How many time how many excuses???

[Saintmatt]

Saints at the moment are a quick team, however this comes at a cost. They are not as big bodied as some other teams. Against both West Coast and Geelong the big bodies smashed and crashed through leaving the Saints in their wake.

Saints need some bigger bodies around the contest. It will be the only way to progress deep into the finals

Ahhhh ... quick? Really? Apart from Jack Steven - out midfield is like treacle. All we have are either slow inside mids (Dunstan & Armo), one-paced accumulators (Ross & Steele), Acres (big bodied, runs the lines but not exactly lightening). And Jack Steven - our only A-grader.

We're so far short of the 7 - 10 you need to run through there to be competitive.

You didn't watch the match?

Do you regard Dangerfield as quick?

I do.

Seb outran him on three occasions.

Yep - attended in person as usual.

Nope - I don't - pretty sure I didn't mention anything about Danger but it's your way to create your own narrative (so we've seen). Danger has a burst. Think you'll find Rhys Stanley and Darcy Lang are Geelong's quickest. And are you talking straight line speed or speed when hitting the ball? Charlie Cameron speed or Dane Swan speed?

So - YOU think Seb Ross is quick? Ha. BTW - Seb has a lot of excellent qualities - pretty sure the consensus would show that outside speed is not one of them.

[SemperFidelis]

Wonder when tony74 will come on here and tell us why the lads removed their shoes and disappeared into the showers
at 3/4 time

And that they are hurting more than us.
Then how the boys trained the house down during the week.

tony74 probably has those phrases in a Word Document; just does the Ctrl-C, then Ctrl-V into a new post.
Less keystrokes.

Maybe I shouldn't bother. But you know I think there's a few out there that appreciate it. I mean it's not rocket science. Ther were 3 occasions our mistakes led to their goals. That's 3 twelve point turnarounds. You can't do that against a good team. As I said it's not rocket science. We just have to take our chances and we're not at the moment. Hopefully we will on Saturday
Hang on Ctrl-C...... The players are really trying.

No one doubts the effort.

I thought this week we took our chances with more success than previous weeks. I, for one, was bloody happy that for the first time this year the goals exceeded the behinds, and that was mostly due to us having a crack and, this week, actually converting.

So let's keep taking our chances. And eating our bloody weeties, because this week we've just got to run out 4 quarters.

Go saints (Ctrl-C, V, repeat).

[Con Gorozidis]

We have won a few meaningless games against the Cats and then we all carry like we won a GF. Last year we beat them in a pointless dead rubber and we all popped champagne like we had won the Superbowl.

The reality is they beat us in all the meaningful games - and Sunday was a meaningful game.

[SaintPav]

We have won a few meaningless games against the Cats and then we all carry like we won a GF. Last year we beat them in a pointless dead rubber and we all popped champagne like we had won the Superbowl.

The reality is they beat us in all the meaningful games - and Sunday was a meaningful game.

Last year's win, the first since 2010, was in round 14 or so.

Why wasn't it meaningful?

[thejiggingsaint]

+1 St Pav. "meaningless" (?) REALLY? try telling anyone who was AT that game that it was "meaningless" or a "dead rubber" Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that EVERY game "mattered" otherwise, what the hell are we all doing with our time, rocking up to the game each week of the home and away season.......or am I missing something here? I permit myself a wry smile at the condescending comments about "blueskying", as if having a view other than "doom and gloom" is somehow "unrealistic" For what its worth, I neither need, nor request lessons from anyone, but ANYONE in having a sense of reality. I simply hold a differing perspective on where the club are situated, at this moment. The REALITY (despite what the usual suspects would have us believe) is that we are in a better win-loss position (2-3) than we were at the same stage last season (1-4) THAT is reality! Round five last season provided us with GWS ripping us a new one to the tune of 47 points....on our OWN midden! Now yesterday was disappointing in so many ways, and yes we have a HUGE challenge ahead, I don't shy away from that, all is not hunky-dory at present, but for Gods sake! just WHO promised an easy ride to success?
The task for us as supporters is to pick ourselves up and get behind those boys during this rebuild!

GO Saints! (to hell with the rest!)

