Is the massive wake up call looming?

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Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673186Post Johnny Member »

I have dire concerns about this week.


Firstly, the Dogs are going small in their forward line this week.

A strength of ours thus far, has been the ability of Brown and Carlisle to negate the big guys from the opposition. It's a luxury we haven't had at the club for a decade and something that in particular hurt us last year.

Interestingly though, we've only improved 1.5 Points Against from last year. So the big guys aren't cutting us up anymore - but we're now giving up goals from other avenues.

Which is why I'm worried about the Dogs dropping Cloke and Redpath. They know we can handle the Redpath's and Cloke's of the world - so they are now going to test us against a small forward line.

If it works - it's the blueprint from hereon in. I fear it will work.


Secondly, we 'revealed our hand' against the Giants, and haven't been able to find other ways to goal.


I expressed concern that after our 'Plan A' for scoring had been so clearly revealed against GWS on the big stage, would we be able to handle the tactics put in place by the opposition to negate it?

"Does Richardson have more than 1 offensive strategy? When we play Carlton next week and they camp 8 blokes in the D50 arc and play tighter on our small forwards after seeing what we did last night, will we find other avenues to goal?"

We currently have an average of 93.5 Points For, which isn't bad. It's in the Top 8 believe it or not. Up from 88.7 last year. However, after the GWS game it was 98.4 - since that game it is has been 76.5.

The Dogs naturally play an 'uber flood'. If we continue to try to 'bomb it in' we will get slaughtered by them. We won't be able to score for a start - and secondly they will murder us on the rebound. That's their bread and butter, and a problem for us.


Thirdly, our depth isn't as great as we thought.

Savage coming in is a problem.

We were a genuine 8th-12th type of team last year when Dunstan and Savage etc. were picked every week. Don't get me wrong, they deserved their spot because there was no one better to take it from them. And that was why we were a 8th-12th team and nothing more. We weren't good enough.

This may sound simplistic and unfair, but if Savage and Dunstan are in our best 22 - then we're not good enough to be in the top 8. I don't think we're good enough to carry these sorts of players, so we will need our best guys on the park every week - which is unrealistic. I can see the Dogs creating the wall in their F50 and with their small forward line simply not letting it back out. Roberton will be tagged and Savage won't be good enough to get it out.


And fourthly, the ruck is a problem.

I can't have Longer. I don't really understand how you can have a ruckman that isn't in the Top 5 for hitouts - yet doesn't get the pill at all (and you actually don't want him to as he doesn't know what to do with it if he ever does get it!) and gets pushed aside in marking contests.

I don't think Holmes is a great player, but he genuinely gets hitouts. If we're going to go in a man short in terms of possessions, then that man must be bringing something to the table at least? I loved his game against Mumford - but Lobb killed him in the same game when he swapped.

I worry about this hurting us this week - even though he's up against a first gamer.





Man I hope I'm wrong.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673195Post Otiman »

On the dogs' small forward line, although it may tie up some rebound defenders (Robbo, Sav) Jake is more than capable of being attacking in that space, and Brown will take the Stringer/Boyd matchup. Gilbert can play tall or small.

Marks inside 50 will be the key for us.

I have no concerns over ruck/clearances.

Our pressure forwards need to be good to hold the ball in.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673198Post axcellence »

Johnny Member wrote:I have dire concerns about this week.

Good analysis. I've had concerns about the game plan as well. Doesn't deal well with teams who can combine clearance and defensive control.

But, there are some positives. The midfield is much much better than last year. Will win clearances against the dogs and no Libba to contend with. Forward presure will be really good as well. The players have been bomby to meet the direction to be aggressive. With no Bruce or Riewoldt, they'll have to be more creative. But yeah, it'll be interesting where the goals will come from losing 2 best KP forwards.

I am more concerned about the loss of Riewoldt. Generally, he is BOG.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673201Post carn_sainter »

Good post, Johnny. All valid concerns.

Regarding the backline, I'd say only Brown can't play small enough and i don't think we're too big as such. Provided there is good pressure, it may be an advantage.

Regarding avenues to goal, this is a massive concern and i am worried about this more than anything. Last week especially, we had no ball movement. This was caused largely by having nothing to kick to, which i can see happening again. The dogs will try choke us like they did in the first game last year and they're every chance.

Regarding Savage and getting it out of the backline, our defenders can win the ball no problems and get time for a kick, but the problem will be that we have nothing to kick to.

Regarding the ruck, Longer will compete and probably win hit outs but is otherwise a liability. Gilbo around the ground has been awesome


We'll win if we can get first hands on the ball and beat their midfield, which is as likely as not, and use the ball precisely and effectively to leading targets, which hasn't been convincingly demonstrated so far this year. Very interesting to see if we can pull it off


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673204Post Con Gorozidis »

I think our game style suits going against the Dogs so I expect a good game.
Teams that like to kick really trouble us.
Will the Dogs figure this out or stick to their normal game?
I expect they will play their usual game.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673206Post saintsRrising »

Ok. I will play the Devils Advocate.
Johnny Member wrote:I have dire concerns about this week.


