Billings and mccartin

[SuperDuper]

If we were guaranteed Paddy would have a career like Kosi's I for one would take it!

Kosi was nowhere near worth a pick 1. If Kosi was in this years draft and we knew what his career would be, full knowledge, I would not take him in the top 20

[Joffa Burns]

So our #1 pick is now a role player, so Membrey gets a lesser defender?

Btw
McGovern rarely takes the main forward, in fact the opposite... he likes to play off his man, so they send him to the second or third... like Carlisle or Roberton
Grundy plays on the slowest tall... always has...

I think we can just say, he is struggling.

So is Boyd.

Unless you have a Delorian, you look forward and adapt and not back and endulge in self pity. At this point in time the bloke on 17 career games is playing a role (shock horror).

Boyd might not have reached the height of his key forward draft status, but at least he has been able to move into the ruck and fulfil a second role. Being a mobile 200cm player with reasonable endurance he was in the best 3 on the ground in a grand final.

How do you think Paddy would go in the ruck?

[repta]

Kosi was more flexible because he could ruck.
McCartin has no mungrel.

[Con Gorozidis]

I'll get abused for this but my opinion is Billings just doesn't quite care enough.
If the AFL doesn't work out he has a rich dad and will just go and play for Old Scotch and get a corporate job.

[CURLY]

Comparing Paddy with Lockett is always going to be unfair because Plugger was a freak. He kicked 77 and 79 goals in his second and third years. Physique is probably the only real basis for comparison. Marking ability? Plugger was able to impose himself on a contest in a way that McCartin isn't able to do. I guess the recruiters were hoping that McCartin would be a G Train or a Barry Hall, but he just doesn't seem to have their strength, speed or aggression.

Big difference is that when Plugger dropped the mark and the defender spoiled he would butter up and pick it up off the ground, dodge, weave, break some tackles and bang though a snap on the run. He did this time and time and time again.
Usually the defender would fall over trying to defend and plugger would stay on his feet and burst free.

Plugger almost never fell over in a contest.
Same goes for Carey.
That is why they were guns.

McCartin, like Kosi, seems to fall over all the time. Not a good sign. Worries me.

Paddy has played 19 games and at a guess I'd say no more than 4 in full in a row. Paddy may go to ground in a contested marking situation as he always goes so hard to compete in the air. Plugger was a freak but wasn't contending with zones and group defence to the extent these blokes are.

[CURLY]

I'll get abused for this but my opinion is Billings just doesn't quite care enough.
If the AFL doesn't work out he has a rich dad and will just go and play for Old Scotch and get a corporate job.

Seriously that's just stupid and out of line. Have you ever been involved in football Con as that's rubbish that you can even suggest that.

[CURLY]

So our #1 pick is now a role player, so Membrey gets a lesser defender?

Btw
McGovern rarely takes the main forward, in fact the opposite... he likes to play off his man, so they send him to the second or third... like Carlisle or Roberton
Grundy plays on the slowest tall... always has...

I think we can just say, he is struggling.

So is Boyd.

Unless you have a Delorian, you look forward and adapt and not back and endulge in self pity. At this point in time the bloke on 17 career games is playing a role (shock horror).

Boyd might not have reached the height of his key forward draft status, but at least he has been able to move into the ruck and fulfil a second role. Being a mobile 200cm player with reasonable endurance he was in the best 3 on the ground in a grand final.

How do you think Paddy would go in the ruck?

How do you think Boyd would go as a key forward? The answer is rubbish that's why he isn't stationed there.

[PremiershipSaint]

How much of it is down to poor recruiting versus poor coaching/development?

[saint-stu]

I'll get abused for this but my opinion is Billings just doesn't quite care enough.
If the AFL doesn't work out he has a rich dad and will just go and play for Old Scotch and get a corporate job.

Seriously that's just stupid and out of line. Have you ever been involved in football Con as that's rubbish that you can even suggest that.

You should get abused. What value are you adding by making that comment?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[st.byron]

If we were guaranteed Paddy would have a career like Kosi's I for one would take it!

Kosi was nowhere near worth a pick 1. If Kosi was in this years draft and we knew what his career would be, full knowledge, I would not take him in the top 20

Agree with this. Apart from some early highlights, Kosi was average.

[ROLS-LEE]

If we were guaranteed Paddy would have a career like Kosi's I for one would take it!

Kosi was nowhere near worth a pick 1. If Kosi was in this years draft and we knew what his career would be, full knowledge, I would not take him in the top 20

Agree with this. Apart from some early highlights, Kosi was average.

kosi only performed during the years of contract negotiation.

[desertsaint]

If McCartin is just in the team for structure then we wasted a number one pick. The lad needs games, and is getting them, but he certainly isn't earning his spot. I hope it isn't hurting his confidence. Billings is a headscratcher. Those two were clearly our worst today. Maybe both should get a decent spell at Sandy to get some touch back.
On McCartin - my big worry is that he doesn't have the aggression you want from a big forward. He lacks the agility and spring to get quickly to his feet when he hits the ground, and he lacks a tank and seemingly the will to run himself into the ground. None of these things can be taught. His size and marking ability may have helped him dominate juniors, but seniors catches many a large junior out.
We've done a good job rebuilding with mid and low picks these last five years, but may have blown our biggest two. Need to get this years first rounders right.

[bigcarl]

Paddy might be a Hawkins I reckon - the kind of guy who takes a few years to get going but then becomes a monster. He has a mature head on his shoulders which is a good start. r.

