time to try Longer?

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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Zed » Fri 21 Apr 2017 11:23pm

I'm actually ok with this policy of rotating players out for a rest.

I'm actually most comfortable about this from a ruck perspective given that we have Billy Longer , a former top 10 draft pick (and potentially still valuable trade commodity) sitting in the seconds. If Billy plays the next 3 games then gets rested and Hickey gets rotated in for 3 games and then back to Billy and so on, then by the end of the year a few clubs will be asking if we want to trade one out. Could possibly snag a late first round or early second round pick, and still have Marshall and Pierce as backups.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby elizabethr » Sat 22 Apr 2017 1:47am

You're dreaming.
nothing to say
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby White Winmar » Sat 22 Apr 2017 2:03am

Zed wrote:I'm actually ok with this policy of rotating players out for a rest.

I'm actually most comfortable about this from a ruck perspective given that we have Billy Longer , a former top 10 draft pick (and potentially still valuable trade commodity) sitting in the seconds. If Billy plays the next 3 games then gets rested and Hickey gets rotated in for 3 games and then back to Billy and so on, then by the end of the year a few clubs will be asking if we want to trade one out. Could possibly snag a late first round or early second round pick, and still have Marshall and Pierce as backups.


Exactly this, Zed. GWS was interested in Billy last year and was willing to trade, but Billy refused to go, so no deal. I can't help thinking they'll try again this year as we don't need all four ruckmen and Marshall is emerging. I'm disappointed my man Lewie Pierce hasn't shown more so far this year, as I really thought he would become number two behind Tom before the year was out.

May still happen, but Marshall looks the best prospect of becoming our second best, at least. Interesting times ahead, but I can't help thinking, contract or no contract, Billy won't be with us next year unless he has a dramatic rise in performance between now and then.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby BigMart » Sat 22 Apr 2017 8:14am

Hickey wasn't 'rotated' last year

Rotated = Dropped
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby supersaints » Sat 22 Apr 2017 9:53am

BigMart wrote:It's completely against my initial philosophy but I have reconsidered due to Paddy

I think Paddy needs to play close to an entire year in the vfl and be made to earn his spot... also Dunstan and Lonie
They need to get fitter

I think out Ruck should become our strength
We have a lot on inside mids who would benefit from 28mins of effective Ruck work

Currently we have
23 mins of Hickey (about 10 mins of Hickey exhausted, which increases every Q)
5 mins of Bruce
Per Quarter

We are lucky enough to have Nick Riewoldt... so lets utilise that strength

What I think is this
16mins of Longer
12 mins of Hickey

Hickey deep forward for 8 mins
Longer deep forward for 4 mins

Riewoldt Forward for 12 mins Wing for 12 mins 4mins rest

Mobile forward Line for 4 mins with Acres as the 3rd

This way
Longer can crash and bash the opposition #1 ruckman for two spells of 8 mins
Hickey can then either take full advantage of a tired ruckman or smash a part timer and really give our mids something...

Few clubs go with two ruckman, why copy them... use the fact we have a good #2 to our advantage. It will compensated the loss of the mobile player.

I think our front half should look like this

Membrey/Weller (Stevens/Acres)

Long/Minchington (Gresham)

Bruce

Hickey (Longer/Riewoldt)

In this set up The lowest tall forward becomes the anchor, Weller looks after the dangerous HB, The two smalls have obvious roles, Bruce gets a bit more room as he plays a touch higher, Membrey plays as the link

Spitter can be
Mav, Long, Minch, Joey, even Jack Steven

Hickey has sticky hands and is more mobile than Paddy anyway
Longer is slow, but will contest and bring it to ground,
Roo is a star

McCartin plays if Bruce is injured and/or the opposition don't have a decent ruckman... and Hickey can handle them

If Longer cannot fulfill this role
Marshall forward
And..
Hickey back to #1


Oh great philosopher... what happened to your dozens of posts bagging Longer and wanting to get rid of him? Or all your posts that say "it won't happen" cant play two genuine ruckmen in the same side" etc..etc...etc
You are so full of it Lots of posters got it right ...we will choose horses for courses and we will likely play two rucks at times... you howled all this down , many astute posters and even Arron Hammill said this.
Go on try to say it " I was wrong ". Hypothesis my arse
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby freely » Sat 22 Apr 2017 10:00am

Question for the players out there - will it make a big difference that Longer's had hardly any game time with the mids in our firsts? Might that make him look worse tomorrow than he is? (might it make minch look better?)
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby citywest » Sat 22 Apr 2017 10:44am

Dave McNamara wrote:
BigMart wrote:... Longer can crash and bash the opposition #1 ruckman for two spells of 8 mins
Hickey can then either take full advantage of a tired ruckman or smash a part timer and really give our mids something...

Few clubs go with two ruckman, why copy them... use the fact we have a good #2 to our advantage. It will compensate the loss of the mobile player...

If Longer cannot fulfill this role Marshall forward Hickey back to #1

A lot to like in that very in depth analysis Mart. My only problem is, Billy.

I'd be playing anyone, yes, anyone, on our list ahead of Billy. Can't mark. Not much of a kick. (I don't know if he can handball? So no comment there.) Sure, competes in the ruck, but doesn't actually win many taps. Holmesy would get at least as many possessions as Billy, whilst winning more and better tap outs. Basically, we're pretty much playing one man short. Sorry Billy, but I'd rate you as the worst player on our list.

I was disappointed when we failed to trade him out last season - as now the rest of the league will doubtless cotton-on soon.