Firstly, the Dogs are going small in their forward line this week.

A strength of ours thus far, has been the ability of Brown and Carlisle to negate the big guys from the opposition. It's a luxury we haven't had at the club for a decade and something that in particular hurt us last year.

Interestingly though, we've only improved 1.5 Points Against from last year. So the big guys aren't cutting us up anymore - but we're now giving up goals from other avenues.

Which is why I'm worried about the Dogs dropping Cloke and Redpath. They know we can handle the Redpath's and Cloke's of the world - so they are now going to test us against a small forward line.

If it works - it's the blueprint from hereon in. I fear it will work.
Yes small, but not completely small.

Unless Boyd and English only swap with the bench one at least will play forward for large chunks. Most likely both.
Plus there is Stringer who is not small.

On the counter side Carlisle does not have to play 100% back. He can be moved forward or play in the ruck. While the saints have not yet used him in the ruck he played many games in the ruck at the Dons in cluding some at first ruck.

Johnny Member wrote:

Secondly, we 'revealed our hand' against the Giants, and haven't been able to find other ways to goal.


I expressed concern that after our 'Plan A' for scoring had been so clearly revealed against GWS on the big stage, would we be able to handle the tactics put in place by the opposition to negate it?

"Does Richardson have more than 1 offensive strategy? When we play Carlton next week and they camp 8 blokes in the D50 arc and play tighter on our small forwards after seeing what we did last night, will we find other avenues to goal?"

We currently have an average of 93.5 Points For, which isn't bad. It's in the Top 8 believe it or not. Up from 88.7 last year. However, after the GWS game it was 98.4 - since that game it is has been 76.5.

The Dogs naturally play an 'uber flood'. If we continue to try to 'bomb it in' we will get slaughtered by them. We won't be able to score for a start - and secondly they will murder us on the rebound. That's their bread and butter, and a problem for us.
It is interesting that you mention the GWS Game as it was one game where a Plan B was used. We went smaller in our forward line in the last quarter when we dominated. Bruce spent large chunks of the last quarter on the bench.

Though I do agree that the bomb strategy that we have employed a lot this year is not a good one. Perhaps though not playing the extra tall forward is a sign that we will try a different plan. More like that last quarter against GWS.
Johnny Member wrote:
Thirdly, our depth isn't as great as we thought.

Savage coming in is a problem.

We were a genuine 8th-12th type of team last year when Dunstan and Savage etc. were picked every week. Don't get me wrong, they deserved their spot because there was no one better to take it from them. And that was why we were a 8th-12th team and nothing more. We weren't good enough.

This may sound simplistic and unfair, but if Savage and Dunstan are in our best 22 - then we're not good enough to be in the top 8. I don't think we're good enough to carry these sorts of players, so we will need our best guys on the park every week - which is unrealistic. I can see the Dogs creating the wall in their F50 and with their small forward line simply not letting it back out. Roberton will be tagged and Savage won't be good enough to get it out.
While their are questions on Savage's defensive game, his offensive game is very good. He ranks highly for metres gained and for creating scoring options. He has good pace and can break lines with both his run and long kicking.

I assume that he has come in to play as an outside mid and not as a defender. Dmak will stay as the HB.

Effectively the change here is Savage in as an outside mid, and Dunstan out as an inside mid. Acres and Stevens will play more inside time.

Savage is worth trialing in this role as he has the tools to play it.



Johnny Member wrote: And fourthly, the ruck is a problem.

I can't have Longer. I don't really understand how you can have a ruckman that isn't in the Top 5 for hitouts - yet doesn't get the pill at all (and you actually don't want him to as he doesn't know what to do with it if he ever does get it!) and gets pushed aside in marking contests.

I don't think Holmes is a great player, but he genuinely gets hitouts. If we're going to go in a man short in terms of possessions, then that man must be bringing something to the table at least? I loved his game against Mumford - but Lobb killed him in the same game when he swapped.

I worry about this hurting us this week - even though he's up against a first gamer.


Man I hope I'm wrong.
I agree that Longer does not do enough around the ground. But with no Hickey at present there is no real other viable option. It is unfortunate as it is against such ruck opponents that Hickey would be of great value.
Holmes is not a good option.

At least against Boyd and English Longer should be able to win hit outs that create advantage for our mids. Boyd may get off the leash against him in a big way and as such Gilbert and/or Carlisle need to be matching up around the ground with Boyd and not Longer.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673207Post Beno88 »

Johnny Member wrote:
Savage coming in is a problem.



