A win is a win, but.......

[damienc]

Sometimes a win is a win and that’s all it is. It’s not a game of footy where you're going to watch the replay multiple times. Where you re live the highlights in excited conversation.

Sometimes you just bank the four points and move on. I watched yesterday’s game on my phone and I have to say it was a pretty ugly game of footy. We got out of jail thanks to some individual brilliance. But more on that later.

Carlton was a surprise. Carlton is a very good side. They are much, much improved. Like us. The Blues have a really strong and capable backline. Like us. And like us they are only going to get better. So, they were no pushovers. They challenged right to the final siren and we, quite frankly just got over the line.

We made mistakes. Enough to make it infuriating. There is nothing worse than watching us win the hard footy and then throw it away with poor, unthinking disposal. Now there is a word: unthinking. Time and time again we would bang it into the forward line hoping for the best. Our forwards seemed to lack a game plan to overcome a highly organised, high marking Carlton defensive unit. Caleb Marchbank is a real find for them. GWS is the gift that keeps on giving. Some of our game plan, in particular our forward entries and leading pattenrs need urgent attention and correction IMO. I hope it will be corrected. That is the upside of this footy team. They can and will play better. They have to. They need to.

But in terms of individual brilliance we had some shining lights. Jack Billings came of age. If you wanted a reason for taking him at pick 3, he gave it to us yesterday. That was his 50th game and by far his best for the club. When I was young, the half forward flank or thereabouts was known as starvation corner. It wasn’t for someone with the talent of Jack Billings. Thirty possessions and five goals was an extraordinary performance. And the good thing about Jack, the really good thing we’ve not seen his best. He has a huge upside.

Seb Ross. Again. This guy is fast becoming a gun midfielder if he isn’t already.

Another huge game from Jack Steele. A lot of what this guy does, seems invisible. It all happens so quickly you don’t really notice him. But his inside game creates so many opportunities for our outside runners. His stats yesterday included 22 handballs. Says it all. We were so lucky to get him.

I, personally, don’t think Dylan Roberton was at his best yesterday. In fact I think Silvagni had the better of him. If you were to only look at Roberton’s stats then you might conclude he had a pretty good game. 23 possessions. But Roberton likes to run off his opponent and he couldn’t do that with Silvagni who is clever and mercurial. To play on someone like Silvagni you have to revert to the traditional defender’s way of going about things. A negative blanketing role. Doesn’t suit Roberton’s playing style.

I also think Nick needed a rest. Maybe he will get one this week. By Roo’s lofty standards he’s had a pretty ordinary two weeks. Would not be surprised if that knee is troubling him. A week off might be the tonic he needs to freshen up and find his mojo. Maybe another opportunity for Paddy to step up.

With Jimmy Webster’s broken hand, an opportunity has presented itself for Daniel Mackenzie, Brandon White or Bailey Rice. That will be exciting to see. I really rate those three guys.

It might sound like I'm being negative when we won. But we are not playing our best footy. I know we can do better. It’s both frustrating and exciting.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

What we saw from Jack Billings was enough for me . That was sensational.
I hope now he has had that huge breakout game he really goes on with it consistently and sticks it up all the knockers!

Bont Who?

[tony74]

I wouldn't be putting the "but" in. Carlton are a hard team to score against, and are very well coached. Roo is playing a different game to last year and did the job required. We really don't want to rely on any one player anytime. Bailey just might take his opportunity.

[magnifisaint]

Jack Silvagni did stuff all. Alex Silvagni and Docherty were the ones that were given too much freedom in our forward line, along with Simpson.

[Otiman]

I, personally, don’t think Dylan Roberton was at his best yesterday. In fact I think Silvagni had the better of him. If you were to only look at Roberton’s stats then you might conclude he had a pretty good game. 23 possessions. But Roberton likes to run off his opponent and he couldn’t do that with Silvagni who is clever and mercurial. To play on someone like Silvagni you have to revert to the traditional defender’s way of going about things. A negative blanketing role. Doesn’t suit Roberton’s playing style.

With Jimmy Webster’s broken hand, an opportunity has presented itself for Daniel Mackenzie, Brandon White or Bailey Rice. That will be exciting to see. I really rate those three guys.

I think your two points here are very closely related. Roberton and Webster work extremely well together, and almost the sole reason opposition teams can't play a forward defensive tag - as we have 2 players to play the role, and if one is tagged the other steps up. If you tag both then you severely limit your forward structure.

Nobody really stepped into the Webster role, Gilbert played well but in his own way.

Dmac is the obvious inclusion in that space - has been playing well at VFL level and got noted by the coach in the press last week.