[WellardSaint]

We have won a few meaningless games against the Cats and then we all carry like we won a GF. Last year we beat them in a pointless dead rubber and we all popped champagne like we had won the Superbowl.

The reality is they beat us in all the meaningful games - and Sunday was a meaningful game.

Dead rubber?
It wasn't a NAB Cup game. It was 4 premiership points up for grabs.
At the post-match presser, I can't recall their coach saying "Oh well, we lost, but it didn't mean anything"
Was I watching a different game?

[thejiggingsaint]

Well said WellardSaint! "dead rubber" ?? yeah! RIGHT! Honestly, I just done get some folks logic...but hey! They have just as much right to express it as anyone

[Spud]

I was up on level 3 behind the goals at the Geelong cheer squad end. I had a bird's eye view all afternoon of us winning the ball in general play, one of our players, usually Steven I think, bolting away from Geelong players, only to run towards a forward line, look up and see no St. Kilda players in it whatsoever. I don't know how often this happened. The work Minchington was doing off the ball was phenomenal. He and Roberton were amongst our best today.
At one stage every player on the field was in one quarter of the ground (Geelong's forward pocket). Every single player. I don't profess to be an expert on tactics or structure but we should keep at least our book ends at FB and FF.
I think it is now obvious that our run and manic pressure game is exhausting the players so that by the last quarter there is nothing left in the tank. It could be that the players are at the tail end of recovering form extra loading in their pre-season training, so if so, we should see an improvement in our ability to finish off games from now on.
We desperately need to find another tall, quick midfielder, with elite finishing skills by hand and foot, perhaps two. The best tall mid available with our first draft pick and a free agent midfielder with the second should do it.
I am not going to say much about the ruck situation except that Hickey is our #1 ruckman, but we can use Longer to give Hickey a chop out. It is better if Bruce can stay in the forward line.
Yes, Geelong have picked up players in Dangerfield, Henderson, Tuohy and Smith, but we have picked up Carlisle and Brown, as well as Stevens and Steele, so there is no excuse for the fade out in the last quarter. Geelong have just done a great job in developing their players. I heard on the radio that this is the fifth out of six years where Geelong have won their first five games or better. Like the Melbourne loss, I think we have to acknowledge that they were just the better side on the day.
I didn't think we'd play finals this year anyway, and always expected that this season would be a treading water year where we get games and experience into players, and at least it is obvious that the endeavour is certainly there.
Today was a 50/50 and we lost, but we must win next week. There could be as many as four changes next week.

Glad someone mentioned their training load and I hope this is the case. We have been running out of steam in last quarters this year. I didn't see that happening to us late last year when we still had manic pressure. Here's hoping our running out games begins to improve because something seemed amiss with us out on our feet and the cats full of run. However they are the number 1 team in the comp for winning last quarters and they certainly showed the fitness for it.

[thejiggingsaint]

White Winmar...... just why do you bother? really? "This year is already gone"....now THAT attitude is why "we've won one flag in 144 years" I'll take "blueskying" ANY day of the week over schitt like "This Year is already gone"

[Spud]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

+1

[thejiggingsaint]

HEY Spud! Good to get your +1

[Con Gorozidis]

We have won a few meaningless games against the Cats and then we all carry like we won a GF. Last year we beat them in a pointless dead rubber and we all popped champagne like we had won the Superbowl.

The reality is they beat us in all the meaningful games - and Sunday was a meaningful game.

Dead rubber?
It wasn't a NAB Cup game. It was 4 premiership points up for grabs.
At the post-match presser, I can't recall their coach saying "Oh well, we lost, but it didn't mean anything"
Was I watching a different game?

Was a dead rubber. We finished 9th. They finished 2nd. They got a home final (which they won). We didn't make the finals. Dead rubber.

[thejiggingsaint]

And all this happened in round 14? are you nuts?!

[Con Gorozidis]

And all this happened in round 14? are you nuts?!

In the context of the season it was entirely meaningless. Had zero impact. They got a double chance and a home final. We missed the finals. So was completely meaningless in the scheme of things.

[thejiggingsaint]

yeah...whatever.......you win...... dead rubber, flubber blubber, whatever you say..........

[desertsaint]

And all this happened in round 14? are you nuts?!

