Handball - What the?...

[BigMart]

Why were the midfield over hand balling to the point of ridiculous? Is it because they are slow and need to, or just messing around with it?? Was it because on no forward structure???

215k
205hb

Ross 11k 22hb
Steele 7k 21hb
Dunstan 14k 14hb
Steven 16k 17hb
Acres 7k 14hb

That's 55k 88hb from the mids

And

Others were over doing it too, but can't be bothered looking up numbers...

[Pwoit]

Most frustrating to watch. Ended up being the cause of half of Carltons goals

[perfectionist]

I think the idea is to handball it as many as it takes to lose the ball. I noticed that Footscray did the same thing last night. On the other hand, if you stuff up, because there are still many players around the ball, then it can be nullified with a ball up, whereas a poor kick to the opposition usually results in a goal - as it did 4 times today, that I counted a anyway. Running in packs, handballing to one another does move the ball forward slightly but I'm not sure what the forwards are meant to be doing while it's happening.Handballing until a player has a relatively unpressured kick seems a good tactic and is perhaps what the coach wants. I also like long handballs forward, but you have to be able to execute them. Players like Blake Acres, Jack Steven and Luke Dunstan are not good handballers at all. Seb Ross is probably our best. Jack Steele handballs a lot because he seems afraid to kick - even for goal. I'm glad he made that shot in last quarter, hopefully he'll get some confidence in that regard. His game was very good.

[dragit]

Why were the midfield over hand balling to the point of ridiculous? Is it because they are slow and need to, or just messing around with it?? Was it because on no forward structure???

215k
205hb

Ross 11k 22hb
Steele 7k 21hb
Dunstan 14k 14hb
Steven 16k 17hb
Acres 7k 14hb

That's 55k 88hb from the mids

And

Others were over doing it too, but can't be bothered looking up numbers...

Where are you getting your stats from BM?

I get
Ross 11:20
Steven 17:15

Steele has gone at 1:3 all year, Ross goes 1:1

Billings went 19:11 Montagna 16:11 Roberton 15:8

Maybe the increase was because of good pressure around the ball, the blues led the tackles 66 to our 49

[BigMart]

66 is no great tackle number, with that amount of handballing

80 plus is high end pressure

Billings played outside HF, Roberton and Montagna as running backs who rarely HB anyway. If you're saying we didn't over handball your on drugs... we went at 1:1 ratio which is far from ideal.

You also forgot Acres and Billing and Newnes the outside Wingmen

[The Linton Street Flash]

66 is no great tackle number, with that amount of handballing

80 plus is high end pressure

Billings played outside HF, Roberton and Montagna as running backs who rarely HB anyway. If you're saying we didn't over handball your on drugs... we went at 1:1 ratio which is far from ideal.

You also forgot Acres and Billing and Newnes the outside Wingmen

<removed by mods>

<warning for abuse>

[dragit]

66 is no great tackle number, with that amount of handballing

80 plus is high end pressure

Billings played outside HF, Roberton and Montagna as running backs who rarely HB anyway. If you're saying we didn't over handball your on drugs... we went at 1:1 ratio which is far from ideal.

You also forgot Acres and Billing and Newnes the outside Wingmen

I'm not saying we didn't over handball, I just asked where you made up your stats from as they are different from the actual ones?

There weren't a lot of stoppages today which reduced the overall tackle count, but we were definitely under a lot of pressure which forced more handball than we'd like.

Yaw on drugs man btw.

[BigMart]

So your agreeing by disagreeing

Must be hard to acknowledge something as simple and obvious as that... when it comes from me

Yeah I was 2 off with Jack Steven 15 instead of 17
And I think 2 off with Seb 20 instead of 22

Makes little difference with the theme of the post.

[BigMart]

By the way

They were the numbers quoted on the radio after the game, I just thought they might be correct.

[saintspremiers]

66 is no great tackle number, with that amount of handballing

80 plus is high end pressure

Billings played outside HF, Roberton and Montagna as running backs who rarely HB anyway. If you're saying we didn't over handball your on drugs... we went at 1:1 ratio which is far from ideal.

You also forgot Acres and Billing and Newnes the outside Wingmen

<removed by mods>

<warning for abuse>

Please leave content alone. Understand your warning system but give us some fun!

Anyway our tackle count was low due to it being very high vs GWS. Players needed a break thisneeek from the intense pressure footy

[citywest]

Richo told them to handball at every opportunity this week.

