Team vs. Blues

[bigcarl]

A bit tough on Wrighty. Roo must be up and about, because I'd have thought Carlton was the perfect week for a little rest if needed ...

If roo was to be rested....it would have been last week...looked sore/tired after double six day break.....should be fresher this week!!

He's a champ's champ. Still valuable the last 2 weeks even though not looking 100%. Never thought we would rest him against the Giants, but looking forward to seeing how he goes this week.

There are no "easy" games for quite a few weeks, although I'd like to see us revisit our recent form at smashijng the Blues.

I'm just stoked we get to have a debate over replacing good players with other good players. In my lifetime we've never had actual depth, what a bloody relief the last few years of recruiting have delivered us.

I would have liked Roo to be rested this week and next week. Play him against the Dogs. He then gets a 2 week rest again with the bye. I would have thought that if we are going to be serious contenders then Roo needs to be properly managed and rested throughout the year - not just for a week or two at the pointy end.

Our defense is one of the best at the moment imo. Robbo and Webster get the benefit of the shut down defenders and along with our ever improving midfield the team is gaining confidence as a unit. Our forwards are working well together and getting good supply and much better delivery than the last few years. All in all, the development of the team is proving we don't rely on Roo and Joey being in the best players each week. In fact, we are not relying on Roo being a matchwinner in 2017

I know Roo has defied all odds in the last 2-3 years and his knees have held up despite the battering and the workload but the reality is that he's not a little bloke like Banger or Boomer. He hasn't played most of his career with a wiry frame like Tuck or Fletcher. At some point in time he has to accept that he is replaceable in the team. The coach cannot allow Roo to continue playing indefinitely if he is hobbling and inneffective. To make the job easier for the committee and coach and for the footy department to have the retirement conversation with Roo, I have no doubt that was the main reason he was asked to relinquish the captaincy.

I believe Richo is doing the right thing by keeping Paddy in the magoos. Paddy needs some hard lessons and he needs to lift his workload to earn a recall. The management of Paddy although is a seperate issue, it is now being suggested in media circles that perhaps Roo playing on in 2018 could be affecting Paddy's development. It also seems to me that with the injury Roo suffered in round 1, perhaps he is not as agile as last year and can't play up the ground as much as he did last year.

Is it in the interest of the St Kilda footy club and the St Kilda team to keep Roo in the forward line instead of Paddy? Hopefully we win the flag this year, Roo gets the Norm Smith, and retires on a high, but what if we make the 8, we go out early, and Roo has no substantial influence in the result? Can Roo realistically take the place of a youngster going forward in 2018 without a detrimental effect in 2019/2020. Is he doing what's best for the club in the years ahead by wanting to sign on in 2018.

Some very good points there Scollop. It's a dilemma no one wants to face. If Rooey is on one leg and hobbling - or has a virus as allegedly was the case last week - he shouldn't be out there, same as anyone else.

And no, it is not in the interests of St Kilda to revert to kick it to Nick. There's no future in it despite the man's standing as one of our all time great champions.

I do agree, though, that Paddy has to earn a recall. If he does start tearing it up consistently in the VFL he must play.

[Bluthy]

Get ready for the hate Scollop. How dare you suggest we examine whether its in the clubs best interest for Roo to play on next year. that is considered treason here with our Cult of the individual Saviour approach of this club (see Locket and Harvey).

Roo decides when he retires NOT the club. I would have thought the club that plays his huge salary would get to decide who they have on their list and what is the best way to win a flag and that would be the smartest approach but apparently not according to those here. I've heard they are going to call the club "ST Roo" from next year onwards.

People don't want to discuss this but one of our biggest reasons for not winning a flag despite AA's all over the field was our one-dimensional "kick-it-to-Roo" forward line. We could never kick enough goals. He tended to take up too much space with his insane running and probably stopped Kosi developing properly as key forward. Roo played 3 grannies and couldn't get it done, not necessarily his fault being tripled teamed. But he wasn't necessarily that bash and crash type that copes well in the congestion of big finals.

The only question is "what is the best way to win a flag?". Look at Hawks - you got to be ruthless and bold to win flags and learn from the past but move on to new eras and new styles.

[meher baba]

Get ready for the hate Scollop. How dare you suggest we examine whether its in the clubs best interest for Roo to play on next year. that is considered treason here with our Cult of the individual Saviour approach of this club (see Locket and Harvey).

Roo decides when he retires NOT the club. I would have thought the club that plays his huge salary would get to decide who they have on their list and what is the best way to win a flag and that would be the smartest approach but apparently not according to those here. I've heard they are going to call the club "ST Roo" from next year onwards.