I can't have Longer. I don't really understand how you can have a ruckman that isn't in the Top 5 for hitouts
Savage is in as back up. Webster, our clear first choice is injured. Can't help that.

Longer is 6th for average hit outs. So it's bit rich to knock him for not being in the top five.

We'll go alright this week. The dogs aren't much better than us.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673209Post dragit »

We should win this one and comfortably.

The dogs should be worried about us going in with a small forward line, Savages chiselling balls into Membrey… Gresham and Minch terrorising the old men in Morris & Murphy.

Suckling, Biggs, Dale, Smith, Williams - Spuds galore - then throw in a 205cm 19 year old first gamer :shock: :lol:

Acres to kick 4 goals this week…

Wallis to get the second game blues and they will absolutely regret not playing libba and regret letting Koby Stevens go after he smashes Bont.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673214Post WellardSaint »

dragit wrote:We should win this one and comfortably.

The dogs should be worried about us going in with a small forward line, Savages chiselling balls into Membrey… Gresham and Minch terrorising the old men in Morris & Murphy.

Suckling, Biggs, Dale, Smith, Williams - Spuds galore - then throw in a 205cm 19 year old first gamer :shock: :lol:

Acres to kick 4 goals this week…

Wallis to get the second game blues and they will absolutely regret not playing libba and regret letting Koby Stevens go after he smashes Bont.
Membrey has lost his way this year; has taken only a handful of nice marks but usually he just fumbles or is outmarked.
I don't think Savage can hit him lace-out, but I will be rapt if he does.

Gresh and Minch are much younger, but the 'old men' are as cunning as a sh1thouse rat, and will work them over.

Acres- I refer to his last qtr against GWS where he got into perfect position for his 2 goals, uncontested.
He should float forward more to upset the Dogs.
It made a big difference when we didn't bomb but picked him out twice.

I don't think Koby will smash Bont; Bont is such a classy player, and moves better than Koby.
Koby has been an unreal pickup, and he will get 25-30 touches, but Bont will still hurt us with his ability to do something special.

One thing I mentioned before, is how bloody poor we are at kick-ins.
We either go 25m sideways, and get stuck near the boundary, or the kicker plays on,
then kicks to a group of 8 players, and it comes back with interest.
A team scoring a point against us, knows that we're just keeping the ball warm for their next goal.
Every other team picks out a team-mate 45m up the middle in the clear. Our guys are unable to get clear into space, not sure why.
We should have 2 of our guys stand together on their own, about 45m away, and be the first option for the kicker.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673221Post Darth Vader »

Just win in the midfield and deliver it smart to the forwards. Simple.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673224Post RODOS »

ahh, with the title of this thread it's finally clicked - johnny member is using this forum as a way to practice up for his soon to be doomsday cult! You're doing well johnny, but I think you need more 'personal saviour' kind of stuff. i.e., 'the saints are going to combust and the only person that can save them is ME! Johnny Member!'

don't forget johnny, 1 percent perspiration, 99 percent inspiration. Keep at it!!


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673225Post RODOS »

ahh, with the title of this thread it's finally clicked - johnny member is using this forum as a way to practice up for his soon to be doomsday cult! You're doing well johnny, but I think you need more 'personal saviour' kind of stuff. i.e., 'the saints are going to combust and the only person that can save them is ME! Johnny Member!'

don't forget johnny, 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration. Keep at it!!


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673232Post saintspremiers »

Bergeezes.

It's seems to be either Blue Skies or Thunderstorm Asthma this week....


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673233Post thejiggingsaint »

"Concerned"? Are you having a laugh? Why not wear a Bulldogs scarf and then you're covered for all eventualities :lol: :lol:


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673277Post citywest »

This is by far our weakest team of the year. We are staring down the barrel of a 100 point drubbing this week unfortunately.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673280Post stonecold »

citywest wrote:This is by far our weakest team of the year. We are staring down the barrel of a 100 point drubbing this week unfortunately.
Your staring into something, but im not sure what!!!!!##!!!!!


'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!

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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673281Post WellardSaint »

citywest wrote:This is by far our weakest team of the year. We are staring down the barrel of a 100 point drubbing this week unfortunately.
After beating the Giants, you only made one post, and it wasn't even to pay a compliment.
Were you angry we won, so you couldn't bag our team?


