Is it time to rethink trading and draft priorities?

[White Winmar]

In light of the past couple of weeks it's become apparent we have quite a few holes in the list. I know it's easy to tee off when the side hasn't played well, but I think if we're honest about it, we're nowhere near as good as what some of us, me included, thought we were in the preseason. There have been a couple of positives, but plenty of disappointments as well. Some of the younger brigade haven't come on as expected and it's fairly obvious we still rely on Roo far too much.

I know the general consensus is we need a couple of elite midfielders, and I think that's right. What team couldn't use an extra couple of guns in the middle? Throw Martin and Kelly into about 15 clubs at present and they would almost instantly become a threat. With our unique trading position, we have a chance to go "shopping" very much on our terms. So do we go for the best available, or target specific types?

I suppose Kelly, Fyfe and Martin would be no brainers if we could get any of them, but what after that? Do we make a play for Whitfield, or Rockliffe? It hasn't been mentioned yet, but I think it would be prudent to target another tall forward type. ATM we have McCartin and Bruce, with Roo to spend more time on the wing. He's also close to the end. Members is very much a third tall and may have a future playing Roo's current role once he goes.

That leaves us a bit exposed. Goddard looks destined for defence, and Marshall, while promising, is still an unknown quantity. We have three first round picks at our disposal, given we can trade next year's as potential bait in a trade. I think someone like Peter Wright would be ideal for us. A genuine forward who is also a handy ruckman. That would solve two problems at once. Should we chase Josh Schache? I believe we should. A long term investment that could pay off in spades. Ignore his form this year. He's clearly unhappy up there, and he's not Robinson Crusoe. Sam Reid and Jack Redpath might also be worth a sneaky inquiry.

Thoughts?

[saintspremiers]

Run and gun is so much fun, except manic schizo footy that won us a few games isn't sustainable.

Until Richo gets a plan b we are just mediocre.

Or is there no plan b?

Does plan a work provided we get those extra 4 gun players through FA or trade?

[Johnny Member]

In light of the past couple of weeks it's become apparent we have quite a few holes in the list. I know it's easy to tee off when the side hasn't played well, but I think if we're honest about it, we're nowhere near as good as what some of us, me included, thought we were in the preseason. There have been a couple of positives, but plenty of disappointments as well. Some of the younger brigade haven't come on as expected and it's fairly obvious we still rely on Roo far too much.

I know the general consensus is we need a couple of elite midfielders, and I think that's right. What team couldn't use an extra couple of guns in the middle? Throw Martin and Kelly into about 15 clubs at present and they would almost instantly become a threat. With our unique trading position, we have a chance to go "shopping" very much on our terms. So do we go for the best available, or target specific types?

I suppose Kelly, Fyfe and Martin would be no brainers if we could get any of them, but what after that? Do we make a play for Whitfield, or Rockliffe? It hasn't been mentioned yet, but I think it would be prudent to target another tall forward type. ATM we have McCartin and Bruce, with Roo to spend more time on the wing. He's also close to the end. Members is very much a third tall and may have a future playing Roo's current role once he goes.

That leaves us a bit exposed. Goddard looks destined for defence, and Marshall, while promising, is still an unknown quantity. We have three first round picks at our disposal, given we can trade next year's as potential bait in a trade. I think someone like Peter Wright would be ideal for us. A genuine forward who is also a handy ruckman. That would solve two problems at once. Should we chase Josh Schache? I believe we should. A long term investment that could pay off in spades. Ignore his form this year. He's clearly unhappy up there, and he's not Robinson Crusoe. Sam Reid and Jack Redpath might also be worth a sneaky inquiry.

Thoughts?

I thought we're so far off the pace that we need to use our two picks in the Draft and keep building.

I don't think we're at the stage where 1 superstar will help us much to be honest.

[citywest]

Forget about trading for players. Go to the draft and pick the best available. It might even be worth trading our 2018 first for a 2017 first then we would have 3 first round picks this year to take to the draft.

[SaintPav]

Run and gun is so much fun, except manic schizo footy that won us a few games isn't sustainable.