In the context of the season it was entirely meaningless. Had zero impact. They got a double chance and a home final. We missed the finals. So was completely meaningless in the scheme of things.

beat us they come top. get gws, in all liklihood thats a simmonds game, beat them and get the dogs (who they beat up on in the h&a) in the prelim and go on to the final against most likely, gws again. that loss to us completely changed the finals.
i bet if you asked a cats fan if they would've prefered that scenario they'd take it. no game for 4 points is meaningless unless both teams are already out of finals. that win gave us a real shot of making it. pity we disn't carry on with it. imagine a gold coast suns fan saying the same thing about their victory over us?

[WellardSaint]

We have won a few meaningless games against the Cats and then we all carry like we won a GF. Last year we beat them in a pointless dead rubber and we all popped champagne like we had won the Superbowl.

The reality is they beat us in all the meaningful games - and Sunday was a meaningful game.

Dead rubber?
It wasn't a NAB Cup game. It was 4 premiership points up for grabs.
At the post-match presser, I can't recall their coach saying "Oh well, we lost, but it didn't mean anything"
Was I watching a different game?

Was a dead rubber. We finished 9th. They finished 2nd. They got a home final (which they won). We didn't make the finals. Dead rubber.

I got married at age 28. Popped champagne, just like the supporters did after the 3 point win.
At the time, our relationship was pretty much a loving and vibrant one, and we made plans to travel, buy a house in the next few years, all good.
Our season ended several years later.
If we had a time machine, we could have decided the relationship was "a dead rubber" as it was ultimately meaningless, and saved all that time and headache.

Context- at the time of that game, Rd 14, nobody knew how the season would play out.
Play each game each week.

You don't really understand simple logic

[saint-stu]

Sinclair is banging down the door and Dunstan is simply not doing enough.
An average of 16 disposals a game for a 4th year player who is a full time mid and cant play anywhere else is just not good enough.

Rubbish. His current average is 17.25. Seb Ross had an average of 18.2 in his fourth year. 26 the next year. These guys (Billings, Acres and Dunstan) have just not matured yet.

[saint-stu]

Indeed. Making excuses never advances your cause. Blue skying is fine, but does little for the reality of the situation. Blue skying is one reason we've won one flag in 144 years. Love the enthusiasm of some on here, but they really have nothing to contribute to the reality of our situation. This year is already gone. Hopefully 2018, with FAs and two first rounders will see us improve.

But doom and gloom comentary on a fan forum is so helpful to the cause? It's not excuses but being realistic IMO. Citywest is spot on. Have we all forgotten that we "won" the wooden spoon in 2014? Do we think the rise to top 4 is just a foregone conclusion? Hell no. I'm very happy with how we have rebuilt and are now on the rise. No one is saying the rebuild is done. We absolutely need more A grade mids, but as you said, we have 2 first rounders and have carved out salary cap space for a quality FA.

Last year we had some strong performances but got absolutely smashed on a number of occasions. So far this year we've been much more consistent. Strong performance against west coast in perth which we would have won if we didn't have the yips. Right in the game early in the 4th quarter against contenders in Geelong.

[ace]

I was up on level 3 behind the goals at the Geelong cheer squad end. I had a bird's eye view all afternoon of us winning the ball in general play, one of our players, usually Steven I think, bolting away from Geelong players, only to run towards a forward line, look up and see no St. Kilda players in it whatsoever. I don't know how often this happened. The work Minchington was doing off the ball was phenomenal. He and Roberton were amongst our best today.
At one stage every player on the field was in one quarter of the ground (Geelong's forward pocket). Every single player. I don't profess to be an expert on tactics or structure but we should keep at least our book ends at FB and FF.
I think it is now obvious that our run and manic pressure game is exhausting the players so that by the last quarter there is nothing left in the tank. It could be that the players are at the tail end of recovering form extra loading in their pre-season training, so if so, we should see an improvement in our ability to finish off games from now on.
We desperately need to find another tall, quick midfielder, with elite finishing skills by hand and foot, perhaps two. The best tall mid available with our first draft pick and a free agent midfielder with the second should do it.
I am not going to say much about the ruck situation except that Hickey is our #1 ruckman, but we can use Longer to give Hickey a chop out. It is better if Bruce can stay in the forward line.
Yes, Geelong have picked up players in Dangerfield, Henderson, Tuohy and Smith, but we have picked up Carlisle and Brown, as well as Stevens and Steele, so there is no excuse for the fade out in the last quarter. Geelong have just done a great job in developing their players. I heard on the radio that this is the fifth out of six years where Geelong have won their first five games or better. Like the Melbourne loss, I think we have to acknowledge that they were just the better side on the day.
I didn't think we'd play finals this year anyway, and always expected that this season would be a treading water year where we get games and experience into players, and at least it is obvious that the endeavour is certainly there.
Today was a 50/50 and we lost, but we must win next week. There could be as many as four changes next week.

