Changes

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Re: Changes

Postby shrodes » Thu 20 Apr 2017 10:39am

BigMart wrote:In and under stuff?

What, getting the ball??

In an under... we have 6 inside mids that are supposed to be 'in and under' (supporters term)
The most important thing they do is win at stoppage

We got smashed at stoppage

Luke got 11 touches... the lowest by a margin of any stoppage player


Only 64% game time BM (lowest for either team). Had 7 tackles, equal second behind Man Of.
Let's not boot a player on one ordinary week... remember he got in the coaches vote against Brisbane with over half his disposals contested. I think he's still an important player.
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Re: Changes

Postby BigMart » Thu 20 Apr 2017 1:23pm

Tackles by insiders can often mean 2nd to the ball

Why did he only play 64% of game time??? With Armo obviously struggling?

Just like with Paddy the week before... he sat on the pine because the coach didn't trust him on the ground in his role, because he cannot spread from the contest

Either way?

We were smashed at clearance, remember he is an 'in and under'
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Re: Changes

Postby spert » Thu 20 Apr 2017 4:02pm

I caught much of the VFL game last week, and really, only Minch was worthy of a senior recall and would would replace a possible injured Armo with him.
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Re: Changes

Postby BigMart » Thu 20 Apr 2017 4:11pm

We must do something about stoppage!!!
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Re: Changes

Postby White Winmar » Thu 20 Apr 2017 4:46pm

BigMart wrote:We must do something about stoppage!!!

This. We're getting smashed. Fortunately the filth wasn't good enough to exploit its advantage. Melbourne was. If we have another weekend like last week around the stoppages, the pussies will give us a fair old licking!
Winmar to LOCKETT!!!!!
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Re: Changes

Postby stonecold » Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:21pm

White Winmar wrote:
BigMart wrote:We must do something about stoppage!!!

This. We're getting smashed. Fortunately the filth wasn't good enough to exploit its advantage. Melbourne was. If we have another weekend like last week around the stoppages, the pussies will give us a fair old licking!


What's your solution then WW?????
" Cause StoneCold Said So"!!!!!

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Re: Changes

Postby samoht » Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:24pm

Woe is me! Those pesky clearances.
We lost the hitouts last year vs the Cats (we had 4 less hitouts) -- but still won the clearances by 8 (and the match by 3 points) - go figure.
8 is neither here nor there in the big scheme of things - where there are 350 plus possessions to each side.

:wink: :wink:
Last edited by samoht on Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Changes

Postby stonecold » Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:29pm

samoht wrote:Woe is me!
We lost the hitouts last year vs the Cats (we had 4 less hitouts) -- but still won the clearances by 8 (and the match by 3 points) - go figure. :wink: :wink:


Hitouts not to advantage not worth a piece of rockin horse s***!!!!!
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Re: Changes

Postby samoht » Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:30pm

stonecold wrote:
samoht wrote:Woe is me!
We lost the hitouts last year vs the Cats (we had 4 less hitouts) -- but still won the clearances by 8 (and the match by 3 points) - go figure. :wink: :wink:


Hitouts not to advantage not worth a piece of rockin horse s***!!!!!


And what do the 8 extra clearances give us?
Each side has upwards of 350 possessions each ... 8 is a drop in the ocean.

Some of those 8 extra clearances of ours probably came back with interest - got turned over!
Have you read my latest ebook, The Fugitive Soldier?
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Re: Changes

Postby stonecold » Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:35pm

samoht wrote:
stonecold wrote:
samoht wrote:Woe is me!
We lost the hitouts last year vs the Cats (we had 4 less hitouts) -- but still won the clearances by 8 (and the match by 3 points) - go figure. :wink: :wink:


Hitouts not to advantage not worth a piece of rockin horse s***!!!!!


And what do the 8 extra clearances give us?
Each side has upwards of 350 possessions each ... 8 is a drop in the ocean.

some of those 8 clearances probably came back with interest - got turned over!


Yeap, too many useless states in footy, scoreboard is the only that matters at the end of the day!!!!!
" Cause StoneCold Said So"!!!!!