Until Richo gets a plan b we are just mediocre.

Or is there no plan b?

Does plan a work provided we get those extra 4 gun players through FA or trade?

I still don't understand plan A.

[Johnny Member]

Run and gun is so much fun, except manic schizo footy that won us a few games isn't sustainable.

Until Richo gets a plan b we are just mediocre.

Or is there no plan b?

Does plan a work provided we get those extra 4 gun players through FA or trade?

I'm beginning to believe that the 'plan' is the problem. And that bringing in better players won't change that.

[jonesy]

No point getting two more 18 year olds and waiting 7 years before they're finals ready. We've just gone through 5-6 years of junk putting time into kids,we need the same aged players to come through with the group we've got.
Kelly/Whitfield/Johannison
Grab Rockliff as a FA

[Royston]

Garbage today....not running and presenting forced the stop start, backwards, constant switching.
Missed Roo immensely - his workrate to provide the option is crucial to us transitioning out
of defence.
Webster's kicking also missed.

The skills the last two weeks have been sub-standard and were not far short of giving me a coronary.

Still a fair way off being even a top 4 prospect if you ask me...

[White Winmar]

No point getting two more 18 year olds and waiting 7 years before they're finals ready. We've just gone through 5-6 years of junk putting time into kids,we need the same aged players to come through with the group we've got.
Kelly/Whitfield/Johannison
Grab Rockliff as a FA

That's what I'm alluding to, jonesy. I think we have to throw everything we've got at this draft and trade period. As well as a top FA or even two, add a trade and if we trade a future pick, we might still get two first rounders. That would make five possible A graders in one hit, giving us a much needed boost in class. My main question is, though, instead of loading up on midfielders, should we make another tall forward a priority?

[jonesy]

No point getting two more 18 year olds and waiting 7 years before they're finals ready. We've just gone through 5-6 years of junk putting time into kids,we need the same aged players to come through with the group we've got.
Kelly/Whitfield/Johannison
Grab Rockliff as a FA

That's what I'm alluding to, jonesy. I think we have to throw everything we've got at this draft and trade period. As well as a top FA or even two, add a trade and if we trade a future pick, we might still get two first rounders. That would make five possible A graders in one hit, giving us a much needed boost in class. My main question is, though, instead of loading up on midfielders, should we make another tall forward a priority?

I think we have enough forwards to build around. Got Battle and Marshall on the list to come through yet. Goddard/Carlisle whilst defenders can be more than handy if required to swing. It's all about midfielders and running halfbacks. Once we've got too many good mids,go and get two more

[saintspremiers]

Paddy may become a decent forward with a gun midfield and some
Experienced forwards to support him.

[Vazelos]

I ageee with you jonesey elite mids and class half backs.
Battle and Marshall will come on and Mc Cartin will keep getting better as Membrey and Bruce fight to improve.
Carlisle can play there too if Goddard steps up to take a key back role.
We need class outside ball users that break lines and hit targets.

[Zed]

Forget about trading for players. Go to the draft and pick the best available. It might even be worth trading our 2018 first for a 2017 first then we would have 3 first round picks this year to take to the draft.

Our recruiters have not covered themselves in glory. Haven't really managed to spot better than average talent. Trading for a known quantity may be a better option. Get it wrong at the draft this year and we will be stuck in mid table limbo for the next 3-5 years.

2017 is definitely not 2004.

[saintsRrising]

Forget about trading for players. Go to the draft and pick the best available. It might even be worth trading our 2018 first for a 2017 first then we would have 3 first round picks this year to take to the draft.

Our recruiters have not covered themselves in glory. Haven't really managed to spot better than average talent. Trading for a known quantity may be a better option. Get it wrong at the draft this year and we will be stuck in mid table limbo for the next 3-5 years.

.

Recently (as in with our current recruiting team) I think we have done better our of trading than out of the draft directly.

Pick 5 for Carlise plus a pick (Gresham) is looking
Stevens a cheap acquisition.

Prior to that we were mainly trading for players in of UNKNOWN quality: Longer, Hickey, Bruce, Lee. Results from this as an overall group are not good.

