The third handball problem

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spert
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The third handball problem

Post: # 1671718Post spert »

Something is becoming obvious- when we get possession the player quickly handballs to move it on, then that receiving player quickly handballs, but the next handball generally goes to a player who is almost under pressure, and the resultant kick has no direction or depth, as that player is being pressured at the point of disposal. If you have time to look at some replays of our wins and losses you will see this over and over and it is really impacting on accuracy and depth of kicks into the forward half. Ban the third handball!


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671792Post ozrulestrace »

After an absence for a very long time, (although have been reading the posts along the way) I'm back and to spert I wholeheartedly agree with you over the third handball or in fact all of the handball.

It's got to the stage if who ever is kicking out from the goal square after a behind is signalled, could handball rather than kick the thing straight down the guts, they would. Keep this rubbish up and one day it will be one kick out, the rest will be handballed down to the other end and Stewie Loewe will jump from over the fence grab the ball and try to handball it into goal.

I remember the adage, you handball out of trouble, not into it.

Is this about no player wanting to take responsibility for kicking the ball, so therefore the answer is to handball to a teammate and hope it's them who kicks the ball?

What ever the issue, is please enough with the handball.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671810Post remboy »

I remember Leigh Matthews making a similar comment about players taking bounces. He said it was ok to take one but any more than that and you were on your because the players up the ground would be out of position and wouldn't know what you were doing next.


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Bluthy
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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671815Post Bluthy »

It's a feature of a lot of teams this year. Guess its copying Doggies handball academy as per usual copying some of the premiers tactics. I suppose the theroy is rather than slam it on your boot where you don't know where it will go, you take a calculated risk to keep hand balling until you can get some clear air. Then you have all the guys around the ball and can run it forward with numbers and precision.

Does feel frustrating watching as you see them handball, handball, handball and you know there is a good chance it will eventually go to a guy who gets tackled. But unless you get holding the ball, what have you lost? Even if you turn it over you have lots of guys around the ball to tackle and try to shut it down. Then you set up for the contest again and back yourself to win the way doggies did.

We had 220 handball to 204 kicks. They had 190 to 241. Probably showed why they were able to cut us up. We're more of run and gun style using risky handballs to move it quickly a bit like the Geelong model. But the danger is you go nowhere and do a lot of turnovers.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671819Post degruch »

I'm generally fine with it, but there is a fine line between pushing the ball forward at all costs and completely unaccountable football. It frustrated the hell out of me finding Dunstan at the end of these chains second guessing and looking for other options, telegraphing his next move in neon letters.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671832Post Bluthy »

degruch wrote:I'm generally fine with it, but there is a fine line between pushing the ball forward at all costs and completely unaccountable football. It frustrated the hell out of me finding Dunstan at the end of these chains second guessing and looking for other options, telegraphing his next move in neon letters.
Steele is a bit the same. They become very flat footed, just standing there waiting for someone to come and almost take the ball from them and it lets defenders ambush them knowing they won't kick. I was critical of Ross who used to do that splayed legged thing too often just handballing backwards but he is more on this toes now with the footy.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671835Post degruch »

Bluthy wrote:
degruch wrote:I'm generally fine with it, but there is a fine line between pushing the ball forward at all costs and completely unaccountable football. It frustrated the hell out of me finding Dunstan at the end of these chains second guessing and looking for other options, telegraphing his next move in neon letters.
Steele is a bit the same. They become very flat footed, just standing there waiting for someone to come and almost take the ball from them and it lets defenders ambush them knowing they won't kick. I was critical of Ross who used to do that splayed legged thing too often just handballing backwards but he is more on this toes now with the footy.
The difference is Steele normally does find a way...although it's tense to watch. Oddly, it was his kicking that was off today...he has a weird style, or a bung leg, one of the two.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671839Post 8856brother »

I'd handball too if I kicked like half of our blokes.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671920Post saintsRrising »

spert wrote:Something is becoming obvious- when we get possession the player quickly handballs to move it on, then that receiving player quickly handballs, but the next handball generally goes to a player who is almost under pressure, and the resultant kick has no direction or depth, as that player is being pressured at the point of disposal. If you have time to look at some replays of our wins and losses you will see this over and over and it is really impacting on accuracy and depth of kicks into the forward half. Ban the third handball!

The problem is that we do not work a player out to be free in space.

Today the Swans mostly hada guy on the outside that they get it to and then they were away.

The Saints by contrast mainly just keep handballing within the scrum till that often get caught.


The last few games it has been pretty obvious that opposition coaches have worked out the St Kilda gameplan and are closing it down.

They know that we want to switch, and so the opposition push much harder which means that rather than create options and space that we just get locked in till we turnover.

