Billings and mccartin

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Joffa Burns
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659566Post Joffa Burns »

Con Gorozidis wrote:Good call Member.
I think Roughead is the correct comparison.
Here is hoping.
My main issue is just Paddy keeping his feet.
I don't expect him to mark everything and kick 100 goals.
Just stay in the contest and be an option.
Roughead regularly played as a ruck rover style clearance player in the Centre square.
Has also rucked and kicked plenty of snapped goals and ground level goals from clearances and throw ins.
Roughy and Paddy are not nearly similar in playing style, not remotely.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659569Post PremiershipSaint »

What is Billings worth in a trade?


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659572Post BigMart »

First round pick


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659573Post barneyboyz »

Yesterday we would have won by 100 points, if not for some missed goals early that let a (not so bad side this year) have a sniff. from there it was always going to be a slog, especially as the poor goal kicking continued until late

That 100 point win may well have seen Paddy kick 4 - 5.

That kick from JB was the right thing to do and had it come off would have started the 100 point win.

I would keep JB & Mc C together in the forward line and for ffs, never let them read SS

My observations of footy this year so far are that some very good sides have had difficulties in shaking off lesser sides, once they get a sniff.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659574Post spert »

Right now I would say Battle will develop as the better forward than Paddy. Seems to have a bit more X-factor and intensity from the games I seen so far. Paddy still looks a long way off peak physical condition that we would expect at senior AFL level and really should be starting to assert himself more on the games, but seems to be going the other direction...worries me a bit. In the case of Billings, are we expecting more than the guy can produce? He has a lot of skills and class, but seems to do just enough and no more.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659576Post Johnny Member »

BigMart wrote:Objectively compare the agility and running capacity of Roughead and Paddy.

Roughead, Cloke, Brown, Hall, Tex and all of those lead up Power Forwards we can compare him to, have one major advantage.

All were also powerful runners, who got separation and had huge engines for big men

McCartin
Season 2016
Age 20
Games
(Career) 17
(Season) 11
Kicks 5.1
Handballs 1.9
Marks 4.4
Goals 1.3

Team
Position
9th



Cloke
Season 2005
Age 18
Games
(Career) 15
(Season) 15
Kicks 7.9
Handballs 2.0
Marks 3.5
Goals 0.7

Team
Position
15th



Hall
Season 1997
Age 20
Games
(Career) 19
(Season) 15
Kicks 4.7
Handballs 3.9
Marks 3.5
Goals 0.9

Team
Position
1st



Roughead
Season 2007
Age 20
Games
(Career) 58
(Season) 22
Kicks 5.3
Handballs 3.9
Marks 3.5
Goals 1.8

Team
Position
5th



Franklin
Season 2005
Age 18
Games
(Career) 20
(Season) 20
Kicks 7
Handballs 3.6
Marks 3.8
Goals 1

Team
Position
14th



Walker
Season 2009
Age 19
Games
(Career) 14
(Season) 14
Kicks 6.3
Handballs 1.6
Marks 4.1
Goals 1.6

Team
Position
5th


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659578Post Johnny Member »

Joffa Burns wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Good call Member.
I think Roughead is the correct comparison.
Here is hoping.
My main issue is just Paddy keeping his feet.
I don't expect him to mark everything and kick 100 goals.
Just stay in the contest and be an option.
Roughead regularly played as a ruck rover style clearance player in the Centre square.
Has also rucked and kicked plenty of snapped goals and ground level goals from clearances and throw ins.
Roughy and Paddy are not nearly similar in playing style, not remotely.
At the same age and level of experience, I think they're similar.

Roughead played as a forward in his early days, and only ventured up the ground as his body developed and he gained experience.

By the time Roughead was McCartin's age, he'd played 58 games. And you can see their comparative stats above at that time.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659581Post Johnny Member »

Jeremy McGovern, similar in body shape and the same height - didn't even get a game until he was 22. McCartin hasn't turned 21 yet.

It takes certain dudes more time to mature physically, and it takes certain dudes more time to mature in a footballing sense.


The figures above show that even a guy like Roughead at the same age, but with 40 more games under his belt was still only getting the ball twice more each than McCartin. A guy like McGovern wasn't even getting a game at the same age due to his body not being developed enough.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659587Post saintsRrising »

I think that Hawkins is also probably a good comparison.

