Bring Bruce 'Back'

[Otiman]

After the experiment that sent #2 forward and appeared to have some success, as well as Gilbert holding down the relief ruck role. Josh may have to reinvent himself as a CHB/Swingman.

I can't see him in our forward line with Paddy and Roo in the team.

[White Winmar]

Good suggestion. The Bruce began his career as a defender. Maybe a trip back would revive him. I just can't stop thinking about Jake's highlights reel when he kicked 8 against the dogs. Time to get creative.

[saintspremiers]

Jake loved moving forward and it has merit. As for Bruce in defence - can't see it working. He need to play forward as a foil for Paddy who just needs to clunk up forward and may be our key.

[Joe Bloggs]

A foil for paddy ...otherway round . Bruce is twice the player paddy is at this stage.

[ausfatcat]

A foil for paddy ...otherway round . Bruce is twice the player paddy is at this stage.

who can't get a kick at the moment

[bigcarl]

A foil for paddy ...otherway round . Bruce is twice the player paddy is at this stage.

Both need to play in the forward line after the bye to give us some structure.

Riewoldt on the wing. Stick Acres right in the guts with Steven, Ross and Steele and we are away.

Not sure how far away Hickey is, but he will be a handy addition.

[dragit]

Bruce was terrible in the backline from memory and that's why they threw him forward… his field kicking and decision making is very flaky, you can't afford to have that in the back half.

We really are in a terrible position if we drop Bruce to regain form and he can't get a kick at VFL level yet we still bring him back into the seniors side for "structure".

Much prefer to have a look at Goddard at either end of the ground or Battle/Marshall.

Bruce has been down on form for 18 months now, I think we need to come to terms with the possibility that this is his normal level - a 35 goal forward rather than a 50-60 goal forward that we'd hoped. He's a third tall rather than a #1 target.

[Sainter_Dad]

Plus ... Isn't Jake on record as saying he does not mind the occasional stint forward, but would prefer not to play as a permanent forward?

[Beno88]

As much as Josh's VFL form isn't really demanding AFL selection, he is critical to our structure. Our forward structure wasn't magnificent leading up to his dropping, but it's been pathetic since.

Average scoring shots R1-8 : 28.63
Average scoring shots R9-10 : 16.50

Average score R1-8 : 96.75
Average score R9-10 : 59.00

[bigcarl]

Bruce has been down on form for 18 months now, I think we need to come to terms with the possibility that this is his normal level - a 35 goal forward rather than a 50-60 goal forward that we'd hoped. He's a third tall rather than a #1 target.

He would benefit from having both McCartin and Membrey as marking targets in the same forward line.

You need to put a good player on all three of them, so one gets a lesser opponent. At some stage during the match one of them will get off the leash.

Also, structure shouldn't be underestimated. I feel our guys sometimes are fiddling around waiting for an option, when sometimes - often, in fact - the best option is to get it in there quick.

Benno88's stats above say something to me about the value of structure.

[Saint wagga]

Bruce has been down on form for 18 months now, I think we need to come to terms with the possibility that this is his normal level - a 35 goal forward rather than a 50-60 goal forward that we'd hoped. He's a third tall rather than a #1 target.

He would benefit from having both McCartin and Membrey as marking targets in the same forward line.

You need to put a good player on all three of them, so one gets a lesser opponent. At some stage during the match one of them will get off the leash.

Also, structure shouldn't be underestimated. I feel our guys sometimes are fiddling around waiting for an option, when sometimes - often, in fact - the best option is to get it in there quick.

Benno88's stats above say something to me about the value of structure.

I reckon you've nailed it here!! Neither Bruce or mccartin are good enough to dominate as the no.1 forward and look best with the other in the team to attract defenders, easing the pressure!! I just don't know why we strayed from Bruce mccartin and membrey with roo on the wing, by far our best structure. Mccartin s time in the vfl was a waste of time imo. The more I've seen. He had a couple of quiet weeks, big deal. Dropping him after we beat the lions, just don't get it in hindsight. Bruce really struggled without another tall target but again...he still was kicking 1.5 goals per game!! Should of been stuck with...now the selectors have dug themselves a hole!

My front 6 vs crows please selectors
Gresham mccartin membrey
Weller Bruce billings

No more tinkering ffs, roo on the wing, other small forwards aren't as good as gresh and billings and Weller is best when he gives us 1-2 goals per game, he must kick goals to be effective!!

[bigcarl]

My front 6 vs crows please selectors
Gresham mccartin membrey
Weller Bruce billings

No more tinkering ffs, roo on the wing, other small forwards aren't as good as gresh and billings and Weller is best when he gives us 1-2 goals per game, he must kick goals to be effective!!

Like it

[dragit]

Benno88's stats above say something to me about the value of structure.

I think they say more about us getting comprehensively flogged all over the ground more than they do about structure. Carlisle played forward for the second half against the dogs and we scrounged 4 goals.

If Bruce can only manage 4 kicks, 2 marks and no tackles, then can't get a kick in the VFL then someone else deserves a game. Selection integrity goes both ways.

Marshall sounds like he deserves a look if we need another tall for structure and he would also give us a 2nd ruck option too.

[meher baba]

I suspect the main reason Bruce was dropped was his poor positional play this year: his tendency to keep drawing defenders into the areas inside 50 that Membrey and sometimes Roo were trying to control. And, even worse, he sometimes jumped for the same ball that others were trying to mark, spoiling their efforts.

He really needs to work on that. I think he has a fair bit of talent, but often looks as if he gets a bit carried away on field. He needs to become cooler and more calculating: if he can do that, he'll probably play 200 AFL games.