I'm also aware however that some astute Saintsational observers have said the Billy is now over his injuries, and is ready to surprise. I'm hoping to be surprised.

I will resist having a go at you Dave but seriously man, have you forgotten how Billy performed in 2015? How could you possibly say he is the worst player on our list? I could understand it if you were writing for the HeraldSun but not on Saintsational. Pull your socks up my man!!
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Bluthy » Sat 22 Apr 2017 12:20pm

freely wrote:Question for the players out there - will it make a big difference that Longer's had hardly any game time with the mids in our firsts? Might that make him look worse tomorrow than he is? (might it make minch look better?)


Not a player but Longer would be practicing with them at training knowing all the set ups/tap zones etc. But he is going to have a different style than Hicks which will take some getting used to in-game. But that can be a good thing to - clubs would have done a lot of work in the off-season on Hicks who was rucking well last year. So now they have to deal with someone different in the ruck they may not have a lot of intel on.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Johnny Member » Sat 22 Apr 2017 12:24pm

I really don't rate Longer.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby WellardSaint » Sat 22 Apr 2017 4:05pm

Johnny Member wrote:I really don't rate Longer.

The coaches rate him.
Or they decided that Hickey needed a break, and "Longer can't really do any worse'
I don't know what they are thinking, but the coaches are in the box seat, it's their call entirely.
His presence will surprise the Cats' tactics, as another poster said, they're expecting Hickey and this could help us close the clearance gap.
This week, anyway
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby kosifantutti » Sat 22 Apr 2017 4:11pm

BigMart wrote:Hickey wasn't 'rotated' last year

Rotated = Dropped

How's he going at Sandy today?
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby WellardSaint » Sat 22 Apr 2017 4:46pm

kosifantutti wrote:
BigMart wrote:Hickey wasn't 'rotated' last year

Rotated = Dropped

How's he going at Sandy today?

I thought Hickey wasn't named in the Zebs team
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby kosifantutti » Sat 22 Apr 2017 4:48pm

WellardSaint wrote:
kosifantutti wrote:
BigMart wrote:Hickey wasn't 'rotated' last year

Rotated = Dropped

How's he going at Sandy today?

I thought Hickey wasn't named in the Zebs team

BigMart said he was dropped, so he must be playing at Sandy.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby freely » Sat 22 Apr 2017 5:14pm

Bluthy wrote:
freely wrote:Question for the players out there - will it make a big difference that Longer's had hardly any game time with the mids in our firsts? Might that make him look worse tomorrow than he is? (might it make minch look better?)


Not a player but Longer would be practicing with them at training knowing all the set ups/tap zones etc. But he is going to have a different style than Hicks which will take some getting used to in-game. But that can be a good thing to - clubs would have done a lot of work in the off-season on Hicks who was rucking well last year. So now they have to deal with someone different in the ruck they may not have a lot of intel on.


Good point - hope you're right!
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby WellardSaint » Sat 22 Apr 2017 5:16pm

kosifantutti wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
kosifantutti wrote:
BigMart wrote:Hickey wasn't 'rotated' last year

Rotated = Dropped

How's he going at Sandy today?

I thought Hickey wasn't named in the Zebs team

BigMart said he was dropped, so he must be playing at Sandy.

wasn't named in Zebs or Dev Squad, nowhere. Not even the extended bench.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby kosifantutti » Sat 22 Apr 2017 5:17pm

Who ya gunna believe? BigMart or Sandy?
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby WellardSaint » Sat 22 Apr 2017 5:22pm

kosifantutti wrote:Who ya gunna believe? BigMart or Sandy?

this is referred to as "entrapment"
and I won't take the bait :shock: :roll:
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby WellardSaint » Sat 22 Apr 2017 5:24pm

McCartin slots his third! SAN 54 v RIC 78 #PJVFL

from the Zebs twitter feed
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby BigMart » Sat 22 Apr 2017 7:09pm

I'd believe Alan Richardson

Who said he was going to be dropped regardless, even if he didn't pull up sore, he said we need to improve in the ruck and Toms is aware of his level of performance.

So before you just play the man... get a f***ing clue!!!
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby BigMart » Sat 22 Apr 2017 7:11pm

Super saints

How about reading the first two lines... before mouthing off
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Proph3t of egan » Sun 23 Apr 2017 1:27am

I think now that the third man up is gone, Billy has become far more valuable a commodity. A mobile ruckman is good when he can have help getting hitouts by another player, and can also help around the ground. But a good tap ruckman doesn't need to do much more then give his mids the best possible tap, and compete around the ground, bringing the ball down and such. Longer has the potential for that. We forget that he is still only 23, and there are very few rucks who master the craft that age. I hope that longer can bring some good tap work tomorrow and lay some heavy tackles
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby supersaints » Sun 23 Apr 2017 2:34am

BigMart wrote:Super saints

How about reading the first two lines... before mouthing off


I read it. .... a philosopher you are not ...<edited by mods> I suppose next you'll be telling me you discussed it with Plato

<warning for abuse and attacking a poster rather than the content of the post >
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby Griggsy » Sun 23 Apr 2017 3:33am

Mentally preparing for the long and longer puns today.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby White Winmar » Sun 23 Apr 2017 4:23am

Could be the longest day, Griggsy.
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Re: time to try Longer?

Postby bigcarl » Sun 23 Apr 2017 8:08am

Griggsy wrote:Mentally preparing for the long and longer puns today.


Ever hear the one about Viv Richards and Joel Garner when they stopped for a pee on a bridge?
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