Should be on notice IMO

[IluvHarvey]

Changes to blood kids should be looked at once the club concedes we are not going to make it.

Otherwise it should be the best we have every week up until that point.

Well we are giving Paddy a game most weeks on the basis of giving him experience even though he is not really contributing to the performance of the side.

I don't think we can wait till we are mathematically out of the race for the finals before we think beyond 2017 and play more kids, and we don't want them all in together either… but if we get spanked by another middling side like collingwood then we can probably rule out our premiership tilt this year @ round 4. If senior players like Weller, Gilbert & Savage are out of form then they should have a rest.

To a point I disagree with this.
I think the inclusion of Paddy is more around team structures rather than giving him a go.
Having Paddy in the team 1. Takes a quality Tall defender and 2. Free Rooey up to play up the ground more.

Who else do we have that can fill this spot?
Marshall? Still on the Rookie List. Bring Longer in and play Hickey forward? This has never worked and never will.

So Paddy it is.

[dragit]

I'd prefer a smaller player that gets the ball and kicks goals than a taller player who gets 3 effective disposals… I'm sure Holmes could bring the ball to ground and is also tall, more athletic, probably fitter.

Kosi played on too long for the sake of structure.

I don't mind paddy playing, but I think it's mainly on the basis of building experience at this stage… I don't think we are any worse when he's not in the side at the moment.

[Johnny Member]

Clearly this week is basically a battle of 'pressure'.

Collingwood appear to be trying to do what we do - and that is pinch games through out-pressuring and out-tackling the opposition. ...................

Like us, they have very low skill level across the park and very little high end talent. Granted, they have more than us with Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Treloar. But aside from them, it drops sharply to a bunch of battlers.


So again, like us, if they attempt to implement a precise and 'surgical' style of play - they'd be eaten alive by most teams. They, like us, just don't have the skill level to play that sort of game. "

I only watched the first quarter of the Pies/Sydney game - the most remarkable thing about that quarter was the ball movement and kicking - precise, attacking and not at all lacking in skill. I would be most pleased if I saw a StKilda side able to do as well.

Their first quarter was very good. It came off the back of their intensity and pressure.

After that, once Sydney lifted their intensity - their skill level dropped back to normal (ie. poor).

[Joffa Burns]

Pretty ordinary IMO to state that BM has NFI and not offer up any alternative!

Going left of centre unless Mason Cox plays and I think he may be injured, Collingwood do not have really tall or power forward line.
Moore is young, tall, agile and mobile but would not monster a backman.
White is reasonably strong but he is no Hawkins and does play up the ground and lead up more than one on one.

I very much doubt this will happen, but I think we could do without Brown this week and play Gilbert as a tall back on Moore or White.
Alternatively Brown goes to White, Gilbert to Moore, Carlisle to CHF and 2nd ruck option and Paddy to Springvale

I do not think the coach will drop Savage as he seems to be a player he wants to take the game on with his long kicking and I doubt he will drop Gilbert either due to his agression.
Paddy & Billings to go for me, but I very much doubt it as I believe the coach will back them in this week to give them confidence in themselves.

[saint64]

Paddy & Billings to go for me, but I very much doubt it as I believe the coach will back them in this week to give them confidence in themselves.

Will playing them regardless give them confidence though? I guess it depends on the player, but often dropping players back to the next level can allow them to regain their confidence

[Linton Lodger]

You wanna do a Rossy Lyon?

Big game this week, should be close to a full house and if Collingwood bring the pressure they brought against Sydney, then its a real test. We can assume they will, so it will probably be a pressure (finals like) contest.

Gilbo thrives on these occasions and you want to drop him. When has Gilbo ever let us down in a big game? 2009 GF, 2010 GF (first), R14 2009 v Geel, mighty games. He's one of those players that love it and he certainly hasn't lost any pace.

In pressure cooker games skills are paramount. You want to bring in Wright, his footskills unfortunately exposed under pressure Rd 1, for Billings who can use it with equal proficiency on both sides of the body.

One of Collingwood's weaknesses is its back six, yet based on 2 quiet games you want to drop McCartin who will take a good defender. Bring in a second ruck (Longer) against their deep midfield or the other option would be to move Riewoldt out of the midfield rotation and back forward.

If 100%, we will need to bring in Steven and Armitage and they'd be the only changes.

