Where are all the Lyontologists?

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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Teflon » Sun 28 May 2017 12:35am

Johnny Member wrote:
Teflon wrote:
samoht wrote:Joffa Burns wrote ...

"All the planets need to align for success, but coaching is an integral link in the chain"

Indeed they do! But once the planets align - you just need an AFL coach... doesn't need to be anyone in particular.
Re: the coach being an integral link - which coach are you referring to - the 19-0 coach or the 0-10 coach?
Can't you see it's the circumstances that are the major determinant here - not a particular coach with supposed superpowers.


I meant Knobel --- not Cook -- in the 2004 final vs port Adelaide - Knobel had 22 hitouts and zero possession around the ground! Zilch, not one! One of his hitouts went straight to Wanganeen who kicked the winning goal.
What about Hamill being injured and missing the game?
Goddard was injured very early in that match.
That's what you call bad luck - and yet despite all this we only fell short by 1 goal to the side that went on to smash the Lions and win the flag.

That year we were the strongest team - We deserved to win the premiership under GT (or under any other AFL coach who happened to be coaching us).
Adverse circumstances stood between us and the flag. Our planets refused to lign up - and it wasn't the coach's fault!


I think you're stating the obvious.
No one suggests the coach plays the game or doesn't need the cattle but that doesn't mean a great coach doesn't and can't extract more from a top list or even a mediocre one above and beyond a lessor coach
No different to great managers
Coaches after all manage people...... I've worked for great managers and morons.... there's a difference
Is the influence factor 90-10 in favour of playing group? Probably, but I'd argue that the ability to extract consistently great performances from your team is a vital 10%. Great coaches do that.


I think the point is that the difference between the say, top 10 coaches in the comp is minimal. Therefore, it's a bit of a nil all draw when it all comes down to it.


I get that but we cant measure that so who knows?
is Alan Richardson as good as Luke Beverage? who knows....so we are back to lists vs lists
I see dumb people...
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sat 10 Jun 2017 11:13pm

Freo % = 78.5

Awful.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Joffa Burns » Sat 10 Jun 2017 11:26pm

Enrico_Misso wrote:
BigMart wrote:Probably needs to be stated that GTs teams copped a number of key injuries at important times

That is a succinct 17 word summary of the GT era.


Don't forget the umpires and the AFL were agsinst us as well :roll: :roll:
Weak excuses!
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby saintbrat » Sat 10 Jun 2017 11:56pm

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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 02 Jul 2017 9:07pm

Back where he belongs.
Down the bottom with a terrible %.
Picks two ruckmen and one injured one.
He truly is both stubborn and stupid.
Handed us the game at the selection table.
Thanks Ross :D
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Enrico_Misso » Sun 02 Jul 2017 9:33pm

Up yours Ly'in :D :D :D :D
"Understand that you are all custodians of the St Kilda Football Club...you are responsible for making the difficult decisions to make this Club great. Those decisions will not always be popular, for popular decisions are easily made - but those that will truly make us great are those that challenge us most." - Allan Jeans as told to Chris Pelchen 2012.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Spinner » Sun 02 Jul 2017 9:43pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Back where he belongs.
Down the bottom with a terrible %.
Picks two ruckmen and one injured one.
He truly is both stubborn and stupid.
Handed us the game at the selection table.
Thanks Ross :D



Didnt the second ruck keep them in the game?

You really need to get over it - the constant need to validate after every Freo loss. No comments when they win, especially given they were last, last year.

What I don't get is the anger and resentment towards him - Con, if you think he's such a bad coach you should be happy and greatful he left. Rather than be a bitter sook.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby samoht » Sun 02 Jul 2017 10:29pm

Lyon kept us down to a winning score. :D
Fyfe, Neale and Mundy plus Brad Hill and Walters are fair players - I can't help but think that if we had Brad Hill and Walters in our lineup today (and if Freo didn't, in other word) we'd have won by 10 goals, easy.

