Positives: McCartin was good

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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1673984Post Linton Lodger »

I was happy with Paddy's game, I have backed him all along and still do. They just need to keep playing him, I doubt he'll get much out of playing VFL. I see no reason why they cannot play Paddy, Bruce & Membrey in the same team, with Riewoldt playing on the wing and going forward when one of the 3 is rotated.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1673988Post BigMart »

That's the obvious set up?

If Paddy did not come into the game in the last quarter... he should have been dropped. But he started providing a good target late... perhaps because the game slowed a bit??


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674025Post bigcarl »

saintsRrising wrote:I know many bag Paddy.

But you can see from the way he plays that he is a smart footballer. Even little things like how he taps the ball to a team mate rather than take possession when he knows he would be tackled (other team mates should emulate this more). He knows when and wear to lead. He is a good marl even if a little down on confidence.

Personally I have no doubt that as his fitness and strength builds that he will become at least a good player, and quite possibly more. This will take a few more seasons of steady improvement.

He is on a slow build, bit that is more common that not for bigger bodied forwards like him.

PS: He could have easily kicked a few more including one early when Gresham slotted in front of Paddy where Gresh dropped an easy mark with Paddy second in line 30m out straight in front.
I agree with your positivity on this. We need to persist with this bloke - there is a lot to like in he way he plays - and take some of the pressure off him by getting a chf into the side. I nominate Josh Bruce.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674048Post Linton Lodger »

BigMart wrote:That's the obvious set up?

If Paddy did not come into the game in the last quarter... he should have been dropped. But he started providing a good target late... perhaps because the game slowed a bit??
He was actually better than Membrey for the whole game. Agreed his final quarter was better, but his first 3 were alright. Its not that the ball was coming down in a half decent manner or speed.

There is no point in dropping him and it isn't warranted.

A few weeks ago Bomber Thompson was talking about Hawkins' formative & frustrating years. However, he continued to play him and make him the focal point of their forward line even when he struggled badly. That's what we need to do, then you watch Paddy when he strings together a few games, aclimitises to the pace and gets some confidence.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674066Post BigMart »

Hawkins a different player... style, size


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674073Post saintsRrising »

BigMart wrote:Hawkins a different player... style, size
Does not matter.

Point is that many key forwards of all shapes, builds, types can and have taken longer.

From Tom Lynch to Hawkins to Patton.

Not all key forwards arrive with a bang.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674079Post Long Term Injury »

I remember fifteen-odd years ago us getting spanked by the bummers (sorry couldn't resist) but one young nick riewoldt showing some signs in the last, kicking a couple. Admittedly, Paddy wasn't as dominant in the last as nick back in the day, but it made me think and above all hope. Talk of getting rid of Paddy is crazy, forwards are rare as hen's eggs, he'll come good, and yesterday was a step in this direction. Onwards and upwards


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674080Post BigMart »

Correct

And I agree, he may turn out a good player

But the concerns are;

Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674093Post CURLY »

BigMart wrote:Correct

And I agree, he may turn out a good player

But the concerns are;

Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
Yet all those things were no issue to 18 clubs in fact he was listed as elite in two if those listed.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674098Post saintsRrising »

There are bigger fish to fry at St Kilda than our future marking forward options.

Elite Mids need to be our major concern.

With Bruce, Membrey, Paddy, Battle and Marshall we have a number of marking targets to work with.

You can win finals with ok forwards. But it is not likely to progress very far without some real quality in your midfield. And we simply do not yet have that top end talent.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674104Post Linton Lodger »

saintsRrising wrote:
BigMart wrote:Hawkins a different player... style, size
Does not matter.

Point is that many key forwards of all shapes, builds, types can and have taken longer.

From Tom Lynch to Hawkins to Patton.

Not all key forwards arrive with a bang.
Actually very few do.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674266Post stonecold »

BigMart wrote:Correct

And I agree, he may turn out a good player

But the concerns are;

Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
Your Concerns, not shared by all, your opinion!!!!!##!!!!!


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674273Post iwantmeseats »

magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674278Post White Winmar »

iwantmeseats wrote:
magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.
It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674280Post stonecold »

White Winmar wrote:
iwantmeseats wrote:
magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.
It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.
+1

Will take time for mids to get full confidence in Paddy as we'll and of course our mids using the ball slot better!!!!!


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674282Post iwantmeseats »

White Winmar wrote:
iwantmeseats wrote:
magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.
It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.

Yeah and whats that tell you about the players mindset towards him? Zero confidence which is a concern.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674284Post stonecold »

iwantmeseats wrote:
White Winmar wrote:
iwantmeseats wrote:
magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.
It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.

