Where are all the Lyontologists?

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Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 02 Apr 2017 8:34pm

Hail the super coach!

How is the cult of Lyon traveling?
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Enrico_Misso » Sun 02 Apr 2017 8:48pm

Luckily The Shockers have him signed up till the end of 2019 :D :D

Tipping Fyfe will decide if Lyin Lyon stays till 2019 then he might as well leave if he wants success.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Joffa Burns » Sun 02 Apr 2017 8:49pm

I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Saint_J » Sun 02 Apr 2017 8:51pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Hail the super coach!

How is the cult of Lyon traveling?


F him best thing that happened our club was him leaving. one trick pony.......
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Moods » Sun 02 Apr 2017 8:57pm

Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby saynta » Sun 02 Apr 2017 9:16pm

Yeah, stuff him, he is gone. Cooked goose.

Serve Freo right. The two deserve one another.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby saynta » Sun 02 Apr 2017 9:17pm

Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.


He actually cost us two flags.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Bluthy » Sun 02 Apr 2017 9:22pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Hail the super coach!

How is the cult of Lyon traveling?


Time are doing a cover story on him

<Mod edit: image removed as it was causing some distress and discomfort within the community>
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Johnny Member » Sun 02 Apr 2017 9:48pm

Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.



Disagree.

I could barely watch us play.


To me, it was always like watching Jon Fitch fight. He went 10-0 but you always knew that on the biggest stage he couldn't 'win' the title. You need to 'win' titles in any sport.

You can't just get the ball over the net and wait for your opponent to make errors.

No one, in any sport, ever, wins titles like that. If they do, it's incredibly rare.


You've got to win them.


Lyon didn't have that mentality, and as a result we lost 09. Bizarrely, he actually nearly won 2010 by trying to win it after half time! He nearly pulled it off! But then even more bizarrely, reverted back to his failed Plan A in the replay. We got flogged.



Flawed strategy, which was obvious at the time.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Moods » Sun 02 Apr 2017 9:55pm

Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.



Disagree.

I could barely watch us play.


To me, it was always like watching Jon Fitch fight. He went 10-0 but you always knew that on the biggest stage he couldn't 'win' the title. You need to 'win' titles in any sport.

You can't just get the ball over the net and wait for your opponent to make errors.

No one, in any sport, ever, wins titles like that. If they do, it's incredibly rare.



You've got to win them.


Lyon didn't have that mentality, and as a result we lost 09. Bizarrely, he actually nearly won 2010 by trying to win it after half time! He nearly pulled it off! But then even more bizarrely, reverted back to his failed Plan A in the replay. We got flogged.



Flawed strategy, which was obvious at the time.



Well no other coach we've had has even come close tbh.

We were smashed in the 97 GF by a pretty average team tbh. The teams that beat us in 09/10 were superb teams, and they just got over the top of us. I've never understood the Lyon hate. He was a Sainter and if nothing else brought a level of professionalism to the club that we'd never seen. For some reason some seem to hate him more than Collingwood. He tried his best and left us for greener pastures. For those who didn't rate him, I would think they'd be happy that he left.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Joffa Burns » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:01pm

saynta wrote:
Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.


He actually cost us two flags.


GT cost us flags with his lack of tactics, defence and game plan.

Ross took a team that most thought was cooked after GT and turned them into grand finalists.

Yours is one of the silliest comments I have read.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Moods » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:07pm

Joffa Burns wrote:
saynta wrote:
Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.


He actually cost us two flags.


GT cost us flags with his lack of tactics, defence and game plan.

Ross took a team that most thought was cooked after GT and turned them into grand finalists.

Yours is one of the silliest comments I have read.


Exactly right. Sometimes I wish I had a time machine and we could go back in time. Our era was apparently over once Lyon took over, especially after 08 (we were smashed in the prelim) Everyone thought we were cooked. 09 came as a massive surprise.

By the end of last year Richo was the best thing that ever happened to the Saints. Now plenty are questioning plenty about him and apparently always felt this way. Who'd be a coach? :lol:
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:10pm

I still dont understand why people keep saying 2010 Collingwood were a great side. I just cant see it. It is a myth we have invented to comfort ourselves.
This side included Toovey, Macaffer, Wellingham, Blair, Davis and Dawes.
Dawes FFS!
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby White Winmar » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:23pm

His greatest strengths turned out to be his greatest weaknesses. Cost us at least the 2009 fag from the box. Should've walked that one in. He was brilliant in getting us there. Coudn't finish the job because of his limitations.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Johnny Member » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:39pm

Moods wrote:

Well no other coach we've had has even come close tbh.