[saintspremiers]

I wouldn't be putting the "but" in. Carlton are a hard team to score against, and are very well coached. Roo is playing a different game to last year and did the job required. We really don't want to rely on any one player anytime. Bailey just might take his opportunity.

Agree. They were slow and steady in defence and were annoying for our structure.

I'd love to see the hardness of Ricey for next week. Just what we need down back with Jimmy out.

[Goose is king]

Great post DamienC. I also watched the game on a phone and don't think I will bother with the replay.
As annoyed as I was with the performance I think we have to look at all the upsets last week and last night and just say "we won"

[scallopsroe]

+1, spot on.

[ChrisRyanSaints]

Short memories
2009/2010 we scraped through many games against "lesser" sides.
Elite sport is this sometimes.

It wasnt pretty but with webster down and they scrapping hard taking out our strength of roberton we found a way to overcome it.

Good win and you guys should be happy. Its not always beers and skittles but if you can win these it shows maturity we are building very nicely. Remember we havent spent our picks/cash yet. Melbourne have. Us and melbourne will be right up there this year. Its happening. Enjoy it.

[saintsRrising]

. The Blues have a really strong and capable backline. Like us. And like us they are only going to get better. So, they were no pushovers. They challenged right to the final siren and we, quite frankly just got over the line.

We made mistakes. Enough to make it infuriating. There is nothing worse than watching us win the hard footy and then throw it away with poor, unthinking disposal. Now there is a word: unthinking. Time and time again we would bang it into the forward line hoping for the best. Our forwards seemed to lack a game plan to overcome a highly organised, high marking Carlton defensive unit. Caleb Marchbank is a real find for them..

This is where our coaches and players were surprisingly caught out. Carlton, and Marchbank in particular, have been excellent all year at their intercept marking in their defense all year. That Carlton were good at this should not have taken our players or coaches by surprise. And yet on the day our main method of forward 50 entry was the 'roost"!


As Richo stated post game the Blues marked more of our forward entries than we did.

The 'roost' needs to be a last resort and not the weapon of choice which is what it was against the Blues.

[Jacks Back]

Roo on one leg might still be good but he is still on one leg. When you can't bend over to pick up the ball you (should) know you have problems.

I reckon he needs a rest just to hopefully get that knee sorted out.

If we make the finals then a fit and firing Roo is what we need even though we need Roo to make the finals.

It's the chicken and the egg all over again.

[The Recruit]

I disagree with a few reflections from the game. I was actually at the game and not on a phone screen which can be limiting with what you see big picture.

Smashed them early...Jimmy got hurt and it destroyed our structure. He was the catalyst for 3/4 goals in the first. Montagna went back but when isolated was not great. A few thing went Carltons way early (hands in the back not paid for their first goal) and it fuelled their belief. We were just trying to regain a structure for the second half of the first quarter.

I felt Bolton coached very well aganist us. We did not score from 0-30m all day which we are best in the comp at. The blues have a very good backline and some nice midfielders but that's about it. 30 inside 50s isn't going to win you many games. They scored at 50% from 15 inside 50s at half time which is unheard of.....we were lucky to be in front.....but in and around stoppages we were much better than them.

I felt the bombing stopped after quarter time and they did lower there eyes which kept us in it. Would have been nice to have paddy crashing packs in the second and third as Bruce wasn't getting it done. The forward line was much more competitive in the last and as a result, we defended in our forward 50 much better.

Our biggest problem is our kicking down back and without Webster it is amplified. We really missed Koby's kicking through the middle and I believe Roo and Mav were passengers yesterday. The loss of run from Wright was obvious. Mav isn't as good as wright at the moment

Bottom line our best kicker in the backline didn't play 95% game, we were down a rotation for almost the whole game. Not much went our way for most of the day and we beat a team that hit the front twice. We found a way to win and that was important.

Jack Billings is a star.
Jack Steele is a star
Acres is a star

Carlisle is a fantastic recruit

Bring in Kelly 2018 (36 disposals, 1 goal at 80% yesterday.)

The saints are a pretty good team.

[Johnny Member]

I, personally, don’t think Dylan Roberton was at his best yesterday. In fact I think Silvagni had the better of him. If you were to only look at Roberton’s stats then you might conclude he had a pretty good game. 23 possessions. But Roberton likes to run off his opponent and he couldn’t do that with Silvagni who is clever and mercurial. To play on someone like Silvagni you have to revert to the traditional defender’s way of going about things. A negative blanketing role. Doesn’t suit Roberton’s playing style.

Roberton didn't play on Silvagni.

Silvagni played on Roberton.


It was a tight tag.