[Joffa Burns]

Paddy & Billings to go for me, but I very much doubt it as I believe the coach will back them in this week to give them confidence in themselves.

Will playing them regardless give them confidence though? I guess it depends on the player, but often dropping players back to the next level can allow them to regain their confidence

If they have the ability it might work.
Look how Steve Waugh backed in the enigmatic Andrew Symonds and reaped the reward of his prodigious talent.

[saint64]

Paddy & Billings to go for me, but I very much doubt it as I believe the coach will back them in this week to give them confidence in themselves.

Will playing them regardless give them confidence though? I guess it depends on the player, but often dropping players back to the next level can allow them to regain their confidence

If they have the ability it might work.
Look how Steve Waugh backed in the enigmatic Andrew Symonds and reaped the reward of his prodigious talent.

True, but Matthew Hayden got dropped several times before his career took off. Doug Walters dropped himself for poor form. Milney and Dal came back pretty strongly after being dropped...

[saintsRrising]

We don't need Hickey and Longer in the one team. Can only play 2 rucks if one is good enough to also genuinely play a key position.

We need one more mid. Could select 2 more as we have so many flankers.

DMak was good last last year, but has been poor to date with disposal quite poor this season.

If Steven and Armo are both fit I would expect both to come in. Could either drop Paddy or one of the flankers or Lonie who while good in a number of ways also suffers from being pushed aside, lack of pace and marking ability.

I doubt the Saints would make more than 2 changes after a win.

Apart from Steven and Armo, Sinclair and Stevens would both be on the short list to play.


Rice has been sailing along. Unfortunately for Rice though is that Geary holds the position that he is best suited to play in.

[White Winmar]

I notice spud Frawley said on SEN that Paddy needs to be more competitive. Dal was also in agreement. I didn't hear the segment so can't elaborate, but SEN posted the gist of it on FB. Did anyone hear the segment? Any context?

[saint64]

I notice spud Frawley said on SEN that Paddy needs to be more competitive. Dal was also in agreement. I didn't hear the segment so can't elaborate, but SEN posted the gist of it on FB. Did anyone hear the segment? Any context?

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/04/12/ ... -mccartin/

[stonecold]

Paddy & Billings to go for me, but I very much doubt it as I believe the coach will back them in this week to give them confidence in themselves.

Will playing them regardless give them confidence though? I guess it depends on the player, but often dropping players back to the next level can allow them to regain their confidence

If they have the ability it might work.
Look how Steve Waugh backed in the enigmatic Andrew Symonds and reaped the reward of his prodigious talent.

Think you'll find that was Ricky Pointing, that's who Symonds gives the credit too!!!!!

[WellardSaint]

I'd prefer a smaller player that gets the ball and kicks goals than a taller player who gets 3 effective disposals… I'm sure Holmes could bring the ball to ground and is also tall, more athletic, probably fitter.

Kosi played on too long for the sake of structure.

I don't mind paddy playing, but I think it's mainly on the basis of building experience at this stage… I don't think we are any worse when he's not in the side at the moment.

Why not drop Paddy to let him regain confidence, I am sure his replacement will get more than 3 touches

[Playon]

We couldn't possibly play 2 rucks considering one only offers tap outs and nothing else and neither can play forward.
Especially going up against a side that has midfielders, midfielders and more midfielders,

Gilbert wont be dropped he offers defensive pressure that we'll need, take him out of the side and there it goes. Were going to need it.

Marshall is rookie, wont and can't be selected.

Webster is on thin ice for sure, made some horrible decisions that were costly.

With Armo coming back? Is that good or not? Perhaps if he replaces either Ross or Dunstan, With the 3 of them in weve copped some huge beltings. Seems to make us too one dimensional. But I know this is what we'll do.

In regards to team balance who would take Paddy's spot? I thought this was obvious, Roo of course, but we also have the option of sending Carlisle forward.

Players to come in, i'd be looking at
Steven, Armo, Stevens, Sinclair and Long

But only a possible 3 outs.
Lonie, Billings and Paddy

[Joe Bloggs]

Gilbert, gone.

Please do it

Omg ..U are In bed with Wellard Saint.