I think we need to recruit 2 players like Brad Hill plus Walters to transform us into a side that could win the GF.
Last edited by samoht on Sun 02 Jul 2017 10:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby White Winmar » Sun 02 Jul 2017 10:32pm

If we'd kicked straight we would've won by 6 goals.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Sainternist » Sun 02 Jul 2017 10:39pm

Suck a fart, Rossy!
The Saints are looking prettay...prettay...prettay...PRETTY GOOD!
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Teflon » Sun 02 Jul 2017 11:20pm

They lost S Hill before the game, Sandilands during Qtr 1 and the dude they kept out who went surfing?? Apparently a walk up 18 player so they did OK in that regard

I think in his prime Lyon was a good coach. I also think the game has caught up with him and he's still a dog for doing what he did .....but we made mistakes too

Lyon has never built a side up..... that to me is a black mark on his coaching career
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 16 Jul 2017 8:36pm

5 goals in a match.
Super coach.
Best in the business.
Genius.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Spinner » Sun 16 Jul 2017 8:55pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:5 goals in a match.
Super coach.
Best in the business.
Genius.



You're sad. 19 scoring shots each though... but still, the fact that we get belted by 61 points and this makes you feel better is scary...

Saints have done so much better since hey. You must feel vindicated. Well done.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby saintspremiers » Sun 16 Jul 2017 9:13pm

Double edged sword. Good to see To$$a and the Dockers likely out of finals calculations but we are presently Tiger9th with consecutive losses a distinct likelihood
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Scollop » Mon 17 Jul 2017 9:52pm

Spinner wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:5 goals in a match.
Super coach.
Best in the business.
Genius.



You're sad. 19 scoring shots each though... but still, the fact that we get belted by 61 points and this makes you feel better is scary...

Saints have done so much better since hey. You must feel vindicated. Well done.


I understand that you want to support the guy, that's fine, but the reality is he has failed so far as a coach. He left us in a dreadful way, and I'm not talking about the contractual side of things, I'm talking about the on-field situation. I wouldn't have been so vocal if he came out in 2009 and 2010 and admitted that he could have done things better, but according to Lyon it was all the players fault for denying him the glory he deserved. It was all just bad luck and bad kicking.

Hopefully one day, even the sycophants and kool aid sipping sucks will admit that Lyon played a large part in our downward spiral which started during his last year. History will assess his worth and I am confident that most astute judges will be able to look at his legacy in its totality - and there'll be 2 clubs to compare and assess now.

Lyon always thinks someone else is to blame and he and his supporters here and in the media have built the guy up to be unlucky when I believe he was very lucky that he got the top job at StKilda. He gained more from us than we gained from him. He sold us myth and his folowers in the media have perpetuated that myth.
Con Gorozidis wrote:If I have to explain how that works then dont reply because you are too dense to converse with.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Teflon » Mon 17 Jul 2017 10:42pm

Scollop wrote:
Spinner wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:5 goals in a match.
Super coach.
Best in the business.
Genius.



You're sad. 19 scoring shots each though... but still, the fact that we get belted by 61 points and this makes you feel better is scary...

Saints have done so much better since hey. You must feel vindicated. Well done.


I understand that you want to support the guy, that's fine, but the reality is he has failed so far as a coach. He left us in a dreadful way, and I'm not talking about the contractual side of things, I'm talking about the on-field situation. I wouldn't have been so vocal if he came out in 2009 and 2010 and admitted that he could have done things better, but according to Lyon it was all the players fault for denying him the glory he deserved. It was all just bad luck and bad kicking.

Hopefully one day, even the sycophants and kool aid sipping sucks will admit that Lyon played a large part in our downward spiral which started during his last year. History will assess his worth and I am confident that most astute judges will be able to look at his legacy in its totality - and there'll be 2 clubs to compare and assess now.

Lyon always thinks someone else is to blame and he and his supporters here and in the media have built the guy up to be unlucky when I believe he was very lucky that he got the top job at StKilda. He gained more from us than we gained from him. He sold us myth and his folowers in the media have perpetuated that myth.


