Kicking for goal

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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby BigMart » Mon 17 Apr 2017 11:11am

Horrible golfer, who tries everything from coaching lessons to teaching aids to adjustments in grip, stance, action.

I practice on the range everyday, even if I think I get it right? On the course with a ball and a scorecard, inevitably I revert to the old 'coming over the top and slicing'

Changing is NOT as simple as some here seem to think, to alter technique...
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby bigcarl » Mon 17 Apr 2017 11:21am

BigMart wrote:Horrible golfer, who tries everything from coaching lessons to teaching aids to adjustments in grip, stance, action.

I practice on the range everyday, even if I think I get it right? On the course with a ball and a scorecard, inevitably I revert to the old 'coming over the top and slicing'

Changing is NOT as simple as some here seem to think, to alter technique...


The set up is the only thing you can really control, but if you get that right everything becomes a hell of a lot easier.

I recommend Ben Hogan's Modern Fundamentals of Golf, the "bible" of golf instruction. You have to get right down into the detail and act on it though.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Bluthy » Mon 17 Apr 2017 12:03pm

Our game plan relies on players wearing themselves out with pressure and running to support in attack and they have less in the tank for kicking on goal. It's why kicking on goal in the AFL doesn't get better - forwards have to get up and down the ground a hella lot and have less composure and energy in the tank for shots.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Vazelos » Mon 17 Apr 2017 12:17pm

Brilliant point Bluthy... the only other concern is maybe too much sports science and not enough Goal kicking practice.
They worry the extra kicks will tire their legs I have heard...
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Turbo » Mon 17 Apr 2017 2:30pm

Bluthy wrote:Our game plan relies on players wearing themselves out with pressure and running to support in attack and they have less in the tank for kicking on goal. It's why kicking on goal in the AFL doesn't get better - forwards have to get up and down the ground a hella lot and have less composure and energy in the tank for shots.


Agree 100% but that's why the automated set process when kicking for goal is even more important. Set up the routine and follow it through. You can see our guys over thinking it when they are 30-40 metres out. Stop thinking and follow the process. But the correct process has not been taught, that's the problem. They guys are moving around way to much, their bodies are way to vertical and not many pick a target behind the goals, run is a straight line at it, and kick to it.

Also I reckon the stupid 30 second shot clock thing has certainly had a psyhcological affect on most players. They seem to be rushing their kicks. So I come back to my original statement, someone give them a set process they need to follow when kicking at goal, this will redice the effect of the little man in their head.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby White Winmar » Mon 17 Apr 2017 5:24pm

BigMart wrote:Change people's natural kicking style... hmm that's not going to f*** with their head is it?! Under pressure....

Anyone here play golf??

Skill acquisition takes more than 150 hrs, 10 000 reps to become autonomous .... it can't happen in season.

And when telling people how to complete a skill, or all coaching for that matter

Never say what NOT to do...

Just what they should do

It's the golden rule of coaching

I hear you BM, although I had a lesson on putting with a Pro where he shortened my backswing and lengthened my follow through. Suddenly, I turned from yipper to ripper on the shorter puts, up to about 2 metres. Started holing them consistently, whereas beforehand I would miss with infuriating regularity. I know the putting action is relatively simple and the swing itself is an entirely different matter, but there are things you can do which should bring some improvement immediately. Like Loewey, when Huddo just straightened his run up. Loewey was never a technically great kick, but that simple change allowed him to become relatively reliable, and a 90 goal in a year forward.

I wish I knew the answer to this year's goalkicking malaise. It seems almost contagious. It's already cost us one game and a swag of percentage. We weren't that great last year, but not as bad as this. Hopefully the worst is out of the way and a good game should hopefully turn us around. Even good kicks for goal from last year, such as Membrey and Weller have been ordinary this year. Go figure.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby tony74 » Mon 17 Apr 2017 5:30pm

Vazelos wrote:Brilliant point Bluthy... the only other concern is maybe too much sports science and not enough Goal kicking practice.
They worry the extra kicks will tire their legs I have heard...


No, theres alot of goal kicking done at training. During match simulation they are always told to take the set shot when it happens. Also often during hard running drills etc the whistle is blown and they all run down and take set shots. But it does drive you crackers mind you.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Jacks Back » Mon 17 Apr 2017 5:44pm

tony74 wrote:
Vazelos wrote:Brilliant point Bluthy... the only other concern is maybe too much sports science and not enough Goal kicking practice.
They worry the extra kicks will tire their legs I have heard...


No, theres alot of goal kicking done at training. During match simulation they are always told to take the set shot when it happens. Also often during hard running drills etc the whistle is blown and they all run down and take set shots. But it does drive you crackers mind you.

What about JUST kicking for goal rather than being some small part of other drills. Just set shots. Get the routine down pat. Get Huddo there or someone who can actually kick a f****** goal!!!!!!!!
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Griggsy » Mon 17 Apr 2017 5:49pm

Best accurate goal kicking team in the league today proving it goes both ways. Geelong look like us in front of goals
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Con Gorozidis » Mon 17 Apr 2017 5:53pm

I am calling it.
Hawks, Swans, Pies, Blues, Lions, North and Bombers cannot and will not make the 8.
Put a line through em.
11 teams left.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby on the outer » Mon 17 Apr 2017 6:11pm

Part of the rationale for reducing interchange rotations is to increase the amount of fatigue and in theory therefore open up of the game.

Maybe an un intended consequence of the fatigue has been a reduction in skills, with goal kicking being the most obvious example. I wonder what the stats are for field kicking and whether that's comparable.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby happy feet » Mon 17 Apr 2017 6:37pm

BigMart wrote:Horrible golfer, who tries everything from coaching lessons to teaching aids to adjustments in grip, stance, action.