We were smashed in the 97 GF by a pretty average team tbh. The teams that beat us in 09/10 were superb teams, and they just got over the top of us. I've never understood the Lyon hate. He was a Sainter and if nothing else brought a level of professionalism to the club that we'd never seen. For some reason some seem to hate him more than Collingwood. He tried his best and left us for greener pastures. For those who didn't rate him, I would think they'd be happy that he left.



I'd called exactly what happened in the GF of 09, the 'unlosable' GF, 6 months before it happened. It panned out precisely as I'd said. Precisely.


You win Grand Slam finals. You might make the quarters, the semis, or even the a final occasionally by getting the ball back over the net time and time again and letting your opponent make errors. But in the final, you've got to win it. You need to win it.


Lyon didn't roll like that. It was called months out from the GF of 09 and it happened exactly like that. He's on record as sending the runner out with the directive to 'bomb it in and put them under pressure' with 15 mins to go in the last quarter against Geelong. Seriously, that was his directive. That's how he expected us to win the flag, with our foot on their throat, to let them make an error.

Guess what? It's a GF, You're playing the 2nd best team in the comp., they got there because they don't make simple errors when the heat is on. That's why they're there - you need to win it. Not hope they lose it.
Last edited by Johnny Member on Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Johnny Member » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:42pm

Joffa Burns wrote:
saynta wrote:
Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.


He actually cost us two flags.


GT cost us flags with his lack of tactics, defence and game plan.

Ross took a team that most thought was cooked after GT and turned them into grand finalists.

Yours is one of the silliest comments I have read.


?

To be fair, taking 6 players out of a Preliminary Final team will make even the world's greatest tactician's job pretty tough.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Johnny Member » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:46pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont understand why people keep saying 2010 Collingwood were a great side. I just cant see it. It is a myth we have invented to comfort ourselves.
This side included Toovey, Macaffer, Wellingham, Blair, Davis and Dawes.
Dawes FFS!



Not sure they were a 'great side' as such, but they did finish on top and then win both finals by nearly 10 goals leading into the GF, and had the best player in the comp running around for them.

That's a dominant season by any team's standards.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby saynta » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:53pm

Joffa Burns wrote:
saynta wrote:
Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.


He actually cost us two flags.


GT cost us flags with his lack of tactics, defence and game plan.

Ross took a team that most thought was cooked after GT and turned them into grand finalists.

Yours is one of the silliest comments I have read.


Rubbish.

Dont you like hearing the truth about your hero.

He didnt develop our youth.

Failed to play one of our best players at crucial points in the 2009 grandfinal.

Said he forgot.

He then forced said player to leave the club and join our opposition along with a champion fullback who was devastated to be left out of the side.

If Ball had been played in the last quarter in 2009 and on our side in 2010, chances are we would now have three cups.

My original post was short and to the point as I thought most people knew the resultsof his short sightedness .

We were well rid of the lying devious turd.
Last edited by saynta on Sun 02 Apr 2017 11:04pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Johnny Member » Sun 02 Apr 2017 10:53pm

Moods wrote:
Exactly right. Sometimes I wish I had a time machine and we could go back in time. Our era was apparently over once Lyon took over, especially after 08 (we were smashed in the prelim) Everyone thought we were cooked. 09 came as a massive surprise.



Why? Cause Rod Butterss said so?


We were beaten in 06 in a 'home' final against Melbourne at their home ground. GT was sacked days later, and we were later told that he'd already been sacked regardless of what we did that finals series.




FWIW, I'd rather coach Reiwoldt, Milne, Kosi, Dal, Goose, Fisher, Ball, Gilbert, Goddard, Baker, Joey, Gram as 25-27yo's than as 21-22yo's.



Anyone who thinks we were cooked with those guys moving into their mid 20s is delusional. Isn't that the precise age bracket everyone waits for when expecting success??
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby saynta » Sun 02 Apr 2017 11:03pm

Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote:
Exactly right. Sometimes I wish I had a time machine and we could go back in time. Our era was apparently over once Lyon took over, especially after 08 (we were smashed in the prelim) Everyone thought we were cooked. 09 came as a massive surprise.