[spert]

One thing for sure- the forward line is a mess and the forwards seem to play from behind hoping to take a specie or get the loose ball out the back. Bruce and co need to lead and make space..no wonder the players coming down the ground just bomb it as no one is demanding the ball. For the amount of times the ball entered the forward line, we should have smacked Carlton on the scoreboard. But a win is a win

[Johnny Member]

One thing for sure- the forward line is a mess and the forwards seem to play from behind hoping to take a specie or get the loose ball out the back. Bruce and co need to lead and make space..no wonder the players coming down the ground just bomb it as no one is demanding the ball. For the amount of times the ball entered the forward line, we should have smacked Carlton on the scoreboard. But a win is a win

I don't think the forward line isn't functioning as such.


I think that's our strategy. Put it up to the talls, and for them to bring it to ground and for the smalls to do their thing. This also ties in with the 'flat hands' theory I've been talking about. Bruce basically told us after the game that his job is to not be out marked. To bring the pill to ground as a priority, and let the smalls do their thing. Actually marking the pill is a second thought.

I posted about this after the GWS game. This approach actually ended up working for us against GWS and broke the game open. Once Billings, Gresham and Minchington got off the leash, we scored freely against GWS doing exactly this. I posed the question though that after revealing this strategy so blatantly for all to see, how would we respond when Carlton simply park 18 guys in their D50 to counter it? Well, we saw what happened. They parked 18 guys back there, and we kept putting it down their throats.

We didn't react well at all. And I blame the coaches for that. Not the forwards.

[citywest]

It is very obvious to me that Rooey needs a rest. Why not be smart about it and give him an extended rest and bring him back after the bye. That way he can rest up his knee and freshen up his mind. Then we can give Pady an extended run in the ones. It's a no brainer I reckon and a win win for everyone.

[Linton Lodger]

Don't be picky and make no mistake, that was a good win. Carlton really brought it on, outsmarted us in the first half and we demonstrated patience in taking control of the game. We should have iced it in the third quarter but missed a few opportunities. Given that there are no easy games this year (that's usually a cliche but a fact this year), that was a good solid follow up to last week.

The loss of Webster disrupted us and our big forwards weren't great, but we walk away with four points from a tough game. More than you can say for Adelaide.

[Johnny Member]

It is very obvious to me that Rooey needs a rest. Why not be smart about it and give him an extended rest and bring him back after the bye. That way he can rest up his knee and freshen up his mind. Then we can give Pady an extended run in the ones. It's a no brainer I reckon and a win win for everyone.

I don't think it's a rest he needs as such.

His knee is rooted. Simple. He can't run.


If a rest will help it - then rest him. If a rest won't help, then don't rest.

[citywest]

A rest will always help a bung knee.

[Johnny Member]

A rest will always help a bung knee.

No it won't.

[magnifisaint]

but Big Mart is never happy!

[Trev from the Bush]

Great post DamienC. I also watched the game on a phone and don't think I will bother with the replay.
As annoyed as I was with the performance I think we have to look at all the upsets last week and last night and just say "we won"

This is obviously my weakness. I drove three hours each way and then some, sat in my level three reserve seat and watched the game. When the game was over I was satisfied that we had stood up against an opposition that had pulled out all it could to bring us undone.

I left satsified, except for the knowledge that Carlton supporters made up the majority of the 38,000 at the ground.

My mistake.

I should have stayed home and watched the whole match on a 4 or 5 inch screen and been (slightly) disappointed with our performance!

[BigMart]

Why bring me up Johnny? This really is weird?!

I'd be happy if we won a premiership??

[Trev from the Bush]

It is very obvious to me that Rooey needs a rest. Why not be smart about it and give him an extended rest and bring him back after the bye. That way he can rest up his knee and freshen up his mind. Then we can give Pady an extended run in the ones. It's a no brainer I reckon and a win win for everyone.

I don't think it's a rest he needs as such.

His knee is rooted. Simple. He can't run.


If a rest will help it - then rest him. If a rest won't help, then don't rest.

If it's "very obvious" to citywest then we need to be worried! It's "very obvious" he knows more about Roo's knee than the Club or, indeed, Roo does!

[Con Gorozidis]

I wouldn't be putting the "but" in. Carlton are a hard team to score against, and are very well coached. Roo is playing a different game to last year and did the job required. We really don't want to rely on any one player anytime. Bailey just might take his opportunity.

'Very well coached' means they kicked against us and had 2:1 kicks:handballs.

Same way Melbourne beat us.

If you spread us around the park using kicks - we are beatable.
Teams that handball against us play in to our hands.

Surely everyone knows this by now?
This is what kept Carlton at least hanging in the game - but they never looked all that threatening.