[supersaints]

Gilbert - Omitted, not required down back, replaced by another mid - Koby Stevens
Lonie - Going OK but has others breathing down his neck - Long and Minchington
Savage - needs to go back to HB and perform - McKenzie
Billings - Omitted, but AR will take safe option in Wright to do a job - Sinclair
McCartin - Omitted, a ruckman initially and Hickey fwd Ruck. But Marshall in the wings - Longer
Webster - Needs to use it well - Rice

Steven another week, if he is fit, Sinclair emergency
Armo, VFL to prove fitness

Easy option is to bring in Armo and Wright, give talented kids a go

The rest are doing fine

Seniors
Roberton-Brown-Geary
Webster-Carlisle-Montagna

Longer-Steele-Dunstan
Newnes-Ross-Riewoldt

Weller-Membrey-Sinclair
Lonie-Bruce-Hickey

Acres-Gresham-Stevens-Savage (first 3 to rotate through the middle/fwd) Savage rotate back

Emergency
Long-Rice-Minchington

Reserves (Long held off as emerg)
LeGrice-Gilbert-Rice
White-Ficsher-McKenzie

Holmes-Minchington-Curran
Billings-Armitage-Phillips

Wright-Marshall-Cooke
Battle-McCartin-Weikhardt

Pierce-Answerth-O'Kearney-Verma

Development Saints
Goddard-Freeman-Connelan-Baker/Thomas-Joyce

Replacements in order ATM
Tall Defender - Gilbert
Third tall defender - Gilbert
Small Defenders - Rice, McKenzie, White

Outside Mid - Billings
Inside Mid - Armitage

Tall Fwd - Marshall, McCartin
Small Forward - Long, Minchington, Wright

Ruck - Holmes, Pierce

Changed your mind have you bigmart? Didn't you post that Hickey And Longer could not play in the same team??? We had a few differences about this... I'll just remind you


Re: Why do people want to trade Longer?
so where for Longer when Hickey is on the ball and visa versa???

wont happen

not a club in the AFL successfully plays two genuine ruckmen who cant play elsewhere

our game is built on speed and pressure... how will playing two lumbering ruckmen help this
by BigMart
Sat 30 Jul 2016 10:06pm

Forum: Saintsational Fan Forum (open to all ages)
Topic: Why do people want to trade Longer?
Replies: 52
Views: 1251

[supersaints]

Gilbert - Omitted, not required down back, replaced by another mid - Koby Stevens
Lonie - Going OK but has others breathing down his neck - Long and Minchington
Savage - needs to go back to HB and perform - McKenzie
Billings - Omitted, but AR will take safe option in Wright to do a job - Sinclair
McCartin - Omitted, a ruckman initially and Hickey fwd Ruck. But Marshall in the wings - Longer
Webster - Needs to use it well - Rice

Steven another week, if he is fit, Sinclair emergency
Armo, VFL to prove fitness

Easy option is to bring in Armo and Wright, give talented kids a go

The rest are doing fine

Seniors
Roberton-Brown-Geary
Webster-Carlisle-Montagna

Longer-Steele-Dunstan
Newnes-Ross-Riewoldt

Weller-Membrey-Sinclair
Lonie-Bruce-Hickey

Acres-Gresham-Stevens-Savage (first 3 to rotate through the middle/fwd) Savage rotate back

Emergency
Long-Rice-Minchington

Reserves (Long held off as emerg)
LeGrice-Gilbert-Rice
White-Ficsher-McKenzie

Holmes-Minchington-Curran
Billings-Armitage-Phillips

Wright-Marshall-Cooke
Battle-McCartin-Weikhardt

Pierce-Answerth-O'Kearney-Verma

Development Saints
Goddard-Freeman-Connelan-Baker/Thomas-Joyce

Replacements in order ATM
Tall Defender - Gilbert
Third tall defender - Gilbert
Small Defenders - Rice, McKenzie, White

Outside Mid - Billings
Inside Mid - Armitage

Tall Fwd - Marshall, McCartin
Small Forward - Long, Minchington, Wright

Ruck - Holmes, Pierce

Changed your mind have you bigmart? Didn't you post that Hickey And Longer could not play in the same team??? We had a few differences about this... I'll just remind you


Re: Why do people want to trade Longer?
so where for Longer when Hickey is on the ball and visa versa???

wont happen

not a club in the AFL successfully plays two genuine ruckmen who cant play elsewhere

our game is built on speed and pressure... how will playing two lumbering ruckmen help this
by BigMart
Sat 30 Jul 2016 10:06pm

Forum: Saintsational Fan Forum (open to all ages)
Topic: Why do people want to trade Longer?
Replies: 52
Views: 1251

[WellardSaint]

Gilbert, gone.