[BringBackMadDog]

Why were the midfield over hand balling to the point of ridiculous? Is it because they are slow and need to, or just messing around with it?? Was it because on no forward structure???

215k
205hb

Ross 11k 22hb
Steele 7k 21hb
Dunstan 14k 14hb
Steven 16k 17hb
Acres 7k 14hb

That's 55k 88hb from the mids

And

Others were over doing it too, but can't be bothered looking up numbers...

Its very simple, Carlton have been playing a very defensive game all year, they consistently roll 2-3 players back inside defensive 50 and wait for the ball to be kicked in which meant that our extra numbers were generally around the ball. When we kicked long inside 50 they outnumbered us and took the intercept mark, this forced us to keep the ball and overuse it until we got it out to someone in space.
As i said, this has been Carlton tactic all year, they lead the comp for intercept marks in defensive 50 and they have been very hard to score against.

[BigMart]

Good observation Mad Dog and correct.

Adjustment in the last quarter... 3 entries were short kicks to Minch who's opponent had rolled back off him, rather than bomb to 25m out to Docherty.

They roll back more behind the ball than any other team.

[To the top]

Not often I concur with BM, but this is an issue.

The ONLY outside runner we have is Steven (hence the importance of Freeman progressing) - plus Acres can take them on.

So is this handballing because of the forward structure (where One plus back had the same effect Brisbane managed) or did it contribute to our ineffective F50 entries?

What it did show is that McCartin needs to play for forward structure because Membrey is mid-field size not KPP size.

[CQ SAINT]

We were out coached again. Luckily this time we proved we are the better team and had a greater desire to win and we are fitter. They congested our forward line and forced us to handball alot in our forward 50.

When we slowed our pace and adjusted our defence they couldnt score and we won. We posted across half foward, nullified their run to defence and got a few longer range goals which made the difference. Our -30m attacks on goal were stumped. We are #1 at that. They are #1 at testricting score from turnover.

Mc Cartin might be a good mark and may soon be better than Roo once the ball hits the ground (due to Roos loss of mobility) but he isnt likely to beat 2 and 3 defenders.

Stevens has also been on fire across half foward and half back and can kick a long goal. Acres Roberton and Steele are better with him in the 22. We also missed the form and set up work Jimmy has provided lately. Dunstan and Weller were average but play completely differently and are both well below their best.

It was an ugly win. 4 ugly points and 2 places up the ladder. Something Hawthorn mastered in recent years and something we have lacked.

A good win none the less.

[BigMart]

Not often I concur?....

I love the need to qualify that first... are you not allowed to agree? Will you lose credibility on SS...

Not often I even notice who posts what... except for the three stalkers, who reply to all my posts..... it's just footy talk

Some right, some wrong, some good, some bad

[Con Gorozidis]

This is very interesting.
For some reason I have watched Melbourne play the last two weeks.
Last week they handballed way too much and basically gifted an ordinary Hawthorn the game.
This week they kicked much more and destroyed Adelaide in Adelaide.
I think over handballing is poor footy and easily defeated by a team that can put pressure on.
Carlton are pretty average but they had a good game plan which was to kick and spread and use the whole ground. That strategy makes our pressure game less effective.
If you go back to Rd 1 you will also see that Melbourne cut us up with their kick and zigzag game.

[saintsRrising]

Yes fully agree that the Saints handballed way too much against the Blues.

I think overall our workrate and intensity was down. Only 49 tackles by the Saints was low. Late in the game workrate went up, and so did the quality of our ball use.

Especially in the first three quarters our players too often took the easy option of the closest handball target or the booming kick forward to the grateful Blues Backmen.

Workrate being down meant our players were not working hard enough to present for kicks, or handballs in the clear.


Just on disposal. I am just loving Sincs game at present. He continually makes the best disposal decision and mainly to team mates in space. One time you could see him go to handball to Billings, but then on realising that Billings had a Blue bearing down on him, he instead switched to another Saint who was in the clear.

[BigMart]

Sinclair is a smart/neat player

[WellardSaint]

Sinclair is a smart/neat player

I love his composure and precision.
And his discipline in defending down back after Webster got injured,
to fill a hole. Saved one goal that I can recall.

He makes a welcome change from our guys blasting away in hope, to a contest.
He's one big reason why our mids are functioning now.
If we had him against Cats or Wet Coke, who knows what difference it would have made.
Throw in Koby as well, and there's 2 wins