I still reckon we've got a pretty good team to support

[meher baba]

Gee the whinging and wailing on SS after a loss is difficult to take.

We have a great midfield - one of the best in the comp, even without Armo - and it was reasonably dominant yesterday.

Our forward line has sucked for most of the season so far: we don't convert anywhere near enough of our gettable chances inside 50. If we'd done more of that yesterday, the game would have remained close until well into the last quarter and who knows.

We were absolutely woeful at bringing the ball out of defence yesterday. The absence of Webster and Newnes was critical here, along with Weller having an off game/being injured, McKenzie making a lot of mistakes, Joey having a terrible game, and Roberton being heavily targeted and having what I thought was one of his worst games in quite a
while. And, of course, the Swans doing a superb job at outplaying us at our own game of closing off all the avenues out of our defensive 50.

We can fix the defence - eg, in the short-term, by bringing back Savage - which means that the forward line remains our major problem. Unfortunately, Riewoldt is still easily our most damaging forward. I think McCartin can improve and should be left in the team for now. I also agree that Bruce should come back. Maybe Membrey is the logical out for now.

Anyway, I'm not as pessimistic as the rest of you. I think that we can still be a top 4 side this season, or certainly in 2018, if we can fix the forward line, and not experience too many more injuries (two players going down in the first quarter - albeit that Weller later came back at half-strength - was pretty harsh).

A few things struck me again yesterday.

1. The right recipe for the midfield is to have all of Steven, Ross, Steele, Stevens, Newnes and Dunstan (or Armo, if fit) powering through the middle. For so much of the Thomas-Lyon era, and also quite often under Richo, we haven't had enough grunt in the engine room for my liking.

2. How do we fix the forward line? For next week, I'd suggest swapping Membrey for Bruce. Perhaps Riewoldt could then play further forward, and Bruce could play a bit more in the half-forward region. I'd also try sending Acres forward for more of the game: he's tall, reasonably strong and capable of taking contested marks. And he has shown that he can kick straight under pressure.

3. The disappointing performance of McKenzie yesterday demonstrated the potential downside of the "play the youngsters, put some games into them!" approach that seems to be favoured by the majority of St Kilda fans who post on line. The fact is that inexperienced players can often collapse under pressure. With hindsight, we can see that Savage would have been a much better option. However, if Newnes isn't fit for the Dogs, it might be worth playing both Savage and McKenzie, rather than go for yet another less-experienced player in Rice.

Anyway, it's certainly not the end of the world. We could quite easily bounce back against the Dogs. The Swans might have started the season badly due to some injuries, but last season they looked far and away the best team in the comp, and it's easy to forget that their GF loss was a pretty major upset. I reckon that, the way they played yesterday - and have taken a few more of their chances - the Swans would have beaten any of the clubs above us on the table ATM. It's a funny old comp this year: I reckon that the Tigers and the Eagles are not going to be serious contenders by season end, and I'm not too sure about the Cats or the Crows either. But I fancy we'll see the Swans, Dogs and most likely the Giants firing on all four cylinders in the finals. Port and Freo seem to be dark horses as well.

[Linton Lodger]

+1

[Con Gorozidis]

Good post.
I guess yesterday highlighted that we probably over-rate some players (Weller, Montagna) and possibly under-rate some (Webster and Newnes).

I am also wondering about Brandon White. Was the darling of recruiting staff who couldnt wipe the smiles of their faces and stop back slapping each other when we drafted him.

The reality is he is already 20y 4 months and we havent heard a peep from him. Not even close to a debut game.

Maybe just getting drafted was the extent of his ambition? Seems like Bailey Rice is looking closer at this stage.

[loris]

Good post.
I guess yesterday highlighted that we probably over-rate some players (Weller, Montagna) and possibly under-rate some (Webster and Newnes).

I am also wondering about Brandon White. Was the darling of recruiting staff who couldnt wipe the smiles of their faces and stop back slapping each other when we drafted him.

The reality is he is already 20y 4 months and we havent heard a peep from him. Not even close to a debut game.

Maybe just getting drafted was the extent of his ambition?

Wasn't he the one who came back in not so very good shape after the break, when the players returned to training at the end of 2016?

I'm an AFL player, I played one game in 2016 ( sure he played last game in 2016 season) - I've made it!

[Trev from the Bush]

Thank you for the rational words of wisdom.

I had this complete wanker sitting a couple of rows behind me yesterday. All he did was take pot shots at Paddy all afternoon - very lucky he didn't trip and fall from the third level to the boundary line.

[loris]

Thank you for the rational words of wisdom.

.