The Tomahawk too was a bt ofa lumberer and had "puppy fat" for a while,


Paddy vs Tomahawk at 20

2016 Stats for Season 2007
11 Games 9
5.1 Kicks Per Game 5.8
1.9 Handballs Per Game 2.8
7.0 Disposals Per Game 8.6
4.4 Marks Per Game 3.7
1.3 Goals Per Game 1.3
0.6 Behinds Per Game 1.1
0.4 Tackles Per Game 1.0

I am not sure that Paddy will every be a superstar. However he does have footysmarts which is something some players never acquire. He is moving to the right spots and has had many "almost" games. I would expect that more experience and fitness that he will continue to improve.

I also think that even though at the time that I said that I would have preferred Petracca, that we had to the luck to have the No 1 pick ina year where there were not the out and out superstars of some years.


Billings: At this stage he shows the signs of being probably a good, but not great player for us. I suspect that in a good team that he will be very useful with his kicking, but that in average or worse team that you will never see the best of him.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659588Post dragit »

McCartin needs some confidence with a few big bags of goals in the VFL, nothing to be gained from not getting a kick week after week at AFL level… he'll come good with time.

I've seen enough in Billings to know that he can and will make it, he's far too good to be pegged as a GOP. I have to wonder about his development, he's certainly not getting the most of himself at the moment, looks down on confidence.

Does he know what his role is?

Have they given him the confidence to just take shots on goal when he has the chance?

They were both poor yesterday no doubt, but it would be silly to write either of them off… Billings is capable of a BOG next week, can the club get the best out of him?


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659589Post jonesy »

The comparisons of billings with Fiora are really off the mark






Fiora was a much better kick...


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659590Post CURLY »

BigMart wrote:Can we not make comparisons between Boyd, Kosi, Hawkins, Kennedy (another thread), Jenkins, Casboult, Cloke

They are ver different

They are either Fwd Rucks or 'Bears in the Square'

Whilst they are not agile, they have a distinct Advantage with size... Which Paddy does not have

Hawkins 197 and 108
Kosi 197 and 94
Kennedy 197 and 100
Jenkins 197 103
Casboult 197 105
Cloke 195 104

They are power forwards in a size and strength sense

Paddy is a leading forward, with no speed, power, endurance

And what's with the dropping of marks... He dropped a soda yesterday that an u16 would take
Just not true just bulls*** to be honest.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659597Post Johnny Member »

BigMart wrote:Can we not make comparisons between Boyd, Kosi, Hawkins, Kennedy (another thread), Jenkins, Casboult, Cloke

They are ver different

They are either Fwd Rucks or 'Bears in the Square'

Whilst they are not agile, they have a distinct Advantage with size... Which Paddy does not have

Hawkins 197 and 108
Kosi 197 and 94
Kennedy 197 and 100
Jenkins 197 103
Casboult 197 105
Cloke 195 104

They are power forwards in a size and strength sense

Paddy is a leading forward, with no speed, power, endurance
He's 194 though.

1-3cms isn't that distinct really.


McCartin is currently playing as a leading forward, but that's to say that that is the player he is. He could end up a McGovern style backmen for all we know.


Point being, that at age 20 and with only 20 games experience - it's very hard to determine exactly what a 194cm kid who clearly isn't fit will become.


As per the stats of other big kids the same age/experience levels, he's certainly not too far off the pace, even though he's appeared underwhelming.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659599Post lewdogs »

Have to say it's pretty damn pathetic how quick some are to sink the boot in to our young guys when they have a poor game. As supporters we should support. Billings has been pretty good in the first two rounds, has a poor game and suddenly everyone is saying he doesn't care and looks like he wants to retire, and Paddy is a dud.

Absolute bulls***. Tiresome, childish bulls***.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659600Post Impatient Sainter »

Im calling it regardless of age I believe both draft selections (McCartin & Billings) were/are shockers. Trout can pump up his tyres all he likes but the two most important drafts he got OUR selections wrong!


