Progressing Very Very Nicely

[damienc]

Ok. We have the makings of one helluva footy team. Notice I said makings.

We are not there yet. Sounds slightly absurd I know after demolishing Hawthorn by 75 points.

No. We are not there yet. We can play better than we did in Launceston. That is our upside and it is huge.

I watched the game on Fox so I am giving you my perspective. That was a real pressure game for us to demonstrate that we really are one of the improving sides in the competition. And we did just that. Emphatically. But it was not perfect. Not at all.

Not wishing to sound negative, at times we were wasteful in our disposal. Handballed too much when we should have kicked. And sometimes kicked poorly. But there were also times when we were positively scintillating.

Seb Ross. I just love this kid. Love they way he plays his footy. He was superb for us. Ross is fast developing into one of the best midfielders in the game. He will only get better.

Our defence was magnificent. Brown and Carlisle are great recruiting coups. Anyone who says otherwise knows nothing about footy.

Each week they go to the Opposition's best forward. Each week they get the job done. I've been waiting for Jake to blow off the cobwebs of a year off footy and really show us what he can do. Check the highlights if you can and look at the first goal he kicked for the club. It was an intercept mark and goal off a kick off. Fantastic stuff and a reminder that Jake is more than a defender. He can kick goals and kick them well.

Brown and Carlisle are allowing guys like Roberton and Geary to play their natural games with freedom. Roberton in particular is having a stellar season. He was such a damaging player again on Saturday. He really hurts the opposition with what he does.

Now I want to talk about our midfield monsters. Koby and Jack Steele.

Given his virtually non existent preparation, Koby Stevens should not have been playing.

He missed two games at the start of the year. Played two and starred for the Zebbies and then was injured in the first quarter of Sandringham's game last week.

Our last quarter fade out against the Cats and the fact that we were smashed in contested possessions meant that Koby was thrown in the deep end. He responded magnificently. 28 possessions and two goals. What is more remarkable, it was very apparent he was not at his best. Imagine what he will be like when he is.

And Jack Steele. What a revelation he is. I've been keeping a close eye on him since his debut. At times he has looked as if he hasn't quite picked up the playing style.Having said that he was still picking up 20 possessions each week. On Saturday he was brilliant. This guy can make something out of nothing and frequently does. He is tough and quick and a contested ball monster.

In my view, if we are to have a breakout season in 2017 Koby and Jack Steele must play every game. Let's hope they don't get injured. It was fantastic to have Jack Steven back. Best on the ground in my view.

If this side plays to its full potential, we could go all the way. We have to keep improving. This week will be real test for us. We've got the Giants but we also have many Jacks. They won't need a beanstalk to get the job done.

And just quietly as a postscript.

Paddy finally had the breakout game we were all hoping for and expecting. He kicked 7 for Sandringham. Woo hoo.

[carn_sainter]

It's true that our disposal was still at times poor. Still missing targets in transition and returning the ball to a contest rather than in our possession.

Everything else was spot on. The attack on the ball and the man, as well as the ferocious running and numbers were really excellent. Patterns of ball movement were wonderful, despite being stuffed up every now and then with disposal.

Hawthorn were horrible. Partly because we were excellent, but they did not put up much resistance.

I really liked the first half games of Sinclair & Billings. Though they were quiet, add Gresham and Minchington and that gives 4 very clever, skilled, damaging footballers. The latter two particularly good defensively too.

I really liked the second half of Steele, Stevens & Acres. Koby was in it all game, but became damaging in the second half.

Ross, Newnes & Steven were excellent all game.

The defenders were brilliant. Carlisle is a gem. Roberton is a mix of Sam Fisher & Aussie Jones at the moment. Not as good as either in their prime, but he is in serious form.


My question marks from that game are:

Longer - Tank issue. I prefer Hickey.
Webster - Great defensively, nightmare disposal. It can be neat and even damaging but is far too inconsistent. He lacks the poise of other players in the team. Is brave and tough as nails though. He needs to tidy that up.


As others have said, we have to wait and see how we hold up against real opposition. We did commendably for three quarters against Geelong. Now is a very big test against GWS.

[BigMart]

Perspective

We have beat

Collingwood, Hawthorn and Brisbane - Where are they on the ladder

Even our pre season wins in perspective were not spectacular

[tony74]

Couple of points.
Against arguably the best coaching panel in the league our preparation and implementation was perfect. 100% accolades to the coaching panel. Doesnt always work out that way!
Hawks were deplorable, absolutely deplorable.
We will learn a bit more next week.

[Goose is king]

I think Websters turn overs will diminish as his confidence and belief grow.