Agree Trev. IMO meher baba would be one of the best posters on this site. He shows a sound ability to analyse our team and a match oh so rationally. Even in his calm, rational posting style, he can come over as a passionate, enthusiast of the Saints.

meher baba never gets personal with other posters. He gives constructive criticism of the team when necessary, never ever does he take cheap pot shots at players or coaches.

The Saints team have had some good players, administrators that have come out of Tassie.

Our Saintsational team is lucky to have meher baba as one of our Tassie highlights

I assume he is still in Tassie ??????

[BigMart]

Pretty good... Yep.

Most want us to be better than that, we were 'pretty good' in 2016

Yesterday we were disappointing, at best

Can that be acknowledged... Without the claim of whinging. Nothing positive from yesterday's debacle IMO

[Con Gorozidis]

Good post.
I guess yesterday highlighted that we probably over-rate some players (Weller, Montagna) and possibly under-rate some (Webster and Newnes).

I am also wondering about Brandon White. Was the darling of recruiting staff who couldnt wipe the smiles of their faces and stop back slapping each other when we drafted him.

The reality is he is already 20y 4 months and we havent heard a peep from him. Not even close to a debut game.

Maybe just getting drafted was the extent of his ambition?

Wasn't he the one who came back in not so very good shape after the break, when the players returned to training at the end of 2016?

I'm an AFL player, I played one game in 2016 ( sure he played last game in 2016 season) - I've made it!

My mistake. Yes he did play that one good game.
But no longer a 'kid' in footy terms.
Needs to get a wriggle on.

[borderbarry]

I am glad you recognise your mistake Con. Too many posters here dont. Anyway, looking forward to White getting another game shortly and Bailey Rice debuting.. Its been a while since we have had a Father Son in the team.

[meher baba]

Nothing positive from yesterday's debacle IMO

There were some positive things, albeit none of them were entirely new:

1. Our midfield engine room again looked extremely powerful.

2. Billings and Ross had good games yet again. Our top two of elite players (Riewoldt and Steven) is threatening to become a top 4: perhaps even 5, with Roberton.

3. Despite a number of things continuing to go against us - injuries to Newnes and Weller, some questionable calls from the umps and a succession of wasted opportunities inside our forward 50 - we kept hanging in there for a long time: even halfway through the third quarter we still looked like coming back.

4. For the first time since 2011, we are seeing our opponents shaping their game plan to try to counter our strengths. We saw a tag on Roberton for the second week running. We saw the Swans try to minimise stoppages for fear of our strength in the clearances. This is evidence that other teams are starting to take us seriously.

[The_President]

Billings backed up his performance from last week and set a career high in disposals.

[Linton Lodger]

Pretty good... Yep.

Most want us to be better than that, we were 'pretty good' in 2016

Yesterday we were disappointing, at best

Can that be acknowledged... Without the claim of whinging. Nothing positive from yesterday's debacle IMO

Gilbo's game was a huge positive and a real example to the kids who are blessed with more ability than Gilbo.

Billings had a really solid game in a poor team performance, a sign of the growing maturity of a Star.

Adelaide, Geelong, GWS, Sydney, West Coast & Melbourne have all delivered worse performances than ours yesterday on more than one occasion this year, against inferior opposition to our's yesterday.

Its the most even season I have ever witnessed thus far. So if any team is slightly off the boil, they can be smashed, even by inferior opposition. Never, have the four points been so hard to get, week in week out.

Our execution was off yesterday and that was the main problem. Against GWS our execution was really good, as it may be next week.

We still have a young list, so yesterdays loss will keep their feet firmly planted on the ground, if they did get ahead of themselves. That could be a real positive.

I'm backing our boys and Richo to learn from yesterday and be better for it.

[Sainternist]

Well said, MB.

I believe Shane Savage played a good game for Sandy yesterday, so it would seem logical that he be vying for selection. Jimmy Webster has been sorely missing since last week.

[saintsRrising]

Fixing the forward line is not a matter of shuffling different players through it.


The main thing is that tactically how we enter it has been found out. Richo needs to mix it up.


Though yes it would assist in Members regained confidence in his goal kicking and Bruce softer hands when he goes to mark.

Ross has been amazing this year. A star is born. Steele a real find who will get better. But the midfield is not one of the best in the AFL and will not be without another genuine gun or two.

[saintsRrising]

We have a good young list that can finish anywhere from 5th to 12th

[meher baba]

But the midfield is not one of the best in the afl and will not be without another genuine gun or two.

I reckon our midfield has beaten the midfield of 8 out of the 9 teams we have played so far this year: we matched Geelong for three quarters and they clearly beat us in the last, so that was a win for them.