I'm neutral on whether or not he should come back into the team after the bye: he doesn't really deserve to, but I'd far rather seem him up forward than one of Minchington, Lonie or Wright. It's not like we have a lot of appealing options.

[spert]

Bruce for whatever reason, is badly out of form. Players putting their hands up at Sandy should be only ones to consider, and it would appear Lonie is working hard and quite frankly would be no worse an option than Weller in the forward line right now, and probably better.

I would like to see Jack Steven having a run in the forward line, as right now we are effectively one on-baller down once Jack gets a tag and that means we lose. It may well be time for Richo to put Minch exclusively on the ball for a game or two, as we know at least he can kick the ball well and is more likely to find a teammate by foot than Steven.

Thinking out of the box, I would start a game with Paddy at CHB and put Carlise down at FF for while- I think Paddy needs to really get more involved in general play and really get that defensive side working, a bit more pressure will be a good learning tool.

I was encouraged by Acres late in the game last week- he really did try and run hard and lift, even though the ball went astray- a pity a few of his mates didn't see fit to raise a whimper though. We suffer from a lack of onfield leadership at the moment, and can't leave it all to Roo- others need to step up.

[bigcarl]

Benno88's stats above say something to me about the value of structure.

I think they say more about us getting comprehensively flogged all over the ground more than they do about structure. Carlisle played forward for the second half against the dogs and we scrounged 4 goals.

If Bruce can only manage 4 kicks, 2 marks and no tackles, then can't get a kick in the VFL then someone else deserves a game. Selection integrity goes both ways.

Marshall sounds like he deserves a look if we need another tall for structure and he would also give us a 2nd ruck option too.

We clearly see it differently. Bruce's axeing has coincided with our two worst performances of the year. A forward line lacking in leadership, experience and a hard competitive edge. He'll be back in soon, you can back it in.

Let's leave it at that.

[dragit]

Bruce's axeing has coincided with our two worst performances of the year.

The Melbourne, Brisbane & Carlton games were very ordinary too… but we just managed to scrape past the bottom two sides.

Here's some mystery VFL stats from the weekend, see if you can pick out our superstar key forward who is on 500K

player A - 6 disposals, 1 mark, 2 tackles, 29 hitouts
player B - 12 disposals, 4 marks, 3 tackles, 1 hitout
player C - 1.1 goals, 10 disposals, 3 marks, 1 tackle
player D - 7 disposals, 3 marks, 1 tackle, 3 hitouts
player E - 3 disposals, 4 tackles, 9 hitouts
player F - 6 disposals, 2 marks, 2 tackles

[Sainter_Dad]

I will take Player D - Bruce for $100.00 thanks Alex

[dragit]

I will take Player D - Bruce for $100.00 thanks Alex

Correct Sainter_Dad I hope you didn't look first

[ace]

Jake loved moving forward and it has merit. As for Bruce in defence - can't see it working. He need to play forward as a foil for Paddy who just needs to clunk up forward and may be our key.

When a forward fumbles, drops a mark or misses a target you get a turn over.
When a defender fumbles, drops a mark or misses a target you get a turn over AND goal against.
Forwards need to be creative to outplay their defender but defenders need to be reliable.
Bruce does not have the reliability to be a safe defender like Carlisle.
Bruce needs to be played as a forward.

[ace]

Bruce was terrible in the backline from memory and that's why they threw him forward… his field kicking and decision making is very flaky, you can't afford to have that in the back half.

We really are in a terrible position if we drop Bruce to regain form and he can't get a kick at VFL level yet we still bring him back into the seniors side for "structure".

Much prefer to have a look at Goddard at either end of the ground or Battle/Marshall.

Bruce has been down on form for 18 months now, I think we need to come to terms with the possibility that this is his normal level - a 35 goal forward rather than a 50-60 goal forward that we'd hoped. He's a third tall rather than a #1 target.

Posters complain about McCartin not having a tank, but Goddard has lead weights on his feet.
He makes Ben McEvoy look like Tom Scully.
Goddard needs to do a heap of running before being ready for AFL.

[dragit]

Looks like Sandy play Collingwood this week who are 1-5, so Bruce really should be able to stamp himself on this game and force his way back into the saints lineup, but if he can't get a kick three weeks running at VFL level then he doesn't deserve to playing AFL football until he can turn his form around.

I don't expect him to star, but 4-5 solid marks, 12-15 touches, 2-3 goals, 2-3 tackles should be the bar at VFL level to warrant a call-up to AFL.

[SydneySainter]

Bruce was terrible in the backline from memory and that's why they threw him forward… his field kicking and decision making is very flaky, you can't afford to have that in the back half.

We really are in a terrible position if we drop Bruce to regain form and he can't get a kick at VFL level yet we still bring him back into the seniors side for "structure".

Much prefer to have a look at Goddard at either end of the ground or Battle/Marshall.

Bruce has been down on form for 18 months now, I think we need to come to terms with the possibility that this is his normal level - a 35 goal forward rather than a 50-60 goal forward that we'd hoped. He's a third tall rather than a #1 target.

I'm also starting to think that this is possibility.

Now that the opposition has woken up to him, he may be a second or third tall who's good for 2, sometimes 3 goals a game, but it stops there. Which, if Paddy continues to develop, may still be handy to have in our forward line. He still provides a target and still creates a contest.

[Sainter_Dad]

I will take Player D - Bruce for $100.00 thanks Alex

Correct Sainter_Dad I hope you didn't look first

No the hitouts gave it away

[borderbarry]

I would leave Josh where he is until he plays a reasonable game. But one change I would consider after the break, Rice in, and let our Captain have a go in the midfield. I think he would go alright. Of course Nick's return is a certainty. Now who to leave out for those two?