[White Winmar]

The great thing about our list is the even spread of talent. I doubt we've ever had this depth, with the possible exception of 2004-5. The thing with the list back then is it had a serious amount of elite talent. That's all this list now lacks. We just have to nail a top FA, or trade for one. One more top kid from the draft as well. Imagine putting a Dusty or a Fyfe in that midfield. Or even Whitfield or Rockliff. That would see us mount a serious challenge. We're in a great position to get it done. I hope they get it right. Our most important trade and draft period since 2000. I'll stick my neck out and nominate a few we have who may get to A grade or elite level. Ross, Gresham, Acres, Carlisle and Billings. Steven is already there, IMHO.

[Saint wagga]

Couple of points.
Against arguably the best coaching panel in the league our preparation and implementation was perfect. 100% accolades to the coaching panel. Doesnt always work out that way!
Hawks were deplorable, absolutely deplorable.
We will learn a bit more next week.

Doesn't the second half of this statement kind of negate the first 1st half?? The Hawks were most certainly pathetic! They were so bad it completely blocked any influence from 'the best coaching panel in the game'...

I agree, we will learn a bit more after this Friday, but I think we sort of know where we are...if we play our best pressure game and execute well, we can match any team in the comp, we may win, we may lose, but we can compete. That's not a surprise! I think the blockbuster Friday night element is something new and something we can learn from, but again, we played some pressure games late last year with finals on the line and twice, swans and Roos, we came up short and once s dogs we rose to the challenge, so again there's not a heap of secrets there, it's just earlier in the season and unquestionably expectations have risen this year. It's a huge game, we can win, we'd need a lot to go right, but it's do able.

Ps the Hawks were so bad yesterday, it was like a training run, zero pressure, so much time and space. You could tell after 5 mins they didn't turn up to play. I'm stoked we got a percentage boost!! But they were earful!!

[Dis Believer]

I think one of the things that came out of this game for us as a team was the big win. Good teams put poor teams to the sword, and find ways to beat better teams. Yesterday we played a poor team and put them to the sword. Things like that help develop the mentality of young players and young teams. And people here still seem to forget that we are a really young team. Take about three or four really old blokes out of that line-up and our average age plummets.

Young players are often sent back to the VFL to rack up big numbers and tear apart a weaker opponent purely for the confidence boost it gives them. The same psychology applies to a young team, their development up to the next level as a team requires them demolish a weak team, so that they can learn and believe what their true level is as a team.

[saintspremiers]

It's great to have a training run where you score 4 points and percentage in the middle of consecutive 6 day breaks. I'm surprised the Foxtel team didn't pick up on this.

[Con Gorozidis]

Let's keep a lid on it.

Lions, Hawks and Pies are all bottom 4 sides.

We were vaguely competitive against the Cats (4th) and Eagles (6th).

This week is the real test.

[SaintPav]

Let's keep a lid on it.

Lions, Hawks and Pies are all bottom 4 sides.

We were vaguely competitive against the Cats (4th) and Eagles (6th).

This week is the real test.

Agree.

But we should enjoy the win too.

We were more than competitive against the Eagles and only lost the lead in the last 5 min. Roo plays and we win

[prwilkinson]

Getting better but pretty much where we're at... middle of the road. Need to add more class to the list at season's end to make the next jump.

[White Winmar]

Getting better but pretty much where we're at... middle of the road. Need to add more class to the list at season's end to make the next jump.

A bit too Richmond like of late. Need a couple of stars.

[prwilkinson]

Getting better but pretty much where we're at... middle of the road. Need to add more class to the list at season's end to make the next jump.

A bit too Richmond like of late. Need a couple of stars.

Funny... whenever St Kilda play average to poor they always remind me of Richmond sides of a decade or so ago... half decent but still pretty shite.

[meher baba]

It's funny to read suggestions that our team is too much like Richmond, because we lack stars. And then also to read that the star we should be attracting to our team as a top priority is a Richmond player.

You know it makes sense.

[White Winmar]

I reckon we're similar , MB. They have Dusty, Rance, cotchin and Jack as their stars. We have Roo, jackie boy, Joey and Carlisle. We pinch one of theirs, it weakens them and strengthens us. Simples. It's because we are similar that makes stealing their gun player even more sensible.

[meher baba]

I reckon we're similar , MB. They have Dusty, Rance, cotchin and Jack as their stars. We have Roo, jackie boy, Joey and Carlisle. We pinch one of theirs, it weakens them and strengthens us. Simples. It's because we are similar that makes stealing their gun player even more sensible.

My definition of "stars" is obviously a bit tougher than yours.

I reckon we have only one clear star, and that's Nick Riewoldt.

Against that sort of standard, Richmond have three stars: Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt. I would rate all three just a little ahead of Jack Steven, who is our next best player after Riewoldt IMO.

Three genuine stars is a reasonable number. It's very rare for any club to have more than 4. The most powerful teams in the 21st century were Brisbane in the early 2000s and Hawthorn more recently. Brisbane had a lot of very good players, but only four genuine stars IMO: Brown, Black, Voss and Akermanis. Hawthorn at its best had Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli and Buddy, plus a lot of really good players: Lewis, Sewell, Roughead, Gibson, Burgoyne, etc.

