Billings and mccartin

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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby CURLY » Mon 17 Apr 2017 4:15pm

BigMart wrote:His kicking was really poor, he found the ball a lot.

Seem to get too close to opponents before kicking, needs to pull the trigger quicker


His kicking was excellent other than his his goal kicking. When he was hitting up targets through the middle it opened Collingwood up. To suggest differently is just wrong.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby Johnny Member » Mon 17 Apr 2017 4:20pm

CURLY wrote:
BigMart wrote:His kicking was really poor, he found the ball a lot.

Seem to get too close to opponents before kicking, needs to pull the trigger quicker


His kicking was excellent other than his his goal kicking. When he was hitting up targets through the middle it opened Collingwood up. To suggest differently is just wrong.



He went at 57%.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby CURLY » Mon 17 Apr 2017 4:33pm

Johnny Member wrote:
CURLY wrote:
BigMart wrote:His kicking was really poor, he found the ball a lot.

Seem to get too close to opponents before kicking, needs to pull the trigger quicker


His kicking was excellent other than his his goal kicking. When he was hitting up targets through the middle it opened Collingwood up. To suggest differently is just wrong.



He went at 57%.


Missed a couple of handballs and scrubbed a kick other than that he was brilliant by foot.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby Dave McNamara » Mon 17 Apr 2017 11:56pm

silverhalo wrote:
silverhalo wrote:
Dave McNamara wrote:As for Billings.

No one (that I read anyway) on here called for Nicky Dal's cuz. I also heard (read?) that the Poodles have said that they'd have taken Billings ahead of Bontempelli.

That said, Billings looks like one of those types who will improve as the team improves around him. He also seems to very much like playing on the MCG.
http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2016/3/stk-v-coll

But best of all, neither Paddy nor Jack B are... Jack Watts. :mrgreen:


Let me say that I think Billings will be very good in the years to come, but I did pick it...I'm not trying to be a smart arse, I'm just saying:-

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83574 (Page 1)

Re: Pick 3- who will we take?
Postby Watts the Buzz » Mon 21 Oct 2013 6:13pm

If it was up to me, I'd make the unpopular choice of going with Bontempelli - a really quick tall midfielder, excellent mark, booming kick, mature body and has the X factor - just looking at footage of him, he has that touch of class and there's no doubt that it's genetic - could be at least as good as DAL in my opinion.


By the way, I was 'Watts the Buzz' in a previous incarnation in reference to the messiah Scott Watters who was to lead us to the Holy Grail

I stand corrected Silvers. Take a bow. That's really impressive. Great call. I hope you post more. :D
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby Dave McNamara » Mon 17 Apr 2017 11:57pm

st.byron wrote:
BigMart wrote:... If he fires something at me, like he did in another thread... I will reply.
... And it's a continuation of a derogatory back and forth between the two of you that's been going on over multiple days on multiple threads.

That's why I included you in the warning to Stonecold about your ongoing dispute. Agree you have not been the primary protagonist in that, but you have played your part in keeping it going, as above.

But it does all make for great theatre. Where's Mat and his popcorn when we need him? :lol:
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby The OtherThommo » Thu 20 Apr 2017 8:22pm

This says more than most submissions on the subject of Jack #2:

Round 4 AFLCA Champion Player of the Year Votes
Collingwood v St Kilda

9 Seb Ross
5 Jarryn Geary
5 Dylan Roberton
4 Jimmy Webster
3 Taylor Adams
2 Jeremy Howe
1 Jack Billings
1 Brodie Grundy

His pre and post half time split was around 1:2 on the possession front.

Odd how our pre and post half time scoring comparison was around the same (barring the late cheapies for Fat Head Ed's inadequate outfit).

I well recall Kingsley talking post pre-season games, about Jack #2's form. To paraphrase, 'He's doing what we want him to do, working the other way. But, we really like the ball in his hands when we're going forward. He sees things not many do, and provides opportunities to score'.

I have no doubt he will exceed the expectations of those who love to watch athletic robots, and reckon everyone should play like an athletic robot.

Me? I love players with the innate feel for the game, and who can see the angles and depth before anyone else.

The most underrated quality in modern footy? Depth perception.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby ace » Thu 20 Apr 2017 8:41pm

The OtherThommo wrote:The most underrated quality in modern footy? Depth perception.


You mean they don't measure the distance between the players pupils at the draft camp.
The greater the space between the pupils the better the parallax and hence perception of distance.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby The OtherThommo » Thu 20 Apr 2017 9:18pm

ace wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:The most underrated quality in modern footy? Depth perception.


You mean they don't measure the distance between the players pupils at the draft camp.
The greater the space between the pupils the better the parallax and hence perception of distance.


