Paddy may be back

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Paddy may be back

Postby saintbrat » Wed 17 May 2017 11:12pm

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/t ... 37efdc569b


( but they can't leave Murphy out of the story- headline photo is his tweet release?
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby ace » Wed 17 May 2017 11:39pm

I don't like the idea of dropping Bruce for Paddy.
Bruce will compete all day, but I fear that Paddy will not and that is where we could lose the match.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby Trev from the Bush » Wed 17 May 2017 11:45pm

ace wrote:I don't like the idea of dropping Bruce for Paddy.
Bruce will compete all day, but I fear that Paddy will not and that is where we could lose the match.


Agree. Where did the writer come up with that idea?

I just think he made that up! :roll:
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby Dave McNamara » Thu 18 May 2017 12:27am

ace wrote:I don't like the idea of dropping Bruce for Paddy.
Bruce will compete all day, but I fear that Paddy will not and that is where we could lose the match.

This!!!

They were claiming on SEN this evening too, that there was 'early selection' news. Two of them. I didn't catch the second one, being too distracted by the first which involved us... yep, Paddy in, the Bruce dropped. :shock:

I don't like that one bit. Will significantly reduce our forward line pressure. Added to that, we're already carrying a bloke who can't run, mark, kick, nor even block for his mids - let alone tap a few to their advantage.

For mine, one good Paddy game against the bottom VFL team is not enough to warrant bringing him back. (I do not count that pi$$-poor effort the previous week against a much lighter and shorter... part time footballer.)

I know this won't happen, but I'd be taking Paddy out of all football for the next six-eight weeks - at least. He needs to hit the track, and hit the gym. This lack of fitness and body definition/strength thing has been going on for too long without any significant signs of improving. And it is what's holding Paddy back!!!

IMHO, Paddy is capable of being (at worst) as good a FF as Jay Schultz (whom I rated). But currently, he's more of a liability than a weapon - I'm not expecting overnight miracles, but it's time this starts changing!





Oh, but surely this selection story can't be true!?! Why would we divulge something like that now???
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby RODOS » Thu 18 May 2017 12:56am

Dave McNamara wrote:
ace wrote:I don't like the idea of dropping Bruce for Paddy.
Bruce will compete all day, but I fear that Paddy will not and that is where we could lose the match.

This!!!

They were claiming on SEN this evening too, that there was 'early selection' news. Two of them. I didn't catch the second one, being too distracted by the first which involved us... yep, Paddy in, the Bruce dropped. :shock:

I don't like that one bit. Will significantly reduce our forward line pressure. Added to that, we're already carrying a bloke who can't run, mark, kick, nor even block for his mids - let alone tap a few to their advantage.

For mine, one good Paddy game against the bottom VFL team is not enough to warrant bringing him back. (I do not count that pi$$-poor effort the previous week against a much lighter and shorter... part time footballer.)

I know this won't happen, but I'd be taking Paddy out of all football for the next six-eight weeks - at least. He needs to hit the track, and hit the gym. This lack of fitness and body definition/strength thing has been going on for too long without any significant signs of improving. And it is what's holding Paddy back!!!

IMHO, Paddy is capable of being (at worst) as good a FF as Jay Schultz (whom I rated). But currently, he's more of a liability than a weapon - I'm not expecting overnight miracles, but it's time this starts changing!





Oh, but surely this selection story can't be true!?! Why would we divulge something like that now???


m8, paddy's been on fire in the VFL. He's leading the VFL goal kicking by 25 percent. He kicked 7.3 three weeks back, a couple the week after (very blustery conditions), and won us the game last week with 14 marks (at least half of those contested) and 4 goals 5 - he absolutely monstered coburg's backline, if the ball got to him in the air he marked it. His defensive efforts were good and he ran out the match really well.

Our team has integrity because we reward form. Paddy is in form.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby mad saint guy » Thu 18 May 2017 12:56am

Dropping Paddy for Bruce would be a bad move IMO. That would leave us with just Paddy and Roo as our key forwards (both have poor defensive pressure) and would mean that we'd be one tall short in defence when Gilbert has to ruck. Rest Roo, plonk Paddy at FF and let Bruce be the main target leading higher up the ground. I think it would be very beneficial for Bruce to have more freedom to roam and present up the middle of the ground so he could rack up 8-10 marks for the game and feel more involved.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby bigcarl » Thu 18 May 2017 12:58am

mad saint guy wrote:Dropping Paddy for Bruce would be a bad move IMO. That would leave us with just Paddy and Roo as our key forwards (both have poor defensive pressure) and would mean that we'd be one tall short in defence when Gilbert has to ruck. Rest Roo, plonk Paddy at FF and let Bruce be the main target leading higher up the ground. I think it would be very beneficial for Bruce to have more freedom to roam and present up the middle of the ground so he could rack up 8-10 marks for the game and feel more involved.