Please do it

Omg ..U are In bed with Wellard Saint.

SaintPav and I have a platonic relationship, thank you very much.
Separate rooms
But I agree with her

[Toy Saint]

It's Ok for those players to be on notice, really all of our players should always be on notice.

But we have a real chance to beat Collingwood on Sunday, get the year back on track and head for the finals. We must pick our very best team and try to win the game.

If we made all of those wholesale changes we'd probably blow the game, and the season....and probably get charged with deliberately tanking and bringing the game into disrepute.

[Toy Saint]

Gilbert, gone.

Please do it

Omg ..U are In bed with Wellard Saint.

No idea why so many are keen to dump Gilbert, he plays tall and small, plays back, has pace and creates run and carry through the mid field.

If Nick Riewoldt played for Collingwood, Sam Gilbert would be his natural opponent. Of course Riewoldt is the better player, but I reckon Gilbert would curb some of Roo's brilliance.

[BigMart]

For this week yes! Imo

Brodie Grundy is too strong for Hickey

Hickey to give us ascendancy as a number 2

Hickey to take Paddys spot fwd, he can't be any slower or more inept than McCartin was last week

When Hick is on the ball, Longer off

Blake or Roo fwd

Acres can rotate through the forward line, as can Steele and Koby

[Con Gorozidis]

Gilbert, gone.

Please do it

Omg ..U are In bed with Wellard Saint.

No idea why so many are keen to dump Gilbert, he plays tall and small, plays back, has pace and creates run and carry through the mid field.

If Nick Riewoldt played for Collingwood, Sam Gilbert would be his natural opponent. Of course Riewoldt is the better player, but I reckon Gilbert would curb some of Roo's brilliance.

Gilbert basically plays loose unaccountable man in defence.
Even then he only manages 13 disposals a game.
Recurring theme seems to be that he isnt our worst so he gets picked.
Has not had a top 10 B & F finish since 2010.
http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... am-GILBERT

[spert]

I think the problem is not so much players, but the whole team attitude- there are a few players just not switched on so far this season, and the team is not quite together as a group. I tend to point the finger at AR, as he really needs to get that team up and about and playing the good footy they showed later last season. I think there are still problems with team structure and plays, as the opposition seem to be able to counter a lot of our set ups, but we got away with it last week as the Lions are not that strong. Right now there is no way we are going to trouble the top bunch of teams.

[WellardSaint]

In my view, last year was good for changing and learning, "taking a big scalp" (Cats) but getting belted interstate was depressing.
This year should be about building on last year's lessons.
The fellas seem to have worked out how to play interstate, but that's the single obvious improvement over 2016.

Bwoose is still not holding his marks, Paddy has gone backwards, Skunk has been worked out (Bernie Vince tagged him and beat him in disposals 30-15),
Weller is just a ghost of his 2016, and overall, the skill levels are Auskick standard.

I wonder if this Sunday will be a watershed, where all the ducks line up for the boys, and they have a hard-fought win over the Filth by bringing skill as well as pressure?

Or, the big holes in the team get bigger and the dam bursts, and they run the Filth into form.
It's a 70/30 chance that the boys get creamed by Buckley's crew.
My reasoning is, no matter how much AR bangs on about pressure, if you ain't got the skills to hurt the enemy, it's coming back with interest.
And pressure brings fatigue.
That Perth game, in the final 10 minutes of each quarter, the lads were empty- tackles can't stick when you're tired and can't jump to grab a player who's done a baulk.
Huge number of missed tackles.
Every game is important, but the FIlth is a danger game and may well be a sad indicator of the rest of the season.

I predict a Filth win by 5-6 goals

[RODOS]

I'd say on notice is/should be:


Bruce - Missing too many shots, not providing enough in the ruck - Marshall again

There's some really dumb stuff in this thread, but this wins.

lol, if you can't give a player that's not at or near his best a rocket then what can you do

but you're right, bruce on notice is overkill. What do you think about the others?