Yeah and whats that tell you about the players mindset towards him? Zero confidence which is a concern.
Players confidence at the moment is Zero, full stop, nothing to do with Paddy!!!!!


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674293Post RODOS »

BigMart wrote:Correct

And I agree, he may turn out a good player

But the concerns are;

Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
You're wrong on this one, his speed is good. Watch closer


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674301Post stonecold »

RODOS wrote:
BigMart wrote:Correct

And I agree, he may turn out a good player

But the concerns are;

Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
You're wrong on this one, his speed is good. Watch closer
He just doesn't rate Paddy, so it won't matter what he does!!!!!


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674307Post Wombat15 »

I have always been 50/50 with paddy.
I guess seeing the 3 types of #1 picks weve had and what weve come to expect has clouded my judgement. Roo is a once in a generation footballer and is top 2 #1 picks depending on who you talk to. BJ took a while to get going i remember there was a season he didnt take a contested mark or something of that ilk until late in the season. He copped a bit early on also. Paddy is different again hes built like an old school FF but playing in the modern game.

In Paddy's defense our ball use going inside 50 this year has been absolutely dreadful based on the eye test. On the weekend he was isolated in the 50 on many occasions and had not only Adams wearing him like a glove but had morris floating across him as well. our forward line set up does not benefit him in any way shape or form. In the NBA or NFL you build your system around the strengths of your key players. I.e Paddy needs a couple of small forwards at his feet (Gresh and Wright). He needs a bloke like Membrey to take away a defender and Most definitely needs Bruce to take the 2nd Defender. then you sprinkle a bit of Billings, Minch, Lonie and Weller (if he lifts his work rate and goes back to basics i.e 2013-2015 mav). then you have yourself a system whereby paddy can flourish.
If im going by the games from memory last year that he played well we had that system. Hawks, Dees, Tigers and Pies. This year we had that system against the Eagles, he may have kicked 2.3 but i can live with the kid wanting to put the team on his back.

I am also living with the theory the kid has small man syndrome. not that hes aggressive but he sees himself as smaller and weaker than his opponent. you see him at vfl level he has that browny strut like he owns the effing ground. i want to see that same confidence at the top level. there was a moment in his first season where he rag dolled rance to the ground and won the 1-1 contest. gimme more of that and the marks like the hawks game and youve got a best of an FF. theres also the fact he hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet. I reckon get the ball to him early. if you watched the tom boyd game in the gf he kicked an early one and i thought at the time hes in for a big day here.

In terms of the negatives the workrate and aggression is an issue. weve grown up in an era of Hammil, Hall and Gehrig who were all forwards you didnt want to mess with. but then you see paddy whos this country kid with a big smile doesnt really get you fired up. hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet either which may be causing the yips in front of goal when lining up for number 3.

overall i dont think our forward structure suits him. when membrey goes high 20 gamer paddy gets double teamed (whats he meant to do?). when its only membrey and paddy we dont have the targets to hit if we do go high and long into the 50 (hence the desparate need for bruce). we have the pieces its just a matter of developing a system that can work for 2 talls, 1 mid sized and 3 smalls.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674348Post BigMart »

Speed is good, watched him running through Pre Season

Bruce absolutely burns him! Watched him in the VFL, never gets separation?!

If his speed is good, why can't he get any split??

Riewoldt has good speed.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674575Post The_President »

Go onto the Saints Facebook page and look at the "best bits" video that was posted on the 29th.

It's all the goals we kicked... Paddy is almost involved in all of them.


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674577Post stonecold »

The_President wrote:Go onto the Saints Facebook page and look at the "best bits" video that was posted on the 29th.

It's all the goals we kicked... Paddy is almost involved in all of them.
Yeap indeed, got good separation from Adams on the lead with the goal he kicked, also had separation on several other occasions, but not used!!!!!

Our mids delivery and decision making was terrible, specially Newnes who just kicked it anywhere!!!!!


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674587Post outside66 »

Wombat15 wrote:I have always been 50/50 with paddy.
I guess seeing the 3 types of #1 picks weve had and what weve come to expect has clouded my judgement. Roo is a once in a generation footballer and is top 2 #1 picks depending on who you talk to. BJ took a while to get going i remember there was a season he didnt take a contested mark or something of that ilk until late in the season. He copped a bit early on also. Paddy is different again hes built like an old school FF but playing in the modern game.