People don't want to discuss this but one of our biggest reasons for not winning a flag despite AA's all over the field was our one-dimensional "kick-it-to-Roo" forward line. We could never kick enough goals. He tended to take up too much space with his insane running and probably stopped Kosi developing properly as key forward. Roo played 3 grannies and couldn't get it done, not necessarily his fault being tripled teamed. But he wasn't necessarily that bash and crash type that copes well in the congestion of big finals.

The only question is "what is the best way to win a flag?". Look at Hawks - you got to be ruthless and bold to win flags and learn from the past but move on to new eras and new styles.

Well, you've succeeded in deflecting any criticism away from Scollop's post. This is close to being the silliest post I've ever read on here: even worse than some of mine!

The onlly legitimate criticism of Roo is that he has never been able to convert enough of the bountiful harvest of gettable shots on goal that he creates through his sublime marking skills and superhuman aerobic capacity. If he was a more accurate kick, he'd be not just an all-time great but THE all-time great.

But the idea that Roo's style of play hampered our team is just nonsense. We were going great with Roo and Gehrig up forward, and the plan was always that, when Gehrig retired, Kosi would take over. But Kosi was subjected to an onfield criminal assault that - in any professional sport other than AFL - would have led to the perpetrator being banned for life rather than - bizarrely IMO - being applauded by a bunch of retired eminences of the AFL world. (I suspect recruiting Fergus Watts was another strategy for replacing Fraser in the medium term: again, injury ruined that plan.)

With Kosi never able to return to his best, and the team not having the salary cap room to recruit another forward target, Lyon was compelled to adopt a "kick it to Roo" strategy. But Roo didn't convert often enough to carry the team on his own.

One more point: Roo is a club man through and through. I predict that he won't need to be delisted a la North Melbourne: when the right time comes, and he's given a gentle nudge, he will retire. And, while he had a rare off game against GWS, his form this season would get him a game in most, if not all, teams in the comp.

[Scollop]

Bluthy might have also - unintentionally - deflected from the point I was trying to make

I've got a thick hide, and I love a vigorous debate, so basically the issue is one of Roo's value to the team going forward...not whatever Bluthy was on about or what Roo provided to StKilda in years gone by.

I disagree with Bluthy that Roo was one of the biggest reasons we didn't win a flag, in fact he's one of the biggest reasons we were contenders. I also disagree with Bluthy and think that it's silly to say Roo impeded Kosi's development.

Roo has been a champion of modern day footy and one of the biggest names in AFL in the last 10 years. He has given his all for the red white and black and provided our footy club a presence that marketing teams only ever dream of. The value of the service from Roo along with his legacy and his reputation and his association with St Kilda will keep providing benefits to our club in future generations. The only problem I have is that Roo does not easily back down and I believe his competitive nature and his determination and drive could be at odds with what's best for the Saints going forward.

[Bluthy]

Well, you've succeeded in deflecting any criticism away from Scollop's post. This is close to being the silliest post I've ever read on here: even worse than some of mine!

The onlly legitimate criticism of Roo is that he has never been able to convert enough of the bountiful harvest of gettable shots on goal that he creates through his sublime marking skills and superhuman aerobic capacity. If he was a more accurate kick, he'd be not just an all-time great but THE all-time great.

But the idea that Roo's style of play hampered our team is just nonsense. We were going great with Roo and Gehrig up forward, and the plan was always that, when Gehrig retired, Kosi would take over. But Kosi was subjected to an onfield criminal assault that - in any professional sport other than AFL - would have led to the perpetrator being banned for life rather than - bizarrely IMO - being applauded by a bunch of retired eminences of the AFL world. (I suspect recruiting Fergus Watts was another strategy for replacing Fraser in the medium term: again, injury ruined that plan.)

With Kosi never able to return to his best, and the team not having the salary cap room to recruit another forward target, Lyon was compelled to adopt a "kick it to Roo" strategy. But Roo didn't convert often enough to carry the team on his own.

One more point: Roo is a club man through and through. I predict that he won't need to be delisted a la North Melbourne: when the right time comes, and he's given a gentle nudge, he will retire. And, while he had a rare off game against GWS, his form this season would get him a game in most, if not all, teams in the comp.

Oh no. How dare you even suggest that the great golden haired God, maybe, maybe has some flaws to go along with his . Oh no. Its the end of the world! Put dozens of acid covered ants in the heretics eyes! Roo covers too much ground that inhibits other players. And his humiliation of Minch today because he didn't kick a little pass to him was poor. Roo has had a habit of that over his career. Sorry, I know he is perfect in your eyes completely without fault except for some dodgy kicking. Grow up. No player is perfect.

Lyon was compelled to do "kick it to Roo" You are a total clown. Have you never heard of Lynch? What did Lyon do at Freo - "Kick it to Pav". But I guess he was compelled to do that too hey?