I agree, that would be the ideal scenario
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby Dave McNamara » Thu 18 May 2017 1:49am

RODOS wrote:
Dave McNamara wrote:
ace wrote:I don't like the idea of dropping Bruce for Paddy.
Bruce will compete all day, but I fear that Paddy will not and that is where we could lose the match.

This!!!

They were claiming on SEN this evening too, that there was 'early selection' news. Two of them. I didn't catch the second one, being too distracted by the first which involved us... yep, Paddy in, the Bruce dropped. :shock:

I don't like that one bit. Will significantly reduce our forward line pressure. Added to that, we're already carrying a bloke who can't run, mark, kick, nor even block for his mids - let alone tap a few to their advantage.

For mine, one good Paddy game against the bottom VFL team is not enough to warrant bringing him back. (I do not count that pi$$-poor effort the previous week against a much lighter and shorter... part time footballer.)

I know this won't happen, but I'd be taking Paddy out of all football for the next six-eight weeks - at least. He needs to hit the track, and hit the gym. This lack of fitness and body definition/strength thing has been going on for too long without any significant signs of improving. And it is what's holding Paddy back!!!

IMHO, Paddy is capable of being (at worst) as good a FF as Jay Schultz (whom I rated). But currently, he's more of a liability than a weapon - I'm not expecting overnight miracles, but it's time this starts changing!





Oh, but surely this selection story can't be true!?! Why would we divulge something like that now???


m8, paddy's been on fire in the VFL. He's leading the VFL goal kicking by 25 percent. He kicked 7.3 three weeks back, a couple the week after (very blustery conditions), and won us the game last week with 14 marks (at least half of those contested) and 4 goals 5 - he absolutely monstered coburg's backline, if the ball got to him in the air he marked it. His defensive efforts were good and he ran out the match really well.

Our team has integrity because we reward form. Paddy is in form.

Hi RODOS, I can't argue with that philosophy re the importance of 'rewarding form'.

But lets look at that form. Sure, one can only beat the opposition of the day, but, Coburg is on the bottom of the ladder, with a percentage around 50%. That suggests that monstering their backline... is what everyone is doing. Two weeks ago, certainly yes, blustery conditions, but, Paddy was being out-positioned by a part time footballer who was giving up height and 10kgs(!) Hence my pi$$-poor comment.

I realise the issues of controlling IDDM, and also the bad luck Paddy has had with concussions, and the broken collar bone. (He certainly doesn't lack for courage.) I don't expect miracles, and certainly not overnight miracles. But, Paddy has now been in the system for three preseasons. It's not unreasonable to expect to see some visible changes in his body definition. To see some signs of improvement in his fitness level. Despite some of the fanciful pre-season claims that were being made... I'm seeing zero change. (And unfortunately, I ain't Robinson Crusoe on that one.)

The bloke has shown that he as talent. No question. He is not a dud. (Though that fact may make it harder for him to win a B&F. :wink: ) My Schultz comparison, I'd rate as a 'worst case scenario' for Paddy. Yes, I (desperately) wanted Petracca, but now I understand the thinking behind choosing Paddy. And that thinking can be proven to be dead... right. But... not/never-ever, if Paddy doesn't improve his body definition/strength, and his fitness!!!!!!

And another way to look at it... I can't see how it is actually doing Paddy himself any favours to be playing him whilst his body is simply not yet ready for senior AFL footy. I'd argue that us doing so, is actually unfair on Paddy.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby saintspremiers » Thu 18 May 2017 7:01am

saintbrat wrote:http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/st-kilda/paddy-mccartin-will-be-selected-in-st-kildas-team-to-take-on-sydney-on-saturday/news-story/c254cdbc838bb05a92a45e37efdc569b


( but they can't leave Murphy out of the story- headline photo is his tweet release?


McCartin set for Saints recall. Google that folks.

Bratty - please give us the headline title for those of us who don't donate to the Herald Scum!

I assume this is a deliberate leak by the club to both silence any further Murphygate but to also make a statement to Paddy that this is his time. Perhaps he needs Baroose out of the team to give him the space required to do some damage.

