Longer - say it loud and proud

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The OtherThommo
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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678457Post The OtherThommo »

The Recruit wrote:Billy is embarrassing

Hickey is a much better footballer...Longer is unfortunately and Ponger
If you're gonna pot someone, it really helps if you can string 'em together.

Kinda "embarrassing" if ya can't.

"Longer is unfortunately and Ponger" - Jesus wept.


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The OtherThommo
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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678459Post The OtherThommo »

carn_sainter wrote:
perfectionist wrote:Michael Gardiner has been the best ruckman we have had in the last 20 years. Had he not done his hammy in the first quarter of GF1, then who knows what might have happened in the last quarter. Before him, Lazar Vidovic was the best in the previous 20 years - and we know what happened to him in the last five minutes of the last H&A game in 1997. Before him, Brian Mynott was our best ruckman, a serviceable player who got better with age and was a Vic representative late in his career, and did what was required in the 1966 GF. Billy does a good job in the ruck and is easily our best option at the moment. We need someone who is 210 cm tall, skilled on both sides and with the pace of Nick Winmar. Should be an easy pick up.

Good post, but i think you're neglecting to mention Peter Spider Everitt who, despite being labelled the ratty Frankston youth he may or may not have been, was an absolute gun. If i could resurrect an ex saints ruckman to join the team now, I'd take Spider
Tick.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678465Post Wayne42 »

The OtherThommo wrote:
The Recruit wrote:Billy is embarrassing

Hickey is a much better footballer...Longer is unfortunately and Ponger
If you're gonna pot someone, it really helps if you can string 'em together.

Kinda "embarrassing" if ya can't.

"Longer is unfortunately and Ponger" - Jesus wept.
maybe he's on the same shite that brought WW to his knees, what is that shite, it's obviously quite potent. :lol: :lol:


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678467Post realdeal »

0 kicks, 6 hb, 2 marks, 30 ho and a 50m penalty.

Is this enough?


The OtherThommo
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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678470Post The OtherThommo »

IluvHarvey wrote:I just don't see it.
Yes he gives 100% all the time but what I see is his 100% is not up to standard.
I still believe we have a better future with Hickey as he gives more around the ground.
Saying that Hickey comes with his own areas that aren't up to standard but a better option in my opinion.
Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.

Plus, Hickey is not physically robust - in, out, in, out - having the skinniest tibia/fibula combo many have seen does not help.

Longer's a combative bugger, and is physically robust. Plus, his stoppage ruckwork is actually pretty good -our clearance numbers, in combination with his 'HO to advantage' numbers suggest he ain't the problem.

Look at his numbers against the 'dominant' big men - they're actually pretty good. Even against Jacobs in Adelaide last week he stood up OK.

And, something else for free - people should go and have a look at Todd Goldstein's progress. I did, last year - up until he was around 24/25, he was a duffer - every stat said so, and his climb from then said those stats were ballpark right - because they got so much better as he went up about 4 notches at 25/26 (he's 29 next month).

Billy ain't the problem, and he is a long way shy of "hopeless".


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678472Post bigcarl »

It's got to be horses for courses with Longer and Hickey. Longer's stronger and more physical, no doubt, but Hickey's the better footballer. There will be match-ups for both.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678485Post BigMart »

In other words both have deficiencies and are not up to it?

Longer is just a s*** footballer!


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678487Post takeaway »

The OtherThommo wrote:
IluvHarvey wrote:I just don't see it.
Yes he gives 100% all the time but what I see is his 100% is not up to standard.
I still believe we have a better future with Hickey as he gives more around the ground.
Saying that Hickey comes with his own areas that aren't up to standard but a better option in my opinion.
Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.

Plus, Hickey is not physically robust - in, out, in, out - having the skinniest tibia/fibula combo many have seen does not help.

Longer's a combative bugger, and is physically robust. Plus, his stoppage ruckwork is actually pretty good -our clearance numbers, in combination with his 'HO to advantage' numbers suggest he ain't the problem.

Look at his numbers against the 'dominant' big men - they're actually pretty good. Even against Jacobs in Adelaide last week he stood up OK.

