Changes

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Re: Changes

Postby Johnny Member » Mon 17 Apr 2017 1:17pm

Bluthy wrote:
This is the Scheinder arguement and I don't think it holds much water. Weren't Lonie, Templeton and Sincs meant to benefit huge from pumping games into a 33 yo.? Not sure thats turned out the case.


Maybe they did? Maybe they're actually ordinary footballers with limitations and we got more out of them with Schneider being around the place? No one else picked up Templeton.

Bluthy wrote:We've got tonnes of experience - Roo, Joey, Gilbo, Armo, Geary, Brown. Then we've got a big batch in the 50-100 game mark now.


Who are the big batch of 100-150 game players??

Bluthy wrote:Our Baby saints grew up to be great footballers getting games pumped into them together as young kids.


??

Which baby Saints are you talking about? The top 10 draft picks? X Clarke? Maguire? Kosi??

Bluthy wrote:I think we needed more time at the bottom and that would have been achieved by playing more young players together which helps their bonding. Our old pants backline last year was ridiculous. I would be using this year as much more blooding of youth and having a lower ladder position to get another top pick.


I agree we created a false economy last year by finishing 9th. But I think you're contradicting yourself a bit.

You seem to be arguing that we have an abundance of talent in the 2s that are highly skilled and exciting. But then you state that we needed another year down the bottom to get better players into the club?

The Currans, Templetons, Saunders' thast you were screaming out for to get games as they were highly skilled etc. etc. are gone, and no one else wanted them. Why? Because they were no good. They weren't highly skilled, exciting young kids that should be getting games pumped into them.

They were ordinary footballers with limitations.

The guys that you now want to get picked, are the same. Slightly better, but not much. There are even some in the team that aren't really up to it!


I just don't see this exciting, highly skilled talent at Sandy that you keep saying should be playing. Who are they?

Lonie can't nail a set shot from 30m out and only touches the ball about half a dozen times each week. He's been picked. And has failed.

The ones that actually do tick some of the boxes you talk about - are actually playing.






Bluthy wrote:Its also the type of young players you are getting games into. I would be trying my arm on the good kicking, creative youth than some of the money ball types like Weller, Savage etc.


As per above. Who are these guys? Where are they?



Bluthy wrote:But they don't suit Richo's pressure game plan as much. So Richo's footy style will dictate who gets played obviously. That is my big concern - I'm not a huge fan of Richo's swarm style. It worked yesterday and against Brissy - but only just. The good teams I worry will brush off our swarm with their skill. Lets see.



It's the chicken and the egg scenario. I agree with you that we play a low skilled, low 'precise' brand of footy and pretty much hang our hat on overwhelming the opposition physically.

But is that out of necessity? Are we trying to play that way? Or are trying to execute differently, but simply don't have the skill to do it?

I don't know.


I agree though, if we are only about pressure and think we can win a flag by doing that each week - we're dreaming. We're dreaming because the really good teams bring that same level of pressure and intensity every week. And, on top of that they are highly skilled.

You need both, and we only have the former.

But is that by choice?


I shudder to think what teams would do to us if we backed off with our pressure and attempted to slice teams up with precise kicking and clean ball use. We'd get smacked by 100 points every week, simply because we don't have the cattle to actually do it.
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Re: Changes

Postby skeptic » Mon 17 Apr 2017 1:48pm

Like I said in another thread, there's no disputing Armo's top 18 and a walk up start... but Tony reported that he had been touch and go all week.

I just feel like he's too precious/vital a player to risk when we've got a plethora of similar types in the team already and a few others mids itching to get a game.

If Armo had to miss one more game (against the Pies) to be fully fit to take on Geelong and we got a game into say a Koby Stevens, or Sinclair, or Minch... I'd have taken that deal every day of the week.

We certainly need him more vs Geelong then we did for the Pies
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Re: Changes

Postby Linton Lodger » Mon 17 Apr 2017 2:01pm

Wayne42 wrote:
bigred wrote:Hickey got absolutely pantsed today.


Not just today, maybe i'm wrong, but, i think he's been pantsed 4 out of 4..