I practice on the range everyday, even if I think I get it right? On the course with a ball and a scorecard, inevitably I revert to the old 'coming over the top and slicing'

Changing is NOT as simple as some here seem to think, to alter technique...


Give yourself a treat. Head up to Australian Golf School at the Gold Coast for a week. Make sure you get Tom Linskey, best golf teacher/coach ever.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Linton Lodger » Mon 17 Apr 2017 6:40pm

repta wrote:Overall kicking for goal has been terrible across the board (most teams). But saints are doing truely terrible this year. If they kicked straighter they would have beaten West Coast, potentially shut out Melbourne early in the game. Then today.... left the door open.
Create a routine for kicking for goal.
Rules.
1. Dont go back 30m and run in 10m therefore kicking 20m further than necessary.
2. Head over the ball.
3.No bouncing around on the run in.
4. No leaning back on the kick.
5. Kick through the ball.

Not that hard. Many many players look terrified when they are having a shot. No practice = no confidence.


This would be a good start.

Also, pick someone behind the goal to pass it to.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Linton Lodger » Mon 17 Apr 2017 6:41pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:I am calling it.
Hawks, Swans, Pies, Blues, Lions, North and Bombers cannot and will not make the 8.
Put a line through em.
11 teams left.


Largely agree, a bit early to write off The Swans.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby bigcarl » Mon 17 Apr 2017 7:17pm

tony74 wrote:No, theres alot of goal kicking done at training. During match simulation they are always told to take the set shot when it happens. Also often during hard running drills etc the whistle is blown and they all run down and take set shots. But it does drive you crackers mind you.


I see a lot of guys down at the golf range smacking ball after ball, mostly ingraining bad habits and never improving much.

You have to practice the right things.

Perfect practice makes perfect.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby BackFromUSA » Mon 17 Apr 2017 7:30pm

Don't change their kicking action at all. Simply tell them to ignore the goal posts and just kick to a spot behind the goals that they pick out. If they are good enough to kick the ball to a position then they will slot it.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Con Gorozidis » Mon 17 Apr 2017 7:36pm

Griggsy wrote:Best accurate goal kicking team in the league today proving it goes both ways. Geelong look like us in front of goals

20.14 is pretty good.
15.2 in the second half.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Con Gorozidis » Mon 17 Apr 2017 7:38pm

Linton Lodger wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:I am calling it.
Hawks, Swans, Pies, Blues, Lions, North and Bombers cannot and will not make the 8.
Put a line through em.
11 teams left.


Largely agree, a bit early to write off The Swans.

I don't mind what the​ Swans are doing but they are playing a heck of a lot of kids. I think this is a rebuild year for them and they will have another crack next year.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Con Gorozidis » Mon 17 Apr 2017 9:04pm

Lonie career:
25.30
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Griggsy » Mon 17 Apr 2017 9:16pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:
Griggsy wrote:Best accurate goal kicking team in the league today proving it goes both ways. Geelong look like us in front of goals

20.14 is pretty good.
15.2 in the second half.

I jinxed it, they were 2.11 when I wrote it
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Jacks Back » Mon 17 Apr 2017 11:39pm

BackFromUSA wrote:Don't change their kicking action at all. Simply tell them to ignore the goal posts and just kick to a spot behind the goals that they pick out. If they are good enough to kick the ball to a position then they will slot it.

I don't think set-shot kicking for goal is as simple as that. Normally when a player is passing the ball they are on the run or run around off the mark but a set shot is more like just a high kick into your forward line. They are not passing it to someone in the crowd at all. They need a routine like Huddo did with Loewe to straighten him up. The ball drops needs to be as close to the boot as possible.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Enrico_Misso » Mon 17 Apr 2017 11:39pm

Pwoit wrote:Get Jason Heatley down and teach them how to kick!

The Heater was an absolute dead-eye.
Just a shame he couldn't get the ball!
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby Foz » Wed 19 Apr 2017 1:06am

We kicked 4 goals 9 behinds from 13 set shots v Pies

Close In < 20m we were 2 goals, 0 behinds from 2 shots
Midrange 25-40m we were 1 goal, 2 behinds from 3 shots
From extended range 45m+ we scored 1 goal, 7 behinds from 8 shots

Like v Brisbane, it seems a lot of the shots are being taken at long range. Against the Pies, none of the set shots were on an angle exceeding 50 degrees, so all had an fair expectation with the shot taken.

Using the distance and angles of kicks taken, an approximation of the expected score of each set shot attempt shows
the 13 shots should have netted 48 points when we actually scored 33 points (4 goals 9 behinds) That's a possible 2.5 extra goals that should have been registered.

In regards to goal kicking from general play the following stats are found

Close In < 20m we were 5 goals, 0 behinds from 5 shots
Midrange 25-40m we were 0 goal, 2 behinds from 2 shots
From extended range 45m+ we scored 0 goal, 3 behinds from 3 shots

So for both set shots and general play kicks at goal combined at a distance at 25m or beyond, Saints managed 2 goals 14 behinds. This is where against better opposition, chances will have to be taken at longer range.
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby freely » Wed 19 Apr 2017 2:22pm

With congestion around goals these days, guys who can kick a goal off a step or snap round the corner are at an absolute premium. Thinking Kennedy against us - but Milney could do it and Gresham seems to know where the goals are. Can that be taught?
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Re: Kicking for goal

Postby SaintPav » Wed 19 Apr 2017 2:37pm

Enrico_Misso wrote:
Pwoit wrote:Get Jason Heatley down and teach them how to kick!

The Heater was an absolute dead-eye.
Just a shame he couldn't get the ball!


It was what he did when he didn't have the ball which was the problem.
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