And, something else for free - people should go and have a look at Todd Goldstein's progress. I did, last year - up until he was around 24/25, he was a duffer - every stat said so, and his climb from then said those stats were ballpark right - because they got so much better as he went up about 4 notches at 25/26 (he's 29 next month).

Billy ain't the problem, and he is a long way shy of "hopeless".

Spot on. The club knows this and that is why he is picked ahead of Hickey. He is stiill young for a ruckman as well, still learning. Hickey is better around the ground, pity they both can't play together - don't think it would work.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678494Post kosifantutti »

The OtherThommo wrote:
Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.

Plus, Hickey is not physically robust - in, out, in, out - having the skinniest tibia/fibula combo many have seen does not help.

Longer's a combative bugger, and is physically robust. Plus, his stoppage ruckwork is actually pretty good -our clearance numbers, in combination with his 'HO to advantage' numbers suggest he ain't the problem.

Look at his numbers against the 'dominant' big men - they're actually pretty good. Even against Jacobs in Adelaide last week he stood up OK.

And, something else for free - people should go and have a look at Todd Goldstein's progress. I did, last year - up until he was around 24/25, he was a duffer - every stat said so, and his climb from then said those stats were ballpark right - because they got so much better as he went up about 4 notches at 25/26 (he's 29 next month).

Billy ain't the problem, and he is a long way shy of "hopeless".
Longer and Goldstein at the same age.
Goldstein is actually two months younger in this comparison but has 44% more disposals and 80% more marks per game.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=O&fid2=O

There's a difference between having plenty of upside and just being no good.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678497Post spert »

Still the only big bloke I've seen that can't take a mark, got outmarked by smaller players last night. Probably need to add a quality ruckman to our shopping list.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678518Post takeaway »

kosifantutti wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:
Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.

Plus, Hickey is not physically robust - in, out, in, out - having the skinniest tibia/fibula combo many have seen does not help.

Longer's a combative bugger, and is physically robust. Plus, his stoppage ruckwork is actually pretty good -our clearance numbers, in combination with his 'HO to advantage' numbers suggest he ain't the problem.

Look at his numbers against the 'dominant' big men - they're actually pretty good. Even against Jacobs in Adelaide last week he stood up OK.

And, something else for free - people should go and have a look at Todd Goldstein's progress. I did, last year - up until he was around 24/25, he was a duffer - every stat said so, and his climb from then said those stats were ballpark right - because they got so much better as he went up about 4 notches at 25/26 (he's 29 next month).

Billy ain't the problem, and he is a long way shy of "hopeless".
Longer and Goldstein at the same age.
Goldstein is actually two months younger in this comparison but has 44% more disposals and 80% more marks per game.

Selective stats. What about hitouts? Billy is better. A lot of things Billy does are not in the stats, he gets around the ground better now and is in the midst of the pack more often than Goldstein making his presence felt.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=O&fid2=O

There's a difference between having plenty of upside and just being no good.
Selective stats. What about hitouts? Billy is better. A lot of things Billy does are not in the stats, he gets around the ground better now and is in the midst of the pack more often than Goldstein making his presence felt.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678521Post kosifantutti »

Billy has an incredible lack of presence in a pack. The biggest bloke there hardly ever gets his hand on the ball.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678527Post To the top »

The Longer supporters have failed to respond to my earlier question

Could we start from game 51 for Longer?

North Melbourne's best - Goldstien

Now for the other 50 of Longer's games please


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678528Post meher baba »

I thought Billy was ok last night. It's quite a dilemma: Hickey is a far better player around the ground, but he's not a top quality ruckman. And we only play one of them in our team, in which case - on the basis that you need the best available man to fill a specialist job - Longer is a justifiable first choice.

We have been much better in the clearance work since Longer came in. It's not just a question of his winning taps, it's also about structure. If I were the coach, I'd leave him there, I think he's earning his pay. Obviously he needs to continue to work hard on the rest of his game, because it's sub-AFL standard at the moment.

It's a shame for Hickey, who is a really good footballer. Could he be developed into a forward or back who can play part-time in the ruck?


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678532Post Joe Bloggs »

Wayne42 wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:
The Recruit wrote:Billy is embarrassing

Hickey is a much better footballer...Longer is unfortunately and Ponger
If you're gonna pot someone, it really helps if you can string 'em together.

