How many time how many excuses???

[repta]

Saints at the moment are a quick team, however this comes at a cost. They are not as big bodied as some other teams. Against both West Coast and Geelong the big bodies smashed and crashed through leaving the Saints in their wake.

Saints need some bigger bodies around the contest. It will be the only way to progress deep into the finals

[Saintmatt]

Dunstan has played 58 AFL games.
0 VFL games.

His running ability is nowhere near AFL level. His last quarters are embarrassing. He looks like he is running in quick sand. Stuck in mud.
Can't see how he is going to make it unless there is some dramatic change in this.

Surely the love affair with him and the coach is coming to an end?

Hella yes. You can't tell me that Jack Sinclair is not a better option than Dunstan FFS. When Luke can't find the footy - there's no option for a plan B. His lack of pace and endurance means that he can't be displaced into a lock-down run-with role on say, Selwood in the last 1/4. That's pretty one dimensional when your output as a full time mid is only normally 10- 20 touches a game.

If nothing else - we know Sinclair has an engine (won 1-4 year players 3klm time trial); has already demonstrated at the level that he's a goal-kicking small forward and, has honed his midfield craft for a season at Sandy. What more does he actually have to do to get a run?

[Saintmatt]

Saints at the moment are a quick team, however this comes at a cost. They are not as big bodied as some other teams. Against both West Coast and Geelong the big bodies smashed and crashed through leaving the Saints in their wake.

Saints need some bigger bodies around the contest. It will be the only way to progress deep into the finals

Ahhhh ... quick? Really? Apart from Jack Steven - out midfield is like treacle. All we have are either slow inside mids (Dunstan & Armo), one-paced accumulators (Ross & Steele), Acres (big bodied, runs the lines but not exactly lightening). And Jack Steven - our only A-grader.

We're so far short of the 7 - 10 you need to run through there to be competitive.

[Saintmatt]

We also need a better solution to having Bruce going into the ruck.

This. He's a liability in the ruck and we get thrashed every time he goes in there.

I'm dumbfounded as to why Richo hasn't at least tried Carlisle in there - he's 200cm and has some size. Blind Freddy can see that Bruce is a nothing short of hopeless as our back-up.

[barneyboyz]

Ross isn't that slow, not off a burst if he gets a good feed, but both he and Steven just kick it long to a contest (generally).

Geelong's mids can deliver onto a coin at a similar pace... the ball don't come back over their heads quite so much, and this is exacerbated later in quarters/games.

Add to this, Bruce couldn't catch a cold atm

[Saintmatt]

Yep agree with a lot of the comments here about lack of class and also the game plan. When teams put the full court press back on us, our skills and decision making can look deplorable. Plus our high pressure, high labour game plan means we fall in a hole from exhaustion. It might get a bit better as the young players get better tanks.

But whether we keep pumping games into the money ball types of Weller, Bruce, Savage, Brown, Members (who does have a bit of class), Roberton - and guys like Webster, Geary (as captain isn't going anywhere) Gilbo etc. Or whether we target the younger players who have shown some class ball use and genuine AFL weaponry - White, Rice, Sincs, Marshall, Battle, Mckenzie.

Our inability to keep the ball as another weapon to control momentum is a big issue. Geelong used it to devastating advantage in the second half - taking the pace out of the game until they were ready to push forward. At the moment for us, its all pressure or nothing. We need another dimension to our game.

Holy hell - are you in my head? Exactly. We have moneyball written all over us. Why Gilbert plays now when McKenzie is rotting in the 2nds is beyond me. Ditto as to why Dunstan plays instead of Sinclair. I fail to see how White and Rice could kick it worse than Savage and Webster (who both have nice looking kicking actions but butcher it). Marshall - elevate him to Shinner's spot and play him instead of Bruce (who clearly has the goalkicking yips and hits the footy with flat, hard hands meaning a mark is more of a fluke than a likely outcome. Plus is hopeless as a back-up ruck). Battle is a baby who's doing Yr 12 - let him gestate naturally.