So we can't be too far away from being one of the best! Apart from Steven, who is close, we lack an out and out star like Martin, Dangerfield, J Selwood, Pendlebury, etc. But we have strength in numbers.

[saintsRrising]

So we can't be too far away from being one of the best! Apart from Steven, who is close, we lack an out and out star like Martin, Dangerfield, J Selwood, Pendlebury, etc. But we have strength in numbers.

Yes we are heading in the right direction with the midfield. We are still a rebuilding club.

The long-term rebuilding plan originally mapped out by Pelchen and then taken over and improved under Bains was to in the latter stage to add absolute gun via Free Agency.

It may well need to be via trade now as FA is not quite as easy to gun the guns with now.


That this FA/Trade now needs to be a gun was sealed when the recruitment team elected to take Paddy and not Petracca. A gun mid is now our clear No 1 need and probably still would have been even if we had of picked up Petracca.


However it is easier said than done. Kelly is much in demand and had his dad play at the Roos. Martin and Fyfe would be hard to prize loose. We may well have to settle for a lesser player like a Whitfield.

[Goose is king]

Great post. We had a credit up our sleeves as far as I was concerned so I was never too upset. We need to beat the Bulldogs though

[Sainter_Dad]

Hell Yeah!

[thejiggingsaint]

Very good OP. Like everyone else, I was gutted at the result, and the second half performance in particular, V Sydney Swans. However, we are still in that stage of development where consistently solid performances have not yet been achieved.

This current season reminds me so much of the 2003 season as far as "consistencyof performances" is concerned. Gee, that was a roller coaster if ever there was one. going down to North in round one.... then beating the Adelaide Crows at Docklands. Going down the following week to West Coast in Perth and then Richmond at Docklands. Going on a run of three straight wins (Geelong-Carlton-Bulldogs) coming down to earth with the 60-odd point home loss to Colondud, followed by beating Hawthorn at the G and following THIS up with an epic one-point victory against the rampant Brisbane Lions!

We saw off-field controversy with the dismissals of Capuano (what a waste of space!) and Steve Lawrence (enough said!) It seemed to be a season of "one step forward -two-and-a-half steps back" at times. With great wins West Coast (by a bagful) and heavy losses.

We saw a stalwart of the club sadly showing his age, and rapidly diminishing fitness, departing the stage, Nathan Burke. But with Burke's retirement, we also saw the birth of a new generation of club stalwarts!

I'm not for one moment suggesting that we "accept mediocrity" this season, but please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

2017 is going to be another exciting ( if somewhat toddy-turvey) season. MY suggestion? Fasten your seat belts; take a deep breath; and enjoy the ride!

Go Saints! GO! ( to hell with the rest!)

[saintspremiers]

Crawf reckons we will win a flag within the next 3 years. He may act a clown at times but is a wise footy head. I have faith that we will win a flag by the end of 2020

[Johnny Member]

Don't agree on the midfield bit.

Longer is terrible. Dunstan is woeful. Ross is a gun, Jack is a gun, Steele is decent.


As a result, it's a mediocre midfield overall.

[The Fireman]

Good post.
I guess yesterday highlighted that we probably over-rate some players (Weller, Montagna) and possibly under-rate some (Webster and Newnes).

I am also wondering about Brandon White. Was the darling of recruiting staff who couldnt wipe the smiles of their faces and stop back slapping each other when we drafted him.

The reality is he is already 20y 4 months and we havent heard a peep from him. Not even close to a debut game.

Maybe just getting drafted was the extent of his ambition? Seems like Bailey Rice is looking closer at this stage.

and.......................................

[bigred]

We wilted under pressure somewhat.

Our F50 entries were rushed and just plain horrid. Most of that was due to the very good pressure that Sydney brought. 6 marks inside F50 is an abomination. Especially when it boasts the guys we have.

I am also somewhat concerned by our inability to cover the old Hawthorn game style. Kicking...keep possession etc etc...We just do not cover it well defensively. We had 22 more tackles and just failed to capitalise.

I still think our best is almost as good as anyones, however we are spluttering misfiring every second week. Our win loss flatters us somewhat.

Must beat the dogs now.

Must.

[Johnny Member]

I still think our best is almost as good as anyones....

I don't agree with that.

I think we've conned ourselves, pretty much on the back of the last quarter of the GWS game.

Which in reality, was a scenario in which the odds were stacked heavily in our favor.



If that was our best (which the facts say it is our best) then I think we're kidding ourselves if we think that's as good as anyone's.

Just my opinion though.