Kinda "embarrassing" if ya can't.

"Longer is unfortunately and Ponger" - Jesus wept.
maybe he's on the same shite that brought WW to his knees, what is that shite, it's obviously quite potent. :lol: :lol:
Stay the F*** away from that shite it's obviously bad news.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678539Post takeaway »

kosifantutti wrote:Billy has an incredible lack of presence in a pack. The biggest bloke there hardly ever gets his hand on the ball.
Of course. The biggest bloke in there clears a path for the extractors. His PIP stats are very good.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678540Post Vazelos »

2015- Longer
2016- Hickey
2017- Back to Longer
It's obvious what they are looking for is a bit in one and a bit in the other and whoever gets closest to the final product will be the primary ruckman moving forward form permitting.
I am in the Hickey camp in the sense I want him to become that final product more than Longer.
Neither will stay long term if they are not playing...
Lewis has a contract until 2019..... not sure if this kid is going anywhere..
Holmes looks like he is in trouble and Marshall is the one everyone is excited about.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678593Post loris »

At one passage of play yesterday I thought, 'What are you doing Roo?' When Roo switched play from the flank into the centre and delivered a perfect pass to Longer. Surprise, surprise, Billy took the mark, luckily Roo had better vision than I........ lurking further back was Seb who ran past Billy to receive a perfect handball from him.

Roo really showed confidence in Billy during that passage of play, if Billy had turned it over it was an easy rebound into Norths forward 50. I sure had my heart in my mouth when Roo picked out Longer to kick the ball to I must say.

Well done Billy!!! Good on Roo for showing confidence in lumbering Longer.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678594Post thejiggingsaint »

Full marks for a great post Loris! I'd really love to see Lewis Pierce getting a run in the side. In my humble opinion, Pierce would be a good option in being able to give Longer support in the ruck as well as being a handy big man in the forward line. I can still remember Hickey and Pierce in the same side (V Carlton last season) and giving Kreuzer a god almighty towelling.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678639Post ace »

bigcarl wrote:It's got to be horses for courses with Longer and Hickey. Longer's stronger and more physical, no doubt, but Hickey's the better footballer. There will be match-ups for both.

The big problem is how do you keep them both on the list.
No-one wants to playing regularly in the VFL when another team is prepared to offer regular AFL games.
Ideally you want to have an one playing AFL and then a spare.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678646Post ace »

kosifantutti wrote: Longer and Goldstein at the same age.
Goldstein is actually two months younger in this comparison but has 44% more disposals and 80% more marks per game.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=O&fid2=O

There's a difference between having plenty of upside and just being no good.
The big unspoken in those stats is Longer has less kicks, not because of the number of possessions he has but because he does not have any confidence in his own kicking.
If he were to kick the ball, he could match Goldstein in kicks.
Goldstein had 1 more mark but realisitically neither contributing much in the way of marks.
But Goldstein has become dangerous now because he does mark and marks in dangerous positions.
Longer needs to learn to mark and kick - in other words learn to play footy.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678700Post The_Dud »

Goldstein absolutely toweled Longer up last night, we can't get Hickey back into the team quick enough!


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678703Post meher baba »

The_Dud wrote:Goldstein absolutely toweled Longer up last night, we can't get Hickey back into the team quick enough!
Interesting perspective. The ABC radio commentary team today seemed to be of the unanimous opinion that Goldstein was finished at the Roos.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678704Post Brunswicksainter »

I don't post much on here, but I read through comments regularly and this thread has to be the worst I have ever come across. Billy Longer has been an absolute liability since returning to the team, he is easily the worst player to pull on a saints jumper since the days of charlie gardiner and ryan gamble. He has done nothing positive, via winning a few tap counts in games where we are slaughtered in center clearance numbers.


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Re: Longer - say it loud and proud

Post: # 1678715Post Spinner »

Brunswicksainter wrote:I don't post much on here, but I read through comments regularly and this thread has to be the worst I have ever come across. Billy Longer has been an absolute liability since returning to the team, he is easily the worst player to pull on a saints jumper since the days of charlie gardiner and ryan gamble. He has done nothing positive, via winning a few tap counts in games where we are slaughtered in center clearance numbers.

Please continue not to post.


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