time to try Longer?

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time to try Longer?

Postby whiskers3614 » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:42pm

Hickey pretty poor today, Grundy arguably BOG.
I know Hickey gets a few more possessions around the ground but there weren't too many that went clearly to our advantage.The less hit-outs Bruce contests the happier I will be.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Vazelos » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:44pm

Longer toiled at Sandringham yesterday he is not the answer...
Lewis has a bigger future...
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby RODOS » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:45pm

longer isn't performing well in the 2s
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby saintbob » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:46pm

Hickey was ok, IMO
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby SuperDuper » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:47pm

whiskers3614 wrote:Hickey pretty poor today, Grundy arguably BOG.
I know Hickey gets a few more possessions around the ground but there weren't too many that went clearly to our advantage.The less hit-outs Bruce contests the happier I will be.


No.

Hickey kept battling and had some important tackles marks and posessions... Grundy won the day but Hickey had some influence himself
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Griggsy » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:50pm

Thought hickey was serviceable. We know grundy is a better player, the whole comp knows it. Longer would have done no better in the ruck and less around the ground. By reports at sandy bellchambers had our ruck division well covered.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Milne » Sun 16 Apr 2017 9:50pm

Longer is a liability around the ground IMO. Hickey was beaten today but is definitely our no.1 ruckman.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby The Pinch Hitters » Sun 16 Apr 2017 10:54pm

Hickey could be a top 3 ruckman in the comp.

Longer is a back up ruckman, should only play when Hickey is unavailable.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Bernard Shakey » Sun 16 Apr 2017 10:59pm

NO!
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby shrodes » Sun 16 Apr 2017 11:15pm

No offense to either of them, but I don't see Longer or Holmesy as the future of this side. I'd rather give Marshall a go and let him rotate with Hickey and give Hickey more of a rest, hopefully that can take his work around the ground up another level.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby repta » Tue 18 Apr 2017 9:53pm

Hickey ok
Bruce is a terrible ruckman.

Saints bigger issue is the main ruck back up.

Saying that Hicky is getting badly beaten on occasions
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby BigMart » Tue 18 Apr 2017 11:10pm

Hickey has been clearly beaten 3 out of the 4 games.

Top 3 ruckman in the comp?

He hasn't even faced
Sandi, Goldstein, Jacobs, Mumford
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby saintbrat » Tue 18 Apr 2017 11:59pm

is Tom missing Jack?
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Wed 19 Apr 2017 12:15am

BigMart wrote:Hickey has been clearly beaten 3 out of the 4 games.

Top 3 ruckman in the comp?

He hasn't even faced
Sandi, Goldstein, Jacobs, Mumford


Hickey not going awesome but he is still our best by a mile.
Longer unable to even get a kick in the VFL.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby borderbarry » Wed 19 Apr 2017 12:19am

In the five senior games Holmes has had he has been okay. How is he doing in the VFL. and is he getting much of a go?
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby borderbarry » Wed 19 Apr 2017 12:20am

In the five senior games Holmes has had he has been okay. How is he doing in the VFL. and is he getting much of a go?
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Spinner » Wed 19 Apr 2017 1:36am

Milne wrote:Longer is a liability around the ground IMO. Hickey was beaten today but is definitely our no.1 ruckman.



Because Hickey was so dominant today around the ground. Got smashed by Grundy...

Longer would be a monster in the ruck. Ten times more important.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Spinner » Wed 19 Apr 2017 1:37am

Vazelos wrote:Longer toiled at Sandringham yesterday he is not the answer...
Lewis has a bigger future...




Wasn't from where I was standing. Up against experience AFL players too.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby SydneySainter » Wed 19 Apr 2017 2:14am

I've been backing Hickey since he arrived and I still think he can be one of the competitions top rucks.