When we go forward we roost the ball to contests. (This happens so often it has to be a team tactic rather than forwards not just leading). As both teams play extra men back the opposition have theirs poised to mop up the spoilt ball, that is of course in they do not mark it first. It seems a very low % strategy to me, but this seems to be Richo's preference.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Sat 20 May 2017 11:15pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1671922Post WellardSaint »

saintsRrising wrote:
spert wrote:Something is becoming obvious- when we get possession the player quickly handballs to move it on, then that receiving player quickly handballs, but the next handball generally goes to a player who is almost under pressure, and the resultant kick has no direction or depth, as that player is being pressured at the point of disposal. If you have time to look at some replays of our wins and losses you will see this over and over and it is really impacting on accuracy and depth of kicks into the forward half. Ban the third handball!

The problem is that we do not work a player out to be free in space.

Today the Swans mostly hada guy on the outside that they get it to and then they were away.

The Saints by contrast mainly just keep handballing with the scrum till that often get caught.


The last few games it has been pretty obvious that opposition coaches have worked out the St Klda gameplan and are closing it down.

They know that we want to switch, and so the opposition push much harder which means that rather than create options and space that we just get locked in till we turnover.

When we go forward we roost the ball to contests. (This happens so often it has to be a team tactic rather than forwards not just leading). As both teams play extra men back the opposition have theirs poised to mop up the spoilt ball, that is of course in they do not mark it first. It seems a very low % strategy to me, but this seems to be Richo's preference.
Carlscum worked out our forward tactic of bombing to square.
Docherty kept intercepting our entries. But their defenders are not good enough to prevent our loose, scrappy goals from our mids.
I don't think we get many goals from set shots, and it's sad that grown men play like Under-9's in that crazy manic brainless way


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1672086Post stkfc1 »

WellardSaint wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
spert wrote:Something is becoming obvious- when we get possession the player quickly handballs to move it on, then that receiving player quickly handballs, but the next handball generally goes to a player who is almost under pressure, and the resultant kick has no direction or depth, as that player is being pressured at the point of disposal. If you have time to look at some replays of our wins and losses you will see this over and over and it is really impacting on accuracy and depth of kicks into the forward half. Ban the third handball!

The problem is that we do not work a player out to be free in space.

Today the Swans mostly hada guy on the outside that they get it to and then they were away.

The Saints by contrast mainly just keep handballing with the scrum till that often get caught.


The last few games it has been pretty obvious that opposition coaches have worked out the St Klda gameplan and are closing it down.

They know that we want to switch, and so the opposition push much harder which means that rather than create options and space that we just get locked in till we turnover.

When we go forward we roost the ball to contests. (This happens so often it has to be a team tactic rather than forwards not just leading). As both teams play extra men back the opposition have theirs poised to mop up the spoilt ball, that is of course in they do not mark it first. It seems a very low % strategy to me, but this seems to be Richo's preference.
Carlscum worked out our forward tactic of bombing to square.
Docherty kept intercepting our entries. But their defenders are not good enough to prevent our loose, scrappy goals from our mids.
I don't think we get many goals from set shots, and it's sad that grown men play like Under-9's in that crazy manic brainless way
Spot on. Its lazy football. Bomb it long and hope for the best while at the other end short passes were setting up goals. Our forward line has not worked for a while now and its time to start pointing the finger at the coaches as the players are obviously being told the 'Hail Mary' kick is what we do going forward.
Also agree about the handball scrum and the switch. We are becoming so easy to read as its the same tactics over and over again.. Every team will watch how Sydney set up on us and replicate it as its the blueprint on how to shut us down. The players were down yesterday but the coaches have a bit to answer for as well.


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Re: The third handball problem

Post: # 1672098Post saintsRrising »

stkfc1 wrote:
Spot on. Its lazy football. Bomb it long and hope for the best while at the other end short passes were setting up goals. Our forward line has not worked for a while now and its time to start pointing the finger at the coaches as the players are obviously being told the 'Hail Mary' kick is what we do going forward.
.
It is not so much lazy football, but dumb football and a coach who is too stubborn to realise that his tactic has now been countered.

Our players HAVE to do it as it is the gameplan. I just heard Roo on TV explaining when questioned on it that it had been very effective for the Saints and wasa real weapon.

""Was"" is the operative word. It WAS effective. It no longer is as the opposition jow knows it will happen and counter for it.

Coaches need to keep evolving their gameplan.
- Clarkson has been good at this.
- GT had the Saints looking unbeatable during the streak. But the other clubs then worked out counters.
- Ross with his gameplan.

Richo needs to recognise that the bomb yes was gaining great 30m conversion rates, but has now been worked out and is ad dead as the dodo.


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