I thought he was an improving ruckman, he is shite at the ruck contest. WTF are we doing with ruckmen, do we have one that can win a ruck contest, can we win a center clearance now and then.. :roll: :roll:


No, he dominated against West Coast and had a really good dual with Martin last week. He lost the dual yesterday, but fought back and improved as the game went on.
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Re: Changes

Postby To the top » Mon 17 Apr 2017 2:24pm

On the Bluthy Chess Board we:-

1) Drop Riewoldt because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Battle for experience.
2) Drop Montagna because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Minchington because Minchington is an established Star AFL mid-fielder
3) Drop Armitage because he has played over 150 games and play Sinclair (ditto for Minchington)
4) Drop Gilbert because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Rice for experience
5) Drop Brown because he is an experienced player and play Templeton at full back for experience and because Templeton is the perfect footballer

And, sorry, but you NEVER go onto a field of play not expecting to WIN.

So you ALWAYS select your BEST side.
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Re: Changes

Postby To the top » Mon 17 Apr 2017 2:39pm

Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.
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Re: Changes

Postby mullet » Mon 17 Apr 2017 4:32pm

Hmmmm out for Cats maybe P Dangerfield just copped a roughy knee to back
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Re: Changes

Postby WellardSaint » Mon 17 Apr 2017 4:47pm

To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.


Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.
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Re: Changes

Postby CURLY » Mon 17 Apr 2017 4:54pm

WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.


Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.


Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.
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Re: Changes

Postby kosifantutti » Mon 17 Apr 2017 5:07pm

BigMart wrote:Bulldogs always drop players, after wins

Let's them know they are never perfect and have room to improve, they never dwell on the last win.

It also keeps them all hungry!


Everyone does everything better than us.

Who did they drop after winning this year?

How many changes did they make for the Grand Final?
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Re: Changes

Postby kosifantutti » Mon 17 Apr 2017 5:22pm

CURLY wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.


Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.


Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.

Also completely wrong.


http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017- ... andringham
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Re: Changes

Postby CURLY » Mon 17 Apr 2017 6:17pm

kosifantutti wrote:
CURLY wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.


Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.


Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.

Also completely wrong.


http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017- ... andringham


Sorry Kosi you obviously missed sarcasm.
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Re: Changes

Postby dragit » Mon 17 Apr 2017 8:55pm

WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.


Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.

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Re: Changes

Postby Con Gorozidis » Mon 17 Apr 2017 8:58pm

To the top wrote:On the Bluthy Chess Board we:-

1) Drop Riewoldt because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Battle for experience.
2) Drop Montagna because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Minchington because Minchington is an established Star AFL mid-fielder
3) Drop Armitage because he has played over 150 games and play Sinclair (ditto for Minchington)
4) Drop Gilbert because he is on the wrong side of 30 and play Rice for experience
5) Drop Brown because he is an experienced player and play Templeton at full back for experience and because Templeton is the perfect footballer

And, sorry, but you NEVER go onto a field of play not expecting to WIN.

So you ALWAYS select your BEST side.


How about we keep Roo, Brown and Joey because they are good and drop Armo because he is now s***?
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Re: Changes

Postby kosifantutti » Mon 17 Apr 2017 10:04pm

CURLY wrote:
kosifantutti wrote:
CURLY wrote:
WellardSaint wrote:
To the top wrote:Just to add, a Sandringham side including 17 AFL Listed players only just fell in against Essendon by 7 points.

So, if they are so good and so close to AFL Stardom, how come such a close result?

Yes, there are players such as McCartin, Goddard and Freeman who were high or higher First Round Draft Picks and Stevens recruited so have expectation of AFL careers - but the remainder have been around the traps for a few years (including when we could not win a game) plus we have 18 year olds and a few from Overseas still learning the game.

The real worth of Sandringham is the progress of just 4 players (McCartin, Freeman, Goddard and Stevens) then anyone else continually performing when someone at AFL level is continually under performing.


Wow. That's the most insightful and relevant post on this board this year.

Folks have been pleading for these guys to get a shot- Sinclair, Meatball, Wright, Rice, D-Mack, Koby (I want him in seniors too)
but, as you say, why can't they monster another VFL side?
Here in Perth, Peel in the WAFL was stacked with Dockers a coupla weeks ago, and they monstered their enemy.

I would expect that so early in the season, VFL Zebs would be screaming and banging the door down, before our best 22 can be settled.
A strong VFL team should point to great depth.


Essendons VFL had no AFL listed players which is surprising.