But, he's getting beaten at the moment. Whether it's a form slump, injury, confidence or fatigue, I think Hickey may need a spell in the VFL and Longer may warrant a recall.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby citywest » Wed 19 Apr 2017 8:15am

Maybe give Hickey a week off to regroup. By week off I mean no footy at all. Give either Longer or Holmes a game and see how they go. It can't hurt.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby BigMart » Wed 19 Apr 2017 8:38am

Hickey has one major weakness - he is a good footballer, as I underestimated initially because I was judging him as a ruckman

But the reasons I didn't rate him initially are starting to show

It's nothing about his talent, he's got a fair bit

It's to do with his strength and size - he's rake thin
He just gets belted one on one in Ruck duels which makes our mids reactive rather than proactive and we get belted at stoppage

I made my controversial call after Spencer and Mumford well over double hit outs against him 3 year back. Longer was bought in and bought it back to 50/50

I have a new idea/theory wrt Hickey for 2017
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby skeptic » Wed 19 Apr 2017 8:49am

BigMart wrote:
I have a new idea/theory wrt Hickey for 2017


Which is...
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby bigcarl » Wed 19 Apr 2017 9:08am

I guess if we're not going to play Paddy it makes playing two rucks a possibility.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby BigMart » Wed 19 Apr 2017 11:27pm

It's completely against my initial philosophy but I have reconsidered due to Paddy

I think Paddy needs to play close to an entire year in the vfl and be made to earn his spot... also Dunstan and Lonie
They need to get fitter

I think out Ruck should become our strength
We have a lot on inside mids who would benefit from 28mins of effective Ruck work

Currently we have
23 mins of Hickey (about 10 mins of Hickey exhausted, which increases every Q)
5 mins of Bruce
Per Quarter

We are lucky enough to have Nick Riewoldt... so lets utilise that strength

What I think is this
16mins of Longer
12 mins of Hickey

Hickey deep forward for 8 mins
Longer deep forward for 4 mins

Riewoldt Forward for 12 mins Wing for 12 mins 4mins rest

Mobile forward Line for 4 mins with Acres as the 3rd

This way
Longer can crash and bash the opposition #1 ruckman for two spells of 8 mins
Hickey can then either take full advantage of a tired ruckman or smash a part timer and really give our mids something...

Few clubs go with two ruckman, why copy them... use the fact we have a good #2 to our advantage. It will compensated the loss of the mobile player.

I think our front half should look like this

Membrey/Weller (Stevens/Acres)

Long/Minchington (Gresham)

Bruce

Hickey (Longer/Riewoldt)

In this set up The lowest tall forward becomes the anchor, Weller looks after the dangerous HB, The two smalls have obvious roles, Bruce gets a bit more room as he plays a touch higher, Membrey plays as the link

Spitter can be
Mav, Long, Minch, Joey, even Jack Steven

Hickey has sticky hands and is more mobile than Paddy anyway
Longer is slow, but will contest and bring it to ground,
Roo is a star

McCartin plays if Bruce is injured and/or the opposition don't have a decent ruckman... and Hickey can handle them

If Longer cannot fulfill this role
Marshall forward
And
Hickey back to #1
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Dave McNamara » Fri 21 Apr 2017 11:02pm

BigMart wrote:... Longer can crash and bash the opposition #1 ruckman for two spells of 8 mins
Hickey can then either take full advantage of a tired ruckman or smash a part timer and really give our mids something...

Few clubs go with two ruckman, why copy them... use the fact we have a good #2 to our advantage. It will compensate the loss of the mobile player...

If Longer cannot fulfill this role Marshall forward Hickey back to #1

A lot to like in that very in depth analysis Mart. My only problem is, Billy.

I'd be playing anyone, yes, anyone, on our list ahead of Billy. Can't mark. Not much of a kick. (I don't know if he can handball? So no comment there.) Sure, competes in the ruck, but doesn't actually win many taps. Holmesy would get at least as many possessions as Billy, whilst winning more and better tap outs. Basically, we're pretty much playing one man short. Sorry Billy, but I'd rate you as the worst player on our list.

I was disappointed when we failed to trade him out last season - as now the rest of the league will doubtless cotton-on soon.

I'm also aware however that some astute Saintsational observers have said the Billy is now over his injuries, and is ready to surprise. I'm hoping to be surprised.
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