When the present is clearly not working - you have to try something. Anything.

[Teflon]

I'd be playing Mckenzie and Sinclair - surely it's about the future?? This dude is carrying some GOPs who against top tier talent are found wanting...

We all know after the Lyon experiment that if we carry to many money ballers we fall sort at the big dance. Up the level of skilled money ballers across the board, inject some A grade talent or 2 and you start to have sides fearing you

Right now our manic pressure alone is not enough

[WellardSaint]

I'd be playing Mckenzie and Sinclair - surely it's about the future?? This dude is carrying some GOPs who against top tier talent are found wanting...

We all know after the Lyon experiment that if we carry to many money ballers we fall sort at the big dance. Up the level of skilled money ballers across the board, inject some A grade talent or 2 and you start to have sides fearing you

Right now our manic pressure alone is not enough

The big problem, as I see it, and I am just guessing here, is that all of the coaches are on the same page, but it's the wrong freakin book.
They look at last year, and how we just missed out on finals, and they believe that just a few tweaks can get us moving up.
Are they deluded? Are they thinking just like Richmond used to, you know, overestimating the team's ability? Blind to what's right in front of them?
They keep persisting with hopeless unskilled players who can do 1 or 2 good tackles in a game, but keep turning it over.
Won't elevate skilled players, maybe because these guys aren't robots who will play a role.

Recruit Carlisle and Brown to bolster backline because Fish and Dempster were retiring...Goddard's injury required a big KPP to cover.
This gets a big tick from me.

But...midfield? Ha.
Bring in Steele to help out the mids -our mids like Dunstan are so skilful, and the midfield just needs tweaking.
Armo is ok now with all the rehab, so yeah, just need another mid and we're fine.

This is like a racing car team changing their brand of oil and sparkplugs; just a little change and we'll win more.

The close loss in Perth has justified the coaches' delusion, because they've fixed the travel issue.

We have bigger issues than just travel.

[WellardSaint]

Wonder when tony74 will come on here and tell us why the lads, at 3/4 time:

-removed their shoes
-disappeared into the showers

[magnifisaint]

Wonder when tony74 will come on here and tell us why the lads removed their shoes and disappeared into the showers
at 3/4 time

And that they are hurting more than us.
Then how the boys trained the house down during the week.

[WellardSaint]

Wonder when tony74 will come on here and tell us why the lads removed their shoes and disappeared into the showers
at 3/4 time

And that they are hurting more than us.
Then how the boys trained the house down during the week.

tony74 probably has those phrases in a Word Document; just does the Ctrl-C, then Ctrl-V into a new post.
Less keystrokes.

[Trev from the Bush]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

[citywest]

Let's face facts

Game in balance with ball in hand we lacked class Cats didn't
In 09 GF game in balance we lack class - Cats don't
When will we face facts that carrying unskillful players by foot will only lead you to heartbreak when the heat is on???

Midfield A Class is not there. In the last Qtr they stepped up- we wilted.

Until we address this we are a good middle of the road side relying on ageing stars.

Are you for f****** real? I was proud of how our team played. We ran out of gas in the last quarter against a top 4 team. There is no disgrace in that.

Did you forget we were Wooden Spooners in 2014 FFS? Get a grip Teflon (Pun intended).

[WellardSaint]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

Cue the sound of one hand clapping

[thejiggingsaint]

"cue the sound of one hand clapping" ? Good one WS! good one!

[White Winmar]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

Cue the sound of one hand clapping

Indeed. Making excuses never advances your cause. Blue skying is fine, but does little for the reality of the situation. Blue skying is one reason we've won one flag in 144 years. Love the enthusiasm of some on here, but they really have nothing to contribute to the reality of our situation. This year is already gone. Hopefully 2018, with FAs and two first rounders will see us improve.