Why? Cause Rod Butterss said so?


We were beaten in 06 in a 'home' final against Melbourne at their home ground. GT was sacked days later, and we were later told that he'd already been sacked regardless of what we did that finals series.




FWIW, I'd rather coach Reiwoldt, Milne, Kosi, Dal, Goose, Fisher, Ball, Gilbert, Goddard, Baker, Joey, Gram as 25-27yo's than as 21-22yo's.



Anyone who thinks we were cooked with those guys moving into their mid 20s is delusional. Isn't that the precise age bracket everyone waits for when expecting success??


Correct.

Look, I'm a fan of GT's and hate Tosser Lyin with a passion.

There has to be a reason for that.

Happy with the way I feel about these two, and I can assure you I will never change.

I just hate posters trying to ram crap down my throat as facts.

These are all just opinions.

Mine as valid as anyone elses.

To call my post the silliest ever is extremely rude, but funny nevertheless in view of the crap posted on here most days.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Scollop » Sun 02 Apr 2017 11:33pm

Johnny Member wrote:
Moods wrote:

Well no other coach we've had has even come close tbh.

We were smashed in the 97 GF by a pretty average team tbh. The teams that beat us in 09/10 were superb teams, and they just got over the top of us. I've never understood the Lyon hate. He was a Sainter and if nothing else brought a level of professionalism to the club that we'd never seen. For some reason some seem to hate him more than Collingwood. He tried his best and left us for greener pastures. For those who didn't rate him, I would think they'd be happy that he left.



I'd called exactly what happened in the GF of 09, the 'unlosable' GF, 6 months before it happened. It panned out precisely as I'd said. Precisely.


You win Grand Slam finals. You might make the quarters, the semis, or even the a final occasionally by getting the ball back over the net time and time again and letting your opponent make errors. But in the final, you've got to win it. You need to win it.


Lyon didn't roll like that. It was called months out from the GF of 09 and it happened exactly like that. He's on record as sending the runner out with the directive to 'bomb it in and put them under pressure' with 15 mins to go in the last quarter against Geelong. Seriously, that was his directive. That's how he expected us to win the flag, with our foot on their throat, to let them make an error.

Guess what? It's a GF, You're playing the 2nd best team in the comp., they got there because they don't make simple errors when the heat is on. That's why they're there - you need to win it. Not hope they lose it.


The truth that buries the myth of his great coaching right there.

The essense of Lyon and all coaches for that matter who have found themselves fortunate enough to have been in a situation to win a flag, with a team they inherited, is that without the 'cattle' they are nothing.

Lyon did not help put a list together. He did not create great footballers. He did not re-invent the list or reinvent a player and turn him into a great defender or a great forward or midfielder. If he had the skills and creativity to do that he probably would have won us a flag.

In 2009; Lyon had a team at 16 and zip - then 17 and zip and by his actions and team selection I think he probably feared that he might lose a few games and the team might not finish on top of the ladder. Instead of declaring privately to his paleyers that we were going to win the premiership he still wanted to play 'one week at a time'. He waited until we were 18 and zip before he agreed to rest our stars. Even machines need to be managed and rested. Any coach worth one's salt would have realised that he had an awesome powerful machine under his control, and all he needed to do was guide it to the finish line and make sure he didn't thrash it too much while he was a lap ahead.

Great coaches re-invent, adapt and keep inspiring and motivating their players. Lyon's message is becoming old and tired and he has a negative influence on players in my opinion. He stifles youngsters through a lack of caring and a lack of ability to genuinely embrace development. He does not plan to build a finals team - he only wants to coach one. He has proven with both clubs that he has a use by date.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby desertsaint » Mon 03 Apr 2017 2:02am

Joffa Burns wrote:
saynta wrote:
Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.


He actually cost us two flags.


GT cost us flags with his lack of tactics, defence and game plan.

Ross took a team that most thought was cooked after GT and turned them into grand finalists.

Yours is one of the silliest comments I have read.

Lyon was a good coach, but he had the reigns when roo, hayes, goddard, fisher, ball, milne, dal santo, dempster, joey, and schneider were at their peak. Not too mention he had two very, very good ruck men. he tried and failed to find the missing pieces and relied on journeymen. he only needed to find or develop a couple.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby saynta » Mon 03 Apr 2017 11:19am

desertsaint wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:
saynta wrote:
Moods wrote:
Joffa Burns wrote:I was a huge Ross fan in his time with us, unfortunately for Ross it appears he cannot adopt to the modern attacking run and gun game style.