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673284Post citywest »

WellardSaint wrote:
citywest wrote:This is by far our weakest team of the year. We are staring down the barrel of a 100 point drubbing this week unfortunately.
After beating the Giants, you only made one post, and it wasn't even to pay a compliment.
Were you angry we won, so you couldn't bag our team?
Not bagging my team at all. Just calling it as I see it. This week's team is the weakest on paper all year.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673287Post WellardSaint »

citywest wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
citywest wrote:This is by far our weakest team of the year. We are staring down the barrel of a 100 point drubbing this week unfortunately.
After beating the Giants, you only made one post, and it wasn't even to pay a compliment.
Were you angry we won, so you couldn't bag our team?
Not bagging my team at all. Just calling it as I see it. This week's team is the weakest on paper all year.
We beat one of the best teams in the comp, the Giants, and the silence was deafening from your little nest high in the forest canopy.
When the team loses, you swoop down like a demented magpie


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673288Post saynta »

WellardSaint wrote:
citywest wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
citywest wrote:This is by far our weakest team of the year. We are staring down the barrel of a 100 point drubbing this week unfortunately.
After beating the Giants, you only made one post, and it wasn't even to pay a compliment.
Were you angry we won, so you couldn't bag our team?
Not bagging my team at all. Just calling it as I see it. This week's team is the weakest on paper all year.
We beat one of the best teams in the comp, the Giants, and the silence was deafening from your little nest high in the forest canopy.
When the team loses, you swoop down like a demented magpie

Nah, I like magpies, the birds, not the football club.

I would have said vulture.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673291Post bigcarl »

Johnny Member wrote:I have dire concerns about this week.
Afraid I have to agree. The forward line - no Bruce or Riewoldt - looks lacking in hardness, experience and leadership. Maybe they'll swing Carlisle forward but that is a bit of a punt when we have a proven forward in Bruce on the sidelines. Rooey' injured so nothing can be done about that.

Sure Bruce hasn't been fantastic, but you are always guaranteed a contest when you kick to him. Structure like this is very important. The smaller guys feed off it. He's tough and has a big tank.

I'd love Paddy to take this opportunity to really step up but as AFL players go he is really just a beginner. He needs to feel he belongs at this level and he doesn't yet.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673293Post mad saint guy »

Johnny Member wrote:A strength of ours thus far, has been the ability of Brown and Carlisle to negate the big guys from the opposition. It's a luxury we haven't had at the club for a decade and something that in particular hurt us last year.

Interestingly though, we've only improved 1.5 Points Against from last year. So the big guys aren't cutting us up anymore - but we're now giving up goals from other avenues.
On this point, I don't think the stats so far this year give an accurate representation of our improvement in defence. Over the 2016 season we played Carlton, Essendon and Freo twice who were all a rabble. So far we've only come up against Carlton and Brisbane who are non-competitive this season. I think the competition has evened out quite a bit and the easy wins aren't as readily available - I believe the quality of opposition attack has risen and thank god the quality of our defence has as well or we'd be in trouble.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673294Post WellardSaint »

mad saint guy wrote:
Johnny Member wrote:A strength of ours thus far, has been the ability of Brown and Carlisle to negate the big guys from the opposition. It's a luxury we haven't had at the club for a decade and something that in particular hurt us last year.

Interestingly though, we've only improved 1.5 Points Against from last year. So the big guys aren't cutting us up anymore - but we're now giving up goals from other avenues.
On this point, I don't think the stats so far this year give an accurate representation of our improvement in defence. Over the 2016 season we played Carlton, Essendon and Freo twice who were all a rabble. So far we've only come up against Carlton and Brisbane who are non-competitive this season. I think the competition has evened out quite a bit and the easy wins aren't as readily available - I believe the quality of opposition attack has risen and thank god the quality of our defence has as well or we'd be in trouble.
Quite well put.
The Perth game could have been ours if the umps actually had any brains; 2016 we were demolished.
Cats put us to the sword this year, for some strange reason, Richo says the mids were bad, so he didn't blame our back 6.
(behind closed doors, the whole team would have been told to get it together)
Swans killed us due to our crap disposal and picking the wrong options, plus the Swines had studied us carefully.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673296Post saintspremiers »

citywest wrote:This is by far our weakest team of the year. We are staring down the barrel of a 100 point drubbing this week unfortunately.
For some bizarre reason you have "mods protection", but it doesn't mean we don't know what you're really like.

Here's a challenge for you - if we win today, try and make a positive post after the game - that's if you're not too busy watching or attending the Dreamtime match.


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Re: Is the massive wake up call looming?

Post: # 1673299Post Joe Bloggs »

dragit wrote:We should win this one and comfortably.

The dogs should be worried about us going in with a small forward line, Savages chiselling balls into Membrey… Gresham and Minch terrorising the old men in Morris & Murphy.

Suckling, Biggs, Dale, Smith, Williams - Spuds galore - then throw in a 205cm 19 year old first gamer :shock: :lol:

Acres to kick 4 goals this week…

Wallis to get the second game blues and they will absolutely regret not playing libba and regret letting Koby Stevens go after he smashes Bont.
Now I believe.!!!


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