[citywest]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

Cue the sound of one hand clapping

Indeed. Making excuses never advances your cause. Blue skying is fine, but does little for the reality of the situation. Blue skying is one reason we've won one flag in 144 years. Love the enthusiasm of some on here, but they really have nothing to contribute to the reality of our situation. This year is already gone. Hopefully 2018, with FAs and two first rounders will see us improve.

You are a moron White Winmar

MOD EDIT : POSTER WARNED FOR ABUSE

[White Winmar]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

Cue the sound of one hand clapping

Indeed. Making excuses never advances your cause. Blue skying is fine, but does little for the reality of the situation. Blue skying is one reason we've won one flag in 144 years. Love the enthusiasm of some on here, but they really have nothing to contribute to the reality of our situation. This year is already gone. Hopefully 2018, with FAs and two first rounders will see us improve.

You are a moron White Winmar

But I'm a saints supporter, Essendope troll.

[Wayne42]

The list rebuild is flawed, that's painfully obvious, it's a tough gig when a team is trying to rebuild in an 18 team comp.

Just not enough quality to go round. We could be a bit more selective with our pics though, maybe skill could be a prerequisite.

[twirlyhair]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

+1

[twirlyhair]

When the frustration and pain of the loss subsides; when one can take a long and deep breath and consider the game objectively, I'm reasonably pleased with many aspects of our development. Anyone who thinks that this rebuild will yield immediate success (IMHO) is being unrealistic. There ARE plenty of reasons to feel happy and good about where we are at as a club. We have a clear choice: Get behind the club and its coaches 100% OR sit in our own schitt and wallow in maintaining our "victim status" I know where I stand!

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE FOR THE VOICE OF COMMON SENSE

Cue the sound of one hand clapping

Indeed. Making excuses never advances your cause. Blue skying is fine, but does little for the reality of the situation. Blue skying is one reason we've won one flag in 144 years. Love the enthusiasm of some on here, but they really have nothing to contribute to the reality of our situation. This year is already gone. Hopefully 2018, with FAs and two first rounders will see us improve.

You are a moron White Winmar

City boy, this is a forum you know. If you can't handle it...umm how did the rest of your quote go?

[Con Gorozidis]

Sinclair is banging down the door and Dunstan is simply not doing enough.
An average of 16 disposals a game for a 4th year player who is a full time mid and cant play anywhere else is just not good enough.

[saynta]

Saints at the moment are a quick team, however this comes at a cost. They are not as big bodied as some other teams. Against both West Coast and Geelong the big bodies smashed and crashed through leaving the Saints in their wake.

Saints need some bigger bodies around the contest. It will be the only way to progress deep into the finals

Ahhhh ... quick? Really? Apart from Jack Steven - out midfield is like treacle. All we have are either slow inside mids (Dunstan & Armo), one-paced accumulators (Ross & Steele), Acres (big bodied, runs the lines but not exactly lightening). And Jack Steven - our only A-grader.

We're so far short of the 7 - 10 you need to run through there to be competitive.

You didn't watch the match?

Do you regard Dangerfield as quick?

I do.

Seb outran him on three occasions.

[tony74]

Wonder when tony74 will come on here and tell us why the lads removed their shoes and disappeared into the showers
at 3/4 time

And that they are hurting more than us.
Then how the boys trained the house down during the week.

tony74 probably has those phrases in a Word Document; just does the Ctrl-C, then Ctrl-V into a new post.
Less keystrokes.

Maybe I shouldn't bother. But you know I think there's a few out there that appreciate it. I mean it's not rocket science. Ther were 3 occasions our mistakes led to their goals. That's 3 twelve point turnarounds. You can't do that against a good team. As I said it's not rocket science. We just have to take our chances and we're not at the moment. Hopefully we will on Saturday
Hang on Ctrl-C...... The players are really trying.

[shrodes]

Plenty of keyboard warriors on here tony. Keep doing what you're doing, there are plenty that appreciate it.