Uh, ah - you're disregarding the 3rd dimension.

At it's simplest:

"Parallax is a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines.[1][2] The term is derived from the Greek word παράλλαξις (parallaxis), meaning "alternation". Due to foreshortening, nearby objects have a larger parallax than more distant objects when observed from different positions, so parallax can be used to determine distances."

"Depth perception is the visual ability to perceive the world in three dimensions (3D) and the distance of an object. Depth sensation is the corresponding term for animals, since although it is known that animals can sense the distance of an object (because of their ability to move accurately, or to respond consistently, according to that distance), it is not known whether they "perceive" it in the same subjective way that humans do."

To impart force on an object, (e.g.) on this planet, with an intent for it to land somewhere, isn't just about angles and distance, it's about gravitational pull.

And, that's the element that most affects depth perception, irrespective of the distance b/w a kid's pupils.

Even if that's not quite right, I do like the way it reads.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby The OtherThommo » Thu 20 Apr 2017 9:30pm

ace wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:The most underrated quality in modern footy? Depth perception.


You mean they don't measure the distance between the players pupils at the draft camp.
The greater the space between the pupils the better the parallax and hence perception of distance.


I've just recalled an example.

3rd quarter, I think, we're going to left of screen. Jack #2 has the ball, edge of the centre square, far side of the camera position. He sees Joey getting out the back of 2 opponents in front, on the opposite side (nearer the camera) - half forward'ish. He hits it, gives it a bit more air than his usual, up she goes, and does it so well that Joey took about 1 step, set his arms and hands as if to just let the ball lob gently in his hands.

One of the Fat Head Ed rubbish mob jumped high enough to just get a hand to it, and Joey was left with empty hands and a surprised look on his face, that it hadn't actually landed where he'd perceived it would.

2 players had similar depth perception - the kicker and the receiver. Beaten by a stretch and a touch of gravity.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby WellardSaint » Thu 20 Apr 2017 10:21pm

ace wrote:
The OtherThommo wrote:The most underrated quality in modern footy? Depth perception.


You mean they don't measure the distance between the players pupils at the draft camp.
The greater the space between the pupils the better the parallax and hence perception of distance.

We need genetically modified players who have eyes set as wide as one of those fish that I can't bother looking up
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby spiral3 » Thu 20 Apr 2017 10:59pm

CURLY wrote:
BigMart wrote:His kicking was really poor, he found the ball a lot.

Seem to get too close to opponents before kicking, needs to pull the trigger quicker


His kicking was excellent other than his his goal kicking. When he was hitting up targets through the middle it opened Collingwood up. To suggest differently is just wrong.


BigMart is right on this one, I watched the replay over the last couple of days and JB's kicks were touched off the boot at least 3 times.
Seemed like the opposition were dialed into his wind up.

No doubt he has great vision and is able to open up the game beautifully with his kicking.
But he needs to be wary of this, smothered kicks are dangerous.

Nice to see him hauling in a few marks this year too. He was touted to be a good aerialist but I hadn't seen much of it before this year.
Seems to be getting some real confidence and with that will come some exceptional footy. He seemed to get a bit of swagger as the game went on last week, very nice to see.
Nice run through the middle between two Pies players late in the game.
If he can keep his body together and continue building fitness and confidence he will be a very damaging player.

I think his inside work is interesting too, he tackles pretty well in close (not on the spread though from what I've seen), has clean hands & good vision to get to ball out.
One issue though is his inclination to lose his feet in a contest.
He often unnecessarily goes to ground or dives forward when gathering/releasing the contested ball. Needs to try and stay on his feet and keep more options open.
He doesn't have natural mongrel and that do or die desire to win the contest/footy like a Bont/Lenny but he does have a go and seems to working on this area.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby kalsaint » Fri 21 Apr 2017 4:02am

whiskers3614 wrote:If we were guaranteed Paddy would have a career like Kosi's I for one would take it!


He will but many here got into Kosi a lot too, especially after a few best on ground performances showed his talent when in form.

There needs to be an understanding between Membrey, Paddy and Bruce that benefits them all. I remember watching Kosi and G train working well together but when Nick came closer to goal the overall benefit was lost for several reasons. 1 Was Nick lead to Pockets and demanded attention to strong leads and often was not best placed to shoot for goal. His average at Perth was 1 goal 5 behinds.

When Nick moved up the ground Kosi and Fraser seemed to avoid each other at contests and this meant an opportunity for a mark or better use of the smaller forwards in front of goal. When Nick took the play to the pockets small forwards tended to be lost in space or covered by taller defenders.