The current Dogs lineup doesn't really have any out and out stars, so it's not really essential to have any.

[Zed]

Yes we are progressing well. But the Hawks era of success was built on guys who were super efficient with the ball. They won many close games because of their superior ball use. IF we want to go all the way, then thats where we need to get to.

[Johnny Member]

I reckon we're similar , MB. They have Dusty, Rance, cotchin and Jack as their stars. We have Roo, jackie boy, Joey and Carlisle. We pinch one of theirs, it weakens them and strengthens us. Simples. It's because we are similar that makes stealing their gun player even more sensible.

My definition of "stars" is obviously a bit tougher than yours.

I reckon we have only one clear star, and that's Nick Riewoldt.

Against that sort of standard, Richmond have three stars: Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt. I would rate all three just a little ahead of Jack Steven, who is our next best player after Riewoldt IMO.

Three genuine stars is a reasonable number. It's very rare for any club to have more than 4. The most powerful teams in the 21st century were Brisbane in the early 2000s and Hawthorn more recently. Brisbane had a lot of very good players, but only four genuine stars IMO: Brown, Black, Voss and Akermanis. Hawthorn at its best had Hodge, Mitchell, Rioli and Buddy, plus a lot of really good players: Lewis, Sewell, Roughead, Gibson, Burgoyne, etc.

The current Dogs lineup doesn't really have any out and out stars, so it's not really essential to have any.

Bont.
Liberatore.
Morris.
M Boyd.
Johannison.

Genuine A-graders.

[damienc]

I am going to have a grump.

According to some of the people on this forum, Hawthorn was shite. That's why we won.

That's BS. Hawthorn was shite because we made them look shite.

We won because we were very good. Occasionally during the afternoon, particularly during the third quarter, we were great.

Come on. Credit where credit is due. We have been good in parts in all six games we've played this year. Just not for four quarters. Sadly. Today we were good for four quarters.

Our blokes deserve some credit FFS. There endeth the rant.

[Johnny Member]

I am going to have a grump.

According to some of the people on this forum, Hawthorn was shite. That's why we won.

That's BS. Hawthorn was shite because we made them look shite.

We won because we were very good. Occasionally during the afternoon, particularly during the third quarter, we were great.

Come on. Credit where credit is due. We have been good in parts in all six games we've played this year. Just not for four quarters. Sadly. Today we were good for four quarters.

Our blokes deserve some credit FFS. There endeth the rant.

Disagree.

Hawthorn were nothing more than witches hats.



We weren't terrible, but I honestly dont think we can read too much into that result.

[meher baba]

Bont.
Liberatore.
Morris.
M Boyd.
Johannison.

Genuine A-graders.

I think I should probably accept that the Bont is now a star. I agree the others you've named are A-graders. And there are a half a dozen more in the Bulldogs lineup who I think are pretty bloody good too.

But we've got a dozen players right now who could develop into being as good as any of the Bulldogs' current lineup. The point is that the Bulldogs developed their winning lists themselves. They didn't go out and trade away all their draft picks for established stars.

[Johnny Member]

Bont.
Liberatore.
Morris.
M Boyd.
Johannison.

Genuine A-graders.

I think I should probably accept that the Bont is now a star. I agree the others you've named are A-graders. And there are a half a dozen more in the Bulldogs lineup who I think are pretty bloody good too.

But we've got a dozen players right now who could develop into being as good as any of the Bulldogs' current lineup. The point is that the Bulldogs developed their winning lists themselves. They didn't go out and trade away all their draft picks for established stars.

Sure.

But at some point we'll need to accept that no one on our list is going to be that superstar that we need, and then make a call as to whether we trade for it, or keep trying in the draft.

FWIW, I dont think one star will be enough. The gap between us and the best is too far. I think we need to keep drafting.

[meher baba]

Re how we're going.

I think we are heading along ok. It's always a good sign when there are players going well in the VFL who can't get a spot in the top team. We haven't had that luxury for a few seasons, but we're thereabouts now.

Before we start dreaming too much of getting our hands on Dustin Martin or the like, let's just imagine that some of our younger players start to lift as the season progresses. McCartin is the obvious one, but I'd also look at McKenzie, Wright and perhaps Sinclair. And perhaps Billings too, although I'm lost a bit of faith in him.

And I reckon Gresham and Acres can do a helluvva lot better than they've done so far. And Membrey - who was great last year - can certainly do a hell of a lot better than he has done so far this year. (I'm less confident about Bruce making it in the long run.)

We're a team with a fair bit of improvement left in us. So there are reasons for optimism.

[Con Gorozidis]

The Bont is something else. Clearly a star and tough to boot. So confident he now picks fights with Mumford.
Remember last year teams thought they could rough the Bont up? They tried and failed. The bloke is an Alpha male lets face it. A genuine Big Dog of the comp.