Looks like it will be "kick it to Paddy" and what his 50% of non marking contests become are crucial - if he can't bring the ball to his feet for either Gresh, Sinclair or JB to crumb can he provide a second effort equal to that of Baroose?? That's the question.

As for second rucking duties I'm happy for Gilbo to take that role

Another way of looking at is that by dropping Bruce - will that give him the kick up the arse he needs to come back the player we need??
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby #gosaintas » Thu 18 May 2017 7:49am

It's Roo that should go, not Bruce. He's on one leg and is a liability hopping around in the fwd line and is too immobile now for the wing.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby bigcarl » Thu 18 May 2017 8:51am

#gosaintas wrote:It's Roo that should go, not Bruce. He's on one leg and is a liability hopping around in the fwd line and is too immobile now for the wing.


Yep, he needs a rest to get it right.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby BigMart » Thu 18 May 2017 9:14am

Mobility is more (wrt Change of direction) is important in the forward line... running ability (which Roo still has) to get free and play as a connect in space is probably more his go...

I don't believe he can bend or change direction anymore... his top speed, endurance would still be similar.

Paddy has earnt and therefore deserves a recall
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby fugazi » Thu 18 May 2017 9:29am

No way Bruce goes out of this side.
Minch or Roo (knee)
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby BigMart » Thu 18 May 2017 9:33am

Roo has stated... he is not injured, will not be rested.

I wrote off a champion once before, in the want to see more of Armo/Steven in the midfield
He won the B&F
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby The OtherThommo » Thu 18 May 2017 11:13am

Dave McNamara wrote:
ace wrote:I don't like the idea of dropping Bruce for Paddy.
Bruce will compete all day, but I fear that Paddy will not and that is where we could lose the match.

This!!!

They were claiming on SEN this evening too, that there was 'early selection' news. Two of them. I didn't catch the second one, being too distracted by the first which involved us... yep, Paddy in, the Bruce dropped. :shock:

I don't like that one bit. Will significantly reduce our forward line pressure. Added to that, we're already carrying a bloke who can't run, mark, kick, nor even block for his mids - let alone tap a few to their advantage.

For mine, one good Paddy game against the bottom VFL team is not enough to warrant bringing him back. (I do not count that pi$$-poor effort the previous week against a much lighter and shorter... part time footballer.)

I know this won't happen, but I'd be taking Paddy out of all football for the next six-eight weeks - at least. He needs to hit the track, and hit the gym. This lack of fitness and body definition/strength thing has been going on for too long without any significant signs of improving. And it is what's holding Paddy back!!!

IMHO, Paddy is capable of being (at worst) as good a FF as Jay Schultz (whom I rated). But currently, he's more of a liability than a weapon - I'm not expecting overnight miracles, but it's time this starts changing!





Oh, but surely this selection story can't be true!?! Why would we divulge something like that now???


On "this lack of fitness and body definition thing" going on too long, with no sign of improvement, I dissent, Dave.

In amongst some...some similar commentary at BF, post last Sundee, while taking a look around, I came across the following:

“Insulin stimulates receptors found in cell walls, which results in GLUT4 transporters being 'activated' and inserted into the cell wall (they otherwise reside dormant within the cell). Once inserted in the cell wall, GLUT4 assist with glucose crossing the cell wall from your blood into the cell. Glucose is the most basic unit of energy and it is what our food is broken down into.

GLUT4 is highly concentrated in muscle (skeletal AKA the muscles that move you, and cardiac AKA your heart) but also in adipose tissue (fat cells). So when taking insulin, it increases the uptake of glucose into your muscle tissue and in your fat tissue. This is required for the functioning of our muscles, therefore the uptake is a good thing for, well everything. However, glucose being taken up into adipose tissue can be a bad thing since a process called de novo lipogenesis converts glucose into lipids for storage. Whilst fat is a good energy storage mechanism, it can obviously be a bad thing when in excess.
Insulin also has the added effect of blocking the release of fatty acids from fat cells, meaning that energy for activity will be derived almost entirely from glucose (sourced both directly from food consumption, and from glycogen stores, which is glucose being stored in muscle and the liver as a quicker-use energy source than fat).