Now I am not kicking Roo here as the Weagles played Subiaco better and their gut running was also better than the Saints then. Roo was a stand out in this regard and therefore became a target by our side. It just meant that goals shooting effectiveness was not what it should have been.

Fast forward to 2017 and ditto, shooting efficiency is poor again. It basically stems from the inability to provide quick ball movement by our midfielders and the lack of ability of younger forwards to get off their opponents. Learning that skill and developing the body for this will take time. Paddy needs more time to develop this.

We have improved in the last season or so but I still believe that we needed the gun mids to enable this rather before picking a good tall forward. I understand the urgency given Nick was not supposedly not going to be around to coach the forwards. I'm certainly not having a go at Paddy, just think the selection order was wrong per year.

In recruitment since 2000, we seem to have tossed out the option of recruiting tall forwards. We have had plenty around 180-192cm. Perhaps Bruce was a good choice (196cm) after moving forward.

In the midfield we took Luke Ball over Judd. Hodge was selected by Hawthorn only in the last few days prior to selections, although the club had eyes on him albeit they had concern with his Osteitis pubis. As it turned out Ball had this too.

We took Goddard the year later after Caaarlton cheated and enabled us with a higher pick. Clarke then Dal Santo were added another year later. We ended up with an injured highly rated inside player, a speccy taker who got lots of soft tissue injuries and a smooth operator with silky skills, who was great but never fast as a outside player. No one had the outside running speed other than Fiora, whereas opposition always seemed to have them.

We were continually beaten by teams that were gut runners. Grant Thomas noted this. Ross set up a new game plan based on team defence that matched the team attributes and then he added Dempster for a bit of pace. No further pacey outsiders were introduced. We weren't skilled kickers over that time, bar Dal and Goddard who could absorb opposition team pressures or were given free reign along with Chips to be the generals for ball carriage. Without our speed, loss of Goddard and Dal Santo hurt team performance badly but was necessary for team development. We still didn't seem to recruit outside mids. Even now we have introduced small forwards and our investment in outside mids are injured.

In short we never had the midfield depth to overcome the outside running team weakness from 2004 onwards. We had a huge list of inside mids recruitment from other teams. All coaches called for effort as a prime need. GT = kpis on effort. Ross team defence and zones were more strategic. Scott Watters = ball speed but at a huge loss of team defence that we didn't have the conditioning or bodies for. Richo has instilled the effort and team defence again. He is yet to get the quick ball movement consistently. He has invoked ball carrier protection better than in preceding years that has helped significantly to provide time to enable improved kicking but now we cant get set shots at goal!? Our foot skills have not been at the same level of good opposition since 2004. We have targeted some players in recruitment to address this but at AFL level, they haven't been realised. I think Jack Billings needs more time and protection for this. He unfortunately is one of the many missing set shots. Training is obviously not meeting the game need of the foot skills, yet.

Please use draft picks for quality midfielders. One who breaks packs, can move forward and kick goals ( eg Petracca) the other with huge endurance and kicking / marking skills (Josh Kelly)._
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.

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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby Con Gorozidis » Fri 21 Apr 2017 4:38am

People here have a very much exaggerated view of Kosi.

Yes we all remember his pack marks and his very good kicking from a set shot. His kicking for goal was very good. For sure. In fact he kicked 247.140 from 200 games. A moderate effort.

By comparison Justin Westhoff kicked 254 from 207 and spent much of his career in defence.
Schneids kicked 259 from 228 as a high half fwd but managed 3 tackles a game. Double Kosi.

SEN commentator David Schwarz managed 243 from 173 games. The much maligned Nick Holland managed 239 from just 179. Clearly better than the big Kos. Kent Kingsley 239 from just 123. Miles better than the Big Kos. Nick Davis 235 from 182 but played a similar role to Schneids.

So even when we add some real perspective to Kos as a goal kicker - we then have to be realistic about his talents when he didnt mark it. The cold hard truth is is he was average as a marking fwd.... but when he didnt mark it he was probably bottom 1% of the afl. An absolute witch's hat and a liability once it hit the ground.
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby BigMart » Fri 21 Apr 2017 8:09am

That's an ok analysis if goals are the only measure of performance
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Re: Billings and mccartin

Postby Toy Saint » Tue 25 Apr 2017 9:16pm

Watching the Anzac Day game, it's pretty obvious that Collingwood need a strong key forward.

Surely they must have an eye on Paddy McCartin, he's exactly what they need. And he's not getting a game at St Kilda.

Just imagine how good Paddy would be with Collingwoods midfield getting the ball to him.

At the risk of forum abuse, I reckon they could justify offering him $1m per year on a 5 year contract.

If that happened, I'd be devestated. But hey, if we're not playing him....
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