Glad someone mentioned their training load and I hope this is the case. We have been running out of steam in last quarters this year. I didn't see that happening to us late last year when we still had manic pressure. Here's hoping our running out games begins to improve because something seemed amiss with us out on our feet and the cats full of run. However they are the number 1 team in the comp for winning last quarters and they certainly showed the fitness for it.

Some teams get caught by ASADA others don't. They just keep getting away with it.
Bomber Thompson is really pissed that he was fined and forced to take blame at Essendon in a secondary role while he had a primary role at Geelong and paid no price.

[BigMart]

Ross, in his fourth year...

Wasn't he playing his fourth year in 2015, the year he tore his hammy off the bone and missed 12 weeks?
Luke is averaging 16.2 this year... Seb averaged 18.2 in 2015 after returning from a serious leg injury?

I watch a lot of VFL

I have seen Seb play a number of VFL games, never saw Luke ever pull on the Sandy jumper

Seb finishes top 5 in club time trials, Luke finishes bottom 10

[Teflon]

Let's face facts

Game in balance with ball in hand we lacked class Cats didn't
In 09 GF game in balance we lack class - Cats don't
When will we face facts that carrying unskillful players by foot will only lead you to heartbreak when the heat is on???

Midfield A Class is not there. In the last Qtr they stepped up- we wilted.

Until we address this we are a good middle of the road side relying on ageing stars.

Are you for f****** real? I was proud of how our team played. We ran out of gas in the last quarter against a top 4 team. There is no disgrace in that.

Did you forget we were Wooden Spooners in 2014 FFS? Get a grip Teflon (Pun intended).

We just missed finals last year so what's your point?
It's about HOW we are going to improve recognising right now this season is done and we are off the pace.
Why am I trying to convince an Essendon supporter of this???
Back to your own club me thinks.

[Teflon]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

Cue the sound of one hand clapping

Indeed. Making excuses never advances your cause. Blue skying is fine, but does little for the reality of the situation. Blue skying is one reason we've won one flag in 144 years. Love the enthusiasm of some on here, but they really have nothing to contribute to the reality of our situation. This year is already gone. Hopefully 2018, with FAs and two first rounders will see us improve.

Great post WW - supporters accepting "near enough" only adds to a culture of mediocrity... it's why Cats won't be down for long....

[thejiggingsaint]

Teflon...who the phuck is "making excuses"? Who the phuck says I accept "near enough"? you don't know me from a tin of paint, so how the phuck would YOU know what I "accept"? Being positive about the real strides we've made, does'nt mean that I enjoy or accept defeats and poor performances. I'll take "Blueskying" ANY day of ANY week over posts like: "we're going to lose three in a row" and other similar defeatist schitt. The Cats "culture"? you've got to be kidding! a club that managed to out-choke even Port Adelaide in big games from 1963-2007, hey give the catters time mate, a few seasons out of finals and you'll see the colour of THEIR blood!

[remboy]

Teflon...who the phuck is "making excuses"? Who the phuck says I accept "near enough"? you don't know me from a tin of paint, so how the phuck would YOU know what I "accept"? Being positive about the real strides we've made, does'nt mean that I enjoy or accept defeats and poor performances. I'll take "Blueskying" ANY day of ANY week over posts like: "we're going to lose three in a row" and other similar defeatist schitt. The Cats "culture"? you've got to be kidding! a club that managed to out-choke even Port Adelaide in big games from 1963-2007, hey give the catters time mate, a few seasons out of finals and you'll see the colour of THEIR blood!

Well said Jigster.