In Paddy's defense our ball use going inside 50 this year has been absolutely dreadful based on the eye test. On the weekend he was isolated in the 50 on many occasions and had not only Adams wearing him like a glove but had morris floating across him as well. our forward line set up does not benefit him in any way shape or form. In the NBA or NFL you build your system around the strengths of your key players. I.e Paddy needs a couple of small forwards at his feet (Gresh and Wright). He needs a bloke like Membrey to take away a defender and Most definitely needs Bruce to take the 2nd Defender. then you sprinkle a bit of Billings, Minch, Lonie and Weller (if he lifts his work rate and goes back to basics i.e 2013-2015 mav). then you have yourself a system whereby paddy can flourish.
If im going by the games from memory last year that he played well we had that system. Hawks, Dees, Tigers and Pies. This year we had that system against the Eagles, he may have kicked 2.3 but i can live with the kid wanting to put the team on his back.

I am also living with the theory the kid has small man syndrome. not that hes aggressive but he sees himself as smaller and weaker than his opponent. you see him at vfl level he has that browny strut like he owns the effing ground. i want to see that same confidence at the top level. there was a moment in his first season where he rag dolled rance to the ground and won the 1-1 contest. gimme more of that and the marks like the hawks game and youve got a best of an FF. theres also the fact he hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet. I reckon get the ball to him early. if you watched the tom boyd game in the gf he kicked an early one and i thought at the time hes in for a big day here.

In terms of the negatives the workrate and aggression is an issue. weve grown up in an era of Hammil, Hall and Gehrig who were all forwards you didnt want to mess with. but then you see paddy whos this country kid with a big smile doesnt really get you fired up. hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet either which may be causing the yips in front of goal when lining up for number 3.

overall i dont think our forward structure suits him. when membrey goes high 20 gamer paddy gets double teamed (whats he meant to do?). when its only membrey and paddy we dont have the targets to hit if we do go high and long into the 50 (hence the desparate need for bruce). we have the pieces its just a matter of developing a system that can work for 2 talls, 1 mid sized and 3 smalls.

Best opinion/view on Paddy I've read yet!


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Re: Positives: McCartin was good

Post: # 1674588Post outside66 »

Wombat15 wrote:I have always been 50/50 with paddy.
I guess seeing the 3 types of #1 picks weve had and what weve come to expect has clouded my judgement. Roo is a once in a generation footballer and is top 2 #1 picks depending on who you talk to. BJ took a while to get going i remember there was a season he didnt take a contested mark or something of that ilk until late in the season. He copped a bit early on also. Paddy is different again hes built like an old school FF but playing in the modern game.

In Paddy's defense our ball use going inside 50 this year has been absolutely dreadful based on the eye test. On the weekend he was isolated in the 50 on many occasions and had not only Adams wearing him like a glove but had morris floating across him as well. our forward line set up does not benefit him in any way shape or form. In the NBA or NFL you build your system around the strengths of your key players. I.e Paddy needs a couple of small forwards at his feet (Gresh and Wright). He needs a bloke like Membrey to take away a defender and Most definitely needs Bruce to take the 2nd Defender. then you sprinkle a bit of Billings, Minch, Lonie and Weller (if he lifts his work rate and goes back to basics i.e 2013-2015 mav). then you have yourself a system whereby paddy can flourish.
If im going by the games from memory last year that he played well we had that system. Hawks, Dees, Tigers and Pies. This year we had that system against the Eagles, he may have kicked 2.3 but i can live with the kid wanting to put the team on his back.

I am also living with the theory the kid has small man syndrome. not that hes aggressive but he sees himself as smaller and weaker than his opponent. you see him at vfl level he has that browny strut like he owns the effing ground. i want to see that same confidence at the top level. there was a moment in his first season where he rag dolled rance to the ground and won the 1-1 contest. gimme more of that and the marks like the hawks game and youve got a best of an FF. theres also the fact he hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet. I reckon get the ball to him early. if you watched the tom boyd game in the gf he kicked an early one and i thought at the time hes in for a big day here.

In terms of the negatives the workrate and aggression is an issue. weve grown up in an era of Hammil, Hall and Gehrig who were all forwards you didnt want to mess with. but then you see paddy whos this country kid with a big smile doesnt really get you fired up. hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet either which may be causing the yips in front of goal when lining up for number 3.

overall i dont think our forward structure suits him. when membrey goes high 20 gamer paddy gets double teamed (whats he meant to do?). when its only membrey and paddy we dont have the targets to hit if we do go high and long into the 50 (hence the desparate need for bruce). we have the pieces its just a matter of developing a system that can work for 2 talls, 1 mid sized and 3 smalls.

Best opinion/view on Paddy I've read yet!


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