He just had one of those games where he couldn't get into it. Timing was off and just out of sorts. He was well beaten, but I've seen that happen to even the best of key forwards. Persevere, he'll be okay.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Always felt there was a dangerous psychological effect in play at the drafting table.

Every expert and his dog is screaming that Petracca is the clear standout.

The recruiting team, however, feels the need to earn their dosh, so look for reasons
to go against the grain.

Hope I'm wrong, but please don't remind us all that Lenny Hayes was average until
his fourth year. Aaron Fiora was average in his first year and his eighth. Most players are.

[SydneySainter]

I think Paddy has certainly proven that he'll be a handy player for us.

Was he worth his pick 1? Maybe not, and Petracca may well end up being the better of the two, but I think there is still plenty to be excited about in McCartin and I don't think one disappointing game is worth getting too worked up over. Instead of thinking about what else we could have gotten with pick 1, I'm thinking about what we got, which is still an exciting player.

Billings on the other hand may is becoming a worry.

[BigMart]

Can we not make comparisons between Boyd, Kosi, Hawkins, Kennedy (another thread), Jenkins, Casboult, Cloke

They are ver different

They are either Fwd Rucks or 'Bears in the Square'

Whilst they are not agile, they have a distinct Advantage with size... Which Paddy does not have

Hawkins 197 and 108
Kosi 197 and 94
Kennedy 197 and 100
Jenkins 197 103
Casboult 197 105
Cloke 195 104

They are power forwards in a size and strength sense

Paddy is a leading forward, with no speed, power, endurance

And what's with the dropping of marks... He dropped a soda yesterday that an u16 would take

[BigMart]

And Billings,

I know his issue, watched it yesterday... He simply just doesn't work hard enough. He cruises around he ground, and hopes for the footy to come to him.

He needs to get behind the footy.... Because wing or forward

He just doesn't work hard

[Johnny Member]

I'll get abused for this but my opinion is Billings just doesn't quite care enough.
If the AFL doesn't work out he has a rich dad and will just go and play for Old Scotch and get a corporate job.

I don't think it's that TBH.

I just think he's soft. Not soft as a person, and not soft compared to the average human - but soft as an AFL player.


He doesn't have the physical toughness to hold tackles etc., he doesn't seem to have the competitiveness to be prepared to die to win a contested ball (like Selwood and/or Dangerfield), and doesn't seem to have the mental toughness to go back and slot goals when required.

He greatly disappoints me.

He took that massive grab yesterday and I thought 'Wow!'. Then he passed sideways to a bloke in a worse position to take the shot at goal!? Then 10 minutes later pulled out of a marking contest that he needed to influence, which took us from a 2 on 1 on our half forward line to giving up a goal.


His career thus far is littered with this sort of stuff.



I really don't like calling footballers 'soft', as it suggests that I'm tougher and could do better. Let's be clear - I'm not and I couldn't. But as an AFL footballer, he's just nowhere near hard enough physically or mentally. I'm not sure that can be coached into him. Hopefully it comes with time as he matures and gets confidence in his body.

But at the moment, I can't understand how on earth he gets games.

[Johnny Member]

As for McCartin, he's good.

I don't like the role he's playing, but I suppose someone needs to do it. I think he'll be very good and will clearly take time.


No alarm bells ringing for mine with Paddy.



IMO, think less Tom Hawkins and Nick Reiwoldt, and more Jaryd Roughead with Paddy.


Interesting....


Roughead's 2007 Season (when he turned 20):

Games Total: 58
Games (season): 22
Kicks: 5.3
Marks: 3.5
Handballs: 3.9
Hawthorn Ladder Position: 5th
Goals: 1.8


Paddy's 2016 Season (he turned 20):

Games Total: 17
Games (season): 11
Kicks: 5.1
Marks: 4.4
Handballs: 1.9
Saints Ladder Position: 9th
Goals: 1.3

[Moods]

And Billings,

I know his issue, watched it yesterday... He simply just doesn't work hard enough. He cruises around he ground, and hopes for the footy to come to him.

He needs to get behind the footy.... Because wing or forward

He just doesn't work hard

Goddard in his early years was exactly the same.

[saynta]

Paddy has played 19 games, give the kid a break.

Yep.plus one.

Some of the comments on here are just disgusting.

[saynta]

Comparing Paddy with Lockett is always going to be unfair because Plugger was a freak. He kicked 77 and 79 goals in his second and third years. Physique is probably the only real basis for comparison. Marking ability? Plugger was able to impose himself on a contest in a way that McCartin isn't able to do. I guess the recruiters were hoping that McCartin would be a G Train or a Barry Hall, but he just doesn't seem to have their strength, speed or aggression.

Who is comparing plugger and paddy?

Not me. I was responding to a comment that they were the same height. They are not as paddy is 2cm taller. Full stop. End of comparison.

[The Fireman]

#1 pick down the drain..I don't see this comment as disgusting...moreso fact.

[Con Gorozidis]

Good call Member.
I think Roughead is the correct comparison.
Here is hoping.
My main issue is just Paddy keeping his feet.
I don't expect him to mark everything and kick 100 goals.
Just stay in the contest and be an option.

[BigMart]

Objectively compare the agility and running capacity of Roughead and Paddy.

Roughead, Cloke, Brown, Hall, Tex and all of those lead up Power Forwards we can compare him to, have one major advantage.

All were also powerful runners, who got separation and had huge engines for big men

And why is it 'disgusting' to criticise a professional sportsman in an elite competition... Particularly a supposed top end talent

He does not escape criticism, just like any player... It nothing personal

It's football