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Re: Changes

Postby samoht » Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:38pm

stonecold wrote:Yeap, too many useless states in footy, scoreboard is the only that matters at the end of the day!!!!!


+1
Exactly!
Have you read my latest ebook, The Fugitive Soldier?
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Re: Changes

Postby CURLY » Thu 20 Apr 2017 5:50pm

stonecold wrote:
White Winmar wrote:
BigMart wrote:We must do something about stoppage!!!

This. We're getting smashed. Fortunately the filth wasn't good enough to exploit its advantage. Melbourne was. If we have another weekend like last week around the stoppages, the pussies will give us a fair old licking!


What's your solution then WW?????


Geelong at there best and Hawthorn didnt mind losing the clearances, Its all about the quality of the clearance not how many.
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Re: Changes

Postby Vazelos » Thu 20 Apr 2017 6:47pm

BigMart wrote:Tackles by insiders can often mean 2nd to the ball

Why did he only play 64% of game time??? With Armo obviously struggling?

Just like with Paddy the week before... he sat on the pine because the coach didn't trust him on the ground in his role, because he cannot spread from the contest

Either way?

We were smashed at clearance, remember he is an 'in and under'



Had this discussion today with a Radio analyst & a staunch Saints man & argued the same case.
Inside mid fielder getting beaten at clearances. Not sure how thats effective.
3/4 best players in the team last week were defenders which tells you a bit.
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Re: Changes

Postby White Winmar » Thu 20 Apr 2017 7:04pm

stonecold wrote:
White Winmar wrote:
BigMart wrote:We must do something about stoppage!!!

This. We're getting smashed. Fortunately the filth wasn't good enough to exploit its advantage. Melbourne was. If we have another weekend like last week around the stoppages, the pussies will give us a fair old licking!


What's your solution then WW?????

I was hoping our midfield and stoppage coaches have the answer. Hickey giving us first use and having a greater physical presence would be a start, but once the ball hits the ground we've been found wanting. I don't know if they are too keen to concede and defend, rather than attacking the man and ball. I really don't know, sc. it's been a bit puzzling to watch, because we were pretty good in this area late last year. Having Jackie boy back in will definitely help. I'm out of ideas. I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
Winmar to LOCKETT!!!!!
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Re: Changes

Postby Playon » Thu 20 Apr 2017 7:27pm

In
Billy Longer, Jack Steven, Shane Savage, Koby Stevens, Darren Minchington

Out

Tom Hickey (Managed), David Armitage (Groin)
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Re: Changes

Postby WellardSaint » Thu 20 Apr 2017 7:31pm

BigMart wrote:We must do something about stoppage!!!

the lads and the coaches need to address this issue fairly urgently.

But...accuracy is first on my list.
If they address inaccuracy, then Forward 50 entries will be more productive with more goals being scored,
and...accuracy around the ground, means they hang on to the ball more instead of coughing it up,
So improving accuracy will fix 2 things,
and later on, they can worry about clearances.

They seem to bang on about being a pressure side, let's get the accuracy right as well.
Clearances can be worked on later.
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Re: Changes

Postby BigMart » Thu 20 Apr 2017 9:24pm

Anyone who undersells a ruckman at stoppage

Has never played midfield, possibly never played footy

Max Gawn in round 1 gave an arm chair ride
Grundy did the same

Ruckman hit to quadrants - of which there are 4 - there are 3 mids
So it is handy to know where it's going so you can set up

If the ruckman cannot get the tap, that's ok
He cannot allow the other ruckman a clear tap, it gives the opposition a step head start as they know where it's going. If it's just a contest and the ruckmen compete with no clear winner - the tap is often inconsequential

There are 3 taps
A clear win-to where it was designated - distinct advantage
A clear loss-the other team has the advantage
An even contest, even though there maybe a winner, the other ruckmen still nullifies the effectiveness or direction of the tap

Ive played under dominant ruckman and losing ruckman
I'd win 50% minimum more clearances with a winning Ruck
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Re: Changes

Postby samoht » Fri 21 Apr 2017 11:27am

At the risk of sounding like an old record....