Yep. Me too. people have short memories. Best coach I've seen at the saints and his style of play at the time had us playing a brand everyone is using now and have improved upon. Unfortunately his weakness is list management.

Would I want him still coaching the saints? No way. I still regard those two years we made GF's as the best 2 years watching footy as both years we nearly won a flag.


He actually cost us two flags.


GT cost us flags with his lack of tactics, defence and game plan.

Ross took a team that most thought was cooked after GT and turned them into grand finalists.

Yours is one of the silliest comments I have read.

Lyon was a good coach, but he had the reigns when roo, hayes, goddard, fisher, ball, milne, dal santo, dempster, joey, and schneider were at their peak. Not too mention he had two very, very good ruck men. he tried and failed to find the missing pieces and relied on journeymen. he only needed to find or develop a couple.



yep.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby dragit » Mon 03 Apr 2017 12:16pm

I think he has conceded the year already, vowing to "play this kids" from now on. LOL.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby meher baba » Mon 03 Apr 2017 12:24pm

It's intriguing to watch the continuing demise of Fremantle under Lyon.

Like Saynta, I have never hidden my support for GT when he was coach. Looking back, I feel that GT's time in charge was the only time since the late 60s/early 70s that our team roamed the playing field with the swagger of champion team: the self-belief that enables us to keep taking risks and attacking our opponents. Teams with that level of self-belief - eg, what we saw from the Weagles on Saturday night - regularly crush weaker opponents, and always give the other top teams a battle. Even when they get 4-6 goals behind, they keep playing like they believe they can come back.

GT might not have been a technical wizz (although I think that he was better than some people thought), but gee he was good at instilling self-confidence in our players. However, rightly or wrongly, he lost the confidence of the board and the fans, and eventually he had to go.

Then we got Lyon, who was billed as a technical wizz. And, after the two years required to teach our players how to play his style of game, we started to do well again and made two GFs. But it was a different style of play: we strangled the attack of our opponents and half-strangled ourselves, typically winning low-scoring games by small margins. We won game after game in the regular season, but we struggled a bit in the finals. We were very lucky not to lose the PF to the Dogs in 2009 (hard though it is to believe now, we owed our win significantly to the heroic efforts of Raph Clarke in the final quarter), and then, while we were clearly a better side in the GF, we choked badly. Then, in the 2010 finals, we crushed Geelong as we should have done in 2009, but struggled again in the GF, only kept in the game by the Pies choking even worse than we did in 2009. But the Pies luckily held on for a draw, and then failed to choke in the replay and we were crushed. And then in 2011 we fell to pieces. And all through the time that Lyon was at the club, we never seemed to have anything like the swagger and confidence that we had under GT, or that top clubs like Geelong or Hawthorn have had over the past decade, or that the Bulldogs have now.

It doesn't really surprise me that Lyon's strangulation approach hasn't worked too well with the Dockers. It was always going to be a problem that the wide open spaces of Subi Oval favour a more attacking style than do the postage stamp SCG (where Lyon developed his approach) or the relatively small Docklands. But I think we are also seeing the confidence thing at work: Lyon just doesn't seem to be very good at instilling self-belief in his teams. When the Lyon master plan seems to be working well - as it did for us in 2009 and 2010 and at Freo for the first year or so - the players exude a strong faith in the plan, but perhaps not so much in themselves or their abilities. When you think about Lyon's terms at the Saints and Freo, it's hard to think of too many players who developed significantly, and easy to identify those who went backwards.

So, all in all, I have mixed feelings about Lyon. The guy can clearly coach very well within the rather tight parameters he sets himself, and he did take us to successive GFs, which is a big achievement. But I personally prefer the sort of coach who is not only a dab hand with the whiteboard, but is a leader of men: who can turn a group of talented players into the sort of unit that runs out each week expecting to dominate and destroy its opponents.

I don't know whether or not Richo will turn out to be this sort of coach. Obviously, Saturday night was very disappointing, but I for one really loved watching the way our guys had a red hot go at the Eagles. If we can actually win a few games playing the way we did, the confidence and swagger might eventually come. One can only dream.
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