Also completely wrong.


http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017- ... andringham


Sorry Kosi you obviously missed sarcasm.

My apologies.
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Re: Changes

Postby Dave McNamara » Mon 17 Apr 2017 11:55pm

saynta wrote:
tony74 wrote:No.1. You play an " underdone, injured trusty old player instead of giving a game to a young mid "when you know he will do the job better
No.2. You don't wim premierships in April
No. 3 Take the win, bank the 4 points and move on.


With you on that one tony74


What about on numbers 2 and 3? :wink:
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Re: Changes

Postby mightysainters » Tue 18 Apr 2017 12:42am

Hickey, Lonie and Dunstan all need to be dropped..

Lonie clearly not up to AFL level and Dunstan is much of a muchness with Armo, Steele, Kony etc.. Would rather Koby

Hickey, nothing really needs to be said.. He's been ordinary..

IN: Jack Steven, Koby and Longer
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Re: Changes

Postby CURLY » Tue 18 Apr 2017 1:22pm

mightysainters wrote:Hickey, Lonie and Dunstan all need to be dropped..

Lonie clearly not up to AFL level and Dunstan is much of a muchness with Armo, Steele, Kony etc.. Would rather Koby

Hickey, nothing really needs to be said.. He's been ordinary..

IN: Jack Steven, Koby and Longer


Hickey took a couple of big contested grabs in the back half on Sunday.
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Re: Changes

Postby Saint wagga » Tue 18 Apr 2017 2:26pm

Only 1 change for mine...jack Steven in for 1 mid...take your pick, he's our best mid so he can replace anyone. If Armo is injured straight swap. Otherwise leave the side to keep gelling. Everyone has at least been 'ok' in the last 3 weeks on average except paddy and he got dropped!

If they want paddy to come in for structure, probably long goes out and bides his time. He looks exciting though! That's my two bobs
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Re: Changes

Postby longtimesaint » Tue 18 Apr 2017 4:16pm

CURLY wrote:
mightysainters wrote:Hickey, Lonie and Dunstan all need to be dropped..

Lonie clearly not up to AFL level and Dunstan is much of a muchness with Armo, Steele, Kony etc.. Would rather Koby

Hickey, nothing really needs to be said.. He's been ordinary..

IN: Jack Steven, Koby and Longer


Hickey took a couple of big contested grabs in the back half on Sunday.

No way Hickey or Dunstan will be dropped.
Longer not all that good in VFL and Dunstan does a lot of the in and under stuff -very important.
I think Hickey will get the better of Geelong ruck and I think we can stretch their defence.
Steven in for Lonnie or Long. (Unless Armo is sore)
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Re: Changes

Postby To the top » Tue 18 Apr 2017 5:45pm

I actually thought that all players contributed to some degree or another last Sunday - which was pleasing because it builds a platform

Hickey put in some good ground level contests and took some very important marks under pressure - probably saved the game for us in the end

Dunstan put his body exactly where it needed to be, taking the hits and doing the hard yards blocking in the contest

But, all players being available Steven as our premier player needs to come in

So someone goes out

Plus there is structure meaning McCartin is right in the mix

So a small forward and last in, first out may be the criteria

The game is at Docklands which is a fast surface
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Re: Changes

Postby Impatient Sainter » Tue 18 Apr 2017 6:26pm

Out:

Dunstan & Lonie

In:

Steven & Stevens
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Re: Changes

Postby freely » Wed 19 Apr 2017 2:43pm

Out: Lonie and Armo (if inj)
In: Paddy and Steven
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Re: Changes

Postby robsaint » Wed 19 Apr 2017 10:56pm

my Guess is
Jack Steven for the Injured Armo
Koby Stevens for Lonie

If they drop Long they may bring in Minchington
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Re: Changes

Postby Vazelos » Wed 19 Apr 2017 11:27pm

Jack Stevens will come in for Armitage I feel.
Long will stay in although Minchington is busting down the door.
Lonie plays a poor game and he is in trouble.
Where do you fit Koby Stevens?
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Re: Changes

Postby BigMart » Thu 20 Apr 2017 9:26am

In and under stuff?

What, getting the ball??

In an under... we have 6 inside mids that are supposed to be 'in and under' (supporters term)
The most important thing they do is win at stoppage

We got smashed at stoppage

Luke got 11 touches... the lowest by a margin of any stoppage player
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