If you look at the hitout/clearance stats over a whole year - it doesn't show whatever advantage a team may enjoy in hitout numbers translating into extra clearances.
One stat that never gets talked about is the "hitouts to disadvantage" - that's what I refer to it as, anyway - where a ruckman gets a clear hitout which nevertheless goes straight to an opposition player -who hasn't "sharked" it - it just goes straight to them!
This happens time and again, if you watch the contests.

I think Lyon pointed out re: Sandilands a couple of years ago - how his 25 or so extra hitouts didn't translate into extra clearances for his team.
You don't get any more dominant than Sandilands.

Clearance players themselves are much more important in effecting clearances. That's my take on it.

You still want your ruckman to be 200 cm and a brute - to make a contest of it.

I'll be judging Longer on how many possessions he gets around the ground - Grundy had 21 possessions against us last week - I'll be happy with 15 possessions and 6 tackles from Longer. I don't care about his hitout numbers.
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Re: Changes

Postby desertsaint » Fri 21 Apr 2017 12:10pm

Vazelos wrote:
BigMart wrote:Tackles by insiders can often mean 2nd to the ball

Why did he only play 64% of game time??? With Armo obviously struggling?

Just like with Paddy the week before... he sat on the pine because the coach didn't trust him on the ground in his role, because he cannot spread from the contest

Either way?

We were smashed at clearance, remember he is an 'in and under'



Had this discussion today with a Radio analyst & a staunch Saints man & argued the same case.
Inside mid fielder getting beaten at clearances. Not sure how thats effective.
3/4 best players in the team last week were defenders which tells you a bit.

you do realise only steven and ross (by just .2) are ahead of dunstan in clearances - compare him with all our mids on those, plus, goals, tackles, goals, one percenters, marks, disposals, conteated possies, etc this year. The lad is young, yet it seems we forget this as he has been a regular from virtually day one. compare him with armo and steven at the same age. there is a reason richardson likes him so much.
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Re: Changes

Postby Con Gorozidis » Fri 21 Apr 2017 1:34pm

Dunstan will get a few clearances sure. But that is because he spends all his time at stoppages. He is bound to win a few of them. His problem is he cant run so stoppages are his only involvement in the game
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Re: Changes

Postby Vazelos » Fri 21 Apr 2017 2:05pm

desertsaint wrote:
Vazelos wrote:
BigMart wrote:Tackles by insiders can often mean 2nd to the ball

Why did he only play 64% of game time??? With Armo obviously struggling?

Just like with Paddy the week before... he sat on the pine because the coach didn't trust him on the ground in his role, because he cannot spread from the contest

Either way?

We were smashed at clearance, remember he is an 'in and under'



Had this discussion today with a Radio analyst & a staunch Saints man & argued the same case.
Inside mid fielder getting beaten at clearances. Not sure how thats effective.
3/4 best players in the team last week were defenders which tells you a bit.

you do realise only steven and ross (by just .2) are ahead of dunstan in clearances - compare him with all our mids on those, plus, goals, tackles, goals, one percenters, marks, disposals, conteated possies, etc this year. The lad is young, yet it seems we forget this as he has been a regular from virtually day one. compare him with armo and steven at the same age. there is a reason richardson likes him so much.


Point taken desert saint, no doubt we are impatient as supporters and forget the fact most take time and dont hit their peak until 23/26.
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Re: Changes

Postby BigMart » Fri 21 Apr 2017 8:57pm

Pat Cripps, Josh Kelly, Caleb Daniel, Jackson Merrett, Connor Blakely, Matt Crouch, Clayton Oliver, Ollie Wines, - Mids are able get going if they can play earlier than Keys
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Re: Changes

Postby twirlyhair » Sat 22 Apr 2017 9:47am

stonecold wrote:
White Winmar wrote:
BigMart wrote:We must do something about stoppage!!!

This. We're getting smashed. Fortunately the filth wasn't good enough to exploit its advantage. Melbourne was. If we have another weekend like last week around the stoppages, the pussies will give us a fair old licking!


What's your solution then WW?????


Come on get serious stonecold. You don't really expect the critics on here to offer solutions do you?
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