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659601Post longtimesaint »

Impatient Sainter wrote:Im calling it regardless of age I believe both draft selections (McCartin & Billings) were/are shockers. Trout can pump up his tyres all he likes but the two most important drafts he got OUR selections wrong!
Anyone can make great selections in hindsight


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659602Post dragit »

Johnny Member wrote:
BigMart wrote:Can we not make comparisons between Boyd, Kosi, Hawkins, Kennedy (another thread), Jenkins, Casboult, Cloke

They are ver different

They are either Fwd Rucks or 'Bears in the Square'

Whilst they are not agile, they have a distinct Advantage with size... Which Paddy does not have

Hawkins 197 and 108
Kosi 197 and 94
Kennedy 197 and 100
Jenkins 197 103
Casboult 197 105
Cloke 195 104

They are power forwards in a size and strength sense

Paddy is a leading forward, with no speed, power, endurance
He's 194 though.
He's listed as 195cm & 100Kgs on wikipedia now

Jenkins is 28 and hadn't played a single game at McCartin's age
Casboult is 27 and has averages worse than Paddy at 20 years of age


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659613Post MC Gusto »

cut paddy some slack. as most have said he has played 20 odd games and due to injury has barely strung 3 in a row

billings on the other hand is nearing the 50 game mark and other than about 4 standout games has had very little impact for such a high pick


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659614Post Johnny Member »

Impatient Sainter wrote:Im calling it regardless of age I believe both draft selections (McCartin & Billings) were/are shockers. Trout can pump up his tyres all he likes but the two most important drafts he got OUR selections wrong!
Clearly got it wrong on Bont. Clearly.

But it's far too early to say on McCartin IMO.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659617Post whiskers3614 »

Con Gorozidis wrote:
whiskers3614 wrote:If we were guaranteed Paddy would have a career like Kosi's I for one would take it!
A witch's hat who takes the odd pack mark and boots a long goal?
But agree. Kosi actually probably better.
Do you think Paddy will ever get 14 Brownlow votes in 4 consecutive weeks?
Don't just judge Kosi on his last year!


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659618Post Con Gorozidis »

lewdogs wrote:Have to say it's pretty damn pathetic how quick some are to sink the boot in to our young guys when they have a poor game. As supporters we should support. Billings has been pretty good in the first two rounds, has a poor game and suddenly everyone is saying he doesn't care and looks like he wants to retire, and Paddy is a dud.

Absolute bulls***. Tiresome, childish bulls***.
Just as childish to think all our players are guaranteed future stars and we are three years away from a certain premiership.
Just because you are young and or a high draft pick doesn't make you a certainty.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659621Post BigMart »

So we want our #1 draft selection to be compared to Jenkins and Casboult

Rookie Selections

1 in a horrible team, and one of the reasons they are horrible is because he is their key forward

Jenkins, the beneficiary of having one of the best forward lines of modern times around him
He is a 197cm beast, but cannot be the focus of defence, because of a freak forward pocket, a gun CHF, a very good medium sized mobileforward, another medium sized marking forward, a second skilful fast indiginous small... they are a complete forward line, he sits over the back of the press and kicks goals.

Anyway

Point I was making had zero to do with ability comparison, but player type.

On the Hawkins comparison, at his best he monsters opponents... Paddy likely to do that?


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659626Post dragit »

BigMart wrote:So we want our #1 draft selection to be compared to Jenkins and Casboult

On the Hawkins comparison, at his best he monsters opponents... Paddy likely to do that?
You brought them into the conversation…

And yes paddy will one day monster opponents, maybe when he's 25 with 100+ games to his name.


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659627Post saint64 »

whiskers3614 wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
whiskers3614 wrote:If we were guaranteed Paddy would have a career like Kosi's I for one would take it!
A witch's hat who takes the odd pack mark and boots a long goal?
But agree. Kosi actually probably better.
Do you think Paddy will ever get 14 Brownlow votes in 4 consecutive weeks?
Don't just judge Kosi on his last year!
I agree. I thought Kosi was terrific when he had to go into the ruck in the GF (2010?)


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Re: Billings and mccartin

Post: # 1659630Post BigMart »

I believe I said we can't compare them, and they were compared, go figure?

So we wait 7 years for our number one draft pick to monster key defenders?

Which teams are going to have a 190cm Full Back he can rag doll? Maybe James Gwilt will make a comeback??

Tom Hawkins is an enormous man, much bigger than Paddy, if Paddy ever got as heavy as he or Cloke, he'd be even slower.


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