Best available. It sounds simple, but what is this in terms of our recruiting teams? At present our recruiters seem fixated on moneyball picks where they claim afterwards that they were surprised that INSERT NAME lasted this late, and that we could not believe our luck in getting INSERT NAME. High Fives all round.

Gresham is probably the main success in this. Bonus as is the steak knives in the Carlisle deal. however while the Saints said he slipped many Phantom Drafts had him being taken later.

Acres is now showing signs of it. But has the club made too may many such pics?

As it stands for the 2017 draft we should have two picks in the top 12. Maybe 2 in top 8. Odds should be good of gaining two at least good players. with 2 picks odds should be good that one can become a gun...but it would still not be a KNOWN.

I would love Kelly. But will he choose us, and what would the cost be? However the football cost of not having a genuine midfield top gun in our midfield is huge.

[dragit]

We just need to find 4 or 5 gun midfielders, 2 or 3 good forwards, a couple of young key defenders and some half backs with elite skill and pace… plus maybe one really good ruckmen.

[spert]

Not sure how effective Steven is now- obviously just hard tag him, and there's a good chance we will lose. I've been listening to Richo blab on for the last few years about us getting killed by outside run when we lose, and here we are still getting killed by outside run. Some thing isn't being addressed.

[Wombat15]

just a question in regards to drafting. because i do think we are a quick side but certain players are just out of form and still have question marks.
Id say we lack a genuine forward structure. i get the feeling they are still trying to work out how to play Bruce, Membrey and Paddy together. not having bruce today was obviously costly and a giant mistake. hes the workhorse up forward that does the dirty work. Honestly id have those 3 then add gresh and wright then have a mid that rotates through. Mav ive not been a fan of this year as hes trying to do too much (or carrying injury). Also the ruck situation needs to be sorted out. i love puffing billy but his decision making is a killer at times.

I hope we go into the draft and draft best available midfielders. get Cam Rayner, Luke Uniacke Davies, Lochie O'Brien or even Higgins. get games into them early and go from there. Billings is hitting form and showing why we drafted him so high, Ross has kicked on but didnt have a great day today, Paddy i was ready to sell at 3qtr time but he seriously lifted his workrate in the last and i like the fev comparisons and if thats what you get with pick 1 i can live with that.

i am very excited about our future and we are obviously a developing side hitting a plateau at the moment. we have 2 firsts incoming and some exciting youth with; rice, white, battle, marshall & long.

[saintbob]

Surely our recruiters can't still be looking at Fyfe, he has looked very ordinary so far this year and there is no guarantee that he ever recovers fully.

Nathan Brown never fully recovered from a similar injury

[SaintPav]

We just need to find 4 or 5 gun midfielders, 2 or 3 good forwards, a couple of young key defenders and some half backs with elite skill and pace… plus maybe one really good ruckmen.

You forgot we need a new coach

[Sainternist]

Contrary to what the general consensus is about Dusty Martin in this forum, it would be a massive coup for the club to acquire. He was just awesome tonight against Essendon.

Someone like Peter Wright would also be a fantastic acquisition. Goalkicking ruckmen are like gold!

[saintbob]

Steven May and Josh Kelly

[borderbarry]

I am beginning to agree with you SaintPav. Our coaching setup is starting to disappoint.

[SaintPav]

I am beginning to agree with you SaintPav. Our coaching setup is starting to disappoint.

It is BB but was being sarcastic

[citywest]

Forget about trading for players. Go to the draft and pick the best available. It might even be worth trading our 2018 first for a 2017 first then we would have 3 first round picks this year to take to the draft.

Our recruiters have not covered themselves in glory. Haven't really managed to spot better than average talent. Trading for a known quantity may be a better option. Get it wrong at the draft this year and we will be stuck in mid table limbo for the next 3-5 years.

2017 is definitely not 2004.

I agree...that's why I have changed my signature to Mcstake.

[Impatient Sainter]

Think it depends with what 1st round picks the club ends up with as to what occurs at years end.