In short, an improper insulin balance into the surplus can result in too much uptake of glucose into all cells, including fat cells, as well as over inhibition of fat release. Both of these things will result in weight gain and/or difficulty in losing weight. Given that Paddy has managed his diabetes for some time, I doubt that his dosages will be resulting in poor insulin surplus, although it's not impossible. However, even the most perfect insulin supplementation regime will not account for natural variations in the presence of insulin receptors in different cells.
For example, if someone has a high concentration of insulin receptors in their fat cells, relative to their muscle cells, it means more glucose will be taken into their fat cells than a 'normal' person AND there will be more major inhibition of fatty acid release. If this is the case for Paddy, then, as an athlete, his insulin administration will be tailored to the amount required for optimal glucose uptake to his muscle cells. But if his fat cells are either more sensitive to insulin, and/or have a higher ratio of insulin receptors vs his muscle cells, then by taking insulin dosages ideal for his muscle cells, this will inadvertently have the effect of high fat synthesis AND high inhibition of fatty acid release (fat loss).

The body is a wonderful thing with so many natural variations, however this can result in scenarios such as these. By all means, Paddy could just have a poor diet and/or work ethic, but a biological explanation for his weight that is out of his control isn't all that unlikely.”

And, beyond that:

http://www.davesavell.com/p385519833 http://www.davesavell.com/p385519833 http://www.davesavell.com/p385519833

http://www.davesavell.com/p385519833 http://www.davesavell.com/p385519833 http://www.davesavell.com/p612199382

http://www.davesavell.com/p385519833 http://www.davesavell.com/p145381266 http://www.davesavell.com/p145381266

Going on what Richo and others have said, he ain't fat, he ain't lazy - he's just different, partly because his body functions to cope with a deficiency.

No amount of time 'on the track' is likely to give him a stereotypical 'AFL body" (and, what's one of them, anyway?). As the above explanation of the varying impacts of diabetes, on different people, suggests, if you get the fat cells 'right" (for one of dem AFL bodies), you might stuff up his muscle cell function. So, I look at the 'package', and the most significant part of his package that will take him to a successful career is his innate football ability, because he has bundles of that. Keep the muscle cells well fed, and what you have is a power forward with football talent. Yeah, sure, not an endurance athlete, but I rate that lower than the ability to impact because of other strengths.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby The OtherThommo » Thu 18 May 2017 11:26am

This 'Paddy for Bruce', or 'rest Roo', conversation seems to stuck in 2015.

Wasn't the 'plan' for Roo to play more up the ground, to help take the physical pressure off him (and he has continued to lighten off to do just that), while Bruce, McCartin and Membrey get 1st crack as a forward trio?

I reckon one of the reasons Roo looks to be struggling with his pins is the more frequent aerial collisions, particularly now he has less weight to hold his position. As Brereton said, about his early 'finish', it was getting hit side on in aerial duels that wrecked his knees. Knees have less capability to rotate, compared to hips and ankles (they basically go back and forward, not left and right).

And, the pressure on Roo's pins is not being helped by blokes who 'miss' him by foot, when he has separation, or by fellow forwards continually bringing opponents to contests, because they are not working well enough to separate themselves from their forward comrades.

So, why not go back to the 'plan'?
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby dragit » Thu 18 May 2017 11:51am

If Paddy can improve on 7 disposals, 2-3 marks and 1 tackle then he's an upgrade on Bruce who is currently well out of form.

I like to see form rewarded at either end of the scale.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby magnifisaint » Thu 18 May 2017 12:04pm

Looks like Minchington will be dropped, Stevens comes in and probably McCartin in for Webster.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby samoht » Thu 18 May 2017 12:10pm

Paddy and Bruce in the same forward line with Riewoldt chiming in every now and again?
Too many talls?

Membrey at least provides a point of difference - he needs to be in our forward line.

Maybe Paddy could replace Bruce - Paddy has better hands.

Alternate them, now and again - Bruce could play a few games in the VFL?
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby bigcarl » Thu 18 May 2017 12:12pm

The OtherThommo wrote:This 'Paddy for Bruce', or 'rest Roo', conversation seems to stuck in 2015.

Wasn't the 'plan' for Roo to play more up the ground, to help take the physical pressure off him (and he has continued to lighten off to do just that), while Bruce, McCartin and Membrey get 1st crack as a forward trio?

I reckon one of the reasons Roo looks to be struggling with his pins is the more frequent aerial collisions, particularly now he has less weight to hold his position. As Brereton said, about his early 'finish', it was getting hit side on in aerial duels that wrecked his knees. Knees have less capability to rotate, compared to hips and ankles (they basically go back and forward, not left and right).

And, the pressure on Roo's pins is not being helped by blokes who 'miss' him by foot, when he has separation, or by fellow forwards continually bringing opponents to contests, because they are not working well enough to separate themselves from their forward comrades.