More convenience drivel
Why don't you just face facts - the guys probably been our most successful coach in the modern era. Yes, to say that about someone who knifed us stings like a bitch but just man up and admit it.
I'd argue Lyin made our downward spiral a streeper descent than it might otherwise had been but most knew it was always coming, again more convenient Lyon bashing
I don't and never did like or buy into GT hyperbole - it was all corporate speak in my time I've heard a thousand times before, hollow and bereft of any strategic or tactical football smarts but even I can agree Thomas (after the Blight disaster) was good for the club. The rot started when he started to believe he was the messiah, from then it was always going to end ugly (especially when you take a lot of money off people and pretend you "didn't know" it was a loan...)
When it comes to Lyin at least be balanced - your bias is rewriting history ffs.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Scollop » Tue 18 Jul 2017 12:06am

The problem with sucks and sycophants is that they are and THEY WERE satisfied with Lyon and his coaching when we failed at the final hurdle. I choose not to call him "successful" or use any words which imply or suggest that St Kilda benefited from our association with Lyon.

The crux of my argument is centred around the fact that I believe we had a f***** awesome team and with the pre-lims in 2004/2005 we were following a path that had been taken by many clubs before ( and will be talen by many more clubs in the future) where the pain and experiences of those losses, more often than not leads to an ultimate premiership

No matter what you think of Grant Thomas, he helped set up some of the foundations and blueprint for the finals canpaigns that we had after he was sacked. As far as drivel is concerned, too many people here at SS accepted whatever drivel Lyon spoke while he was our coach, and too many wanted so badly to still be Lyontologists long after he had left the building.
Con Gorozidis wrote:If I have to explain how that works then dont reply because you are too dense to converse with.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Saint_J » Tue 18 Jul 2017 1:24pm

what is wrong with all you guys and Ross? He took us to two GFs and in the process of getting us there ruined our list. so what we were so bloody close to two flags not since 1997 have we been that close to a flag.

I was at the SYD final in 2011 that year we played such ugly footy it turned me off the game. It was horrible, I was praying we would move him on. when I was driving home from work and heard on the radio he was walking out it was like all my prayers had been answered. he had to go our brand of footy was rubbish. I know he wreaked the list but hey we made to back to back grannies. 08 09 10 great years for us. I really think it's time we move on and concentrate on the current issues at the club. at times we're playing lovely footy but there are issues, Lyon anit one of them.

he's a non-event now Sainters.
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Re: Where are all the Lyontologists?

Postby Teflon » Tue 18 Jul 2017 11:34pm

Scollop wrote:The problem with sucks and sycophants is that they are and THEY WERE satisfied with Lyon and his coaching when we failed at the final hurdle. I choose not to call him "successful" or use any words which imply or suggest that St Kilda benefited from our association with Lyon.

The crux of my argument is centred around the fact that I believe we had a f***** awesome team and with the pre-lims in 2004/2005 we were following a path that had been taken by many clubs before ( and will be talen by many more clubs in the future) where the pain and experiences of those losses, more often than not leads to an ultimate premiership

No matter what you think of Grant Thomas, he helped set up some of the foundations and blueprint for the finals canpaigns that we had after he was sacked. As far as drivel is concerned, too many people here at SS accepted whatever drivel Lyon spoke while he was our coach, and too many wanted so badly to still be Lyontologists long after he had left the building.


Funny I don't recall you whinging this hard in back to back GF years or when we a feared side winning 19 straight dominating the competition???

Again, Thomas IMO had a far better list - certainly a better bottom 6 than Lyon had and still couldn't get us there or anywhere near the dominance Lyon did.

You regale yourself in theory that somehow GT's ghost was the reason for Lyons success (I'd argue Tim Watson ineptedness as a coach had a bigger say in setting the list up....) while the rest of us deal in FACT that no coach in the modern era of the StKilda FC has anywhere near the record Lyon does.

Does that make him a nice man? No
Is he now cooked as a coach? I think so
But in 09/10 he was a top coach
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