So, why not go back to the 'plan'?


ToT, that would be the best solution, but do you think he can play wing on the evidence of the past month? Maybe he can. As BM says, you never write off a champ.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby The OtherThommo » Thu 18 May 2017 12:48pm

bigcarl wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:This 'Paddy for Bruce', or 'rest Roo', conversation seems to stuck in 2015.

Wasn't the 'plan' for Roo to play more up the ground, to help take the physical pressure off him (and he has continued to lighten off to do just that), while Bruce, McCartin and Membrey get 1st crack as a forward trio?

I reckon one of the reasons Roo looks to be struggling with his pins is the more frequent aerial collisions, particularly now he has less weight to hold his position. As Brereton said, about his early 'finish', it was getting hit side on in aerial duels that wrecked his knees. Knees have less capability to rotate, compared to hips and ankles (they basically go back and forward, not left and right).

And, the pressure on Roo's pins is not being helped by blokes who 'miss' him by foot, when he has separation, or by fellow forwards continually bringing opponents to contests, because they are not working well enough to separate themselves from their forward comrades.

So, why not go back to the 'plan'?


ToT, that would be the best solution, but do you think he can play wing on the evidence of the past month? Maybe he can. As BM says, you never write off a champ.


If you look at the last month, 'carl, more often than not, he's looked lamest after pack marking contests, or body pressure from chasing opponents after long and multiple leads.

I just don't reckon he'd have the same problem (as frequently) up the ground. He might have lost some ability to get clear a a forward, but he won't have lost his aerobic capability, nor his football brain.

In other words, if he can't perform up the ground, with less physical pressure, he's sure gonna struggle putting up with a lot more physical pressure as a key forward.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby bigcarl » Thu 18 May 2017 12:55pm

I reckon you are right and also there is no future in playing him as a key forward. Not at the expense of developing a forward line for the next 5-10 years.
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby SemperFidelis » Thu 18 May 2017 1:50pm

The OtherThommo wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:This 'Paddy for Bruce', or 'rest Roo', conversation seems to stuck in 2015.

Wasn't the 'plan' for Roo to play more up the ground, to help take the physical pressure off him (and he has continued to lighten off to do just that), while Bruce, McCartin and Membrey get 1st crack as a forward trio?

I reckon one of the reasons Roo looks to be struggling with his pins is the more frequent aerial collisions, particularly now he has less weight to hold his position. As Brereton said, about his early 'finish', it was getting hit side on in aerial duels that wrecked his knees. Knees have less capability to rotate, compared to hips and ankles (they basically go back and forward, not left and right).

And, the pressure on Roo's pins is not being helped by blokes who 'miss' him by foot, when he has separation, or by fellow forwards continually bringing opponents to contests, because they are not working well enough to separate themselves from their forward comrades.

So, why not go back to the 'plan'?


ToT, that would be the best solution, but do you think he can play wing on the evidence of the past month? Maybe he can. As BM says, you never write off a champ.


If you look at the last month, 'carl, more often than not, he's looked lamest after pack marking contests, or body pressure from chasing opponents after long and multiple leads.

I just don't reckon he'd have the same problem (as frequently) up the ground. He might have lost some ability to get clear a a forward, but he won't have lost his aerobic capability, nor his football brain.

In other words, if he can't perform up the ground, with less physical pressure, he's sure gonna struggle putting up with a lot more physical pressure as a key forward.


He's also been lurking around the backline. He's become quite the everyman.

Doesn't seem to have any problem kicking. Just can't always pick the ball up when it lands below his knees. But then again, why is the ball constantly landing below his knees?
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Re: Paddy may be back

Postby Linton Lodger » Thu 18 May 2017 1:56pm

BigMart wrote:Roo has stated... he is not injured, will not be rested.

I wrote off a champion once before, in the want to see more of Armo/Steven in the midfield
He won the B&F
Won't be doing that again in a hurry


Don't tell me you wrote off Lenny Hayes?
Linton Lodger
Club Player
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm

Re: Paddy may be back

Postby bigcarl » Thu 18 May 2017 1:58pm

Linton Lodger wrote:
BigMart wrote:Roo has stated... he is not injured, will not be rested.

I wrote off a champion once before, in the want to see more of Armo/Steven in the midfield
He won the B&F
Won't be doing that again in a hurry


Don't tell me you wrote off Lenny Hayes?



Never write off a champion :D
bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 15242
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am

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