Run and Gun

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BigMart
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Run and Gun

Post: # 1655350Post BigMart »

Bold movement off HB, manic pressure game and score on turn over, press high to create that hb/mid turn over. Switch direction from deep in the back half or slow play down the line and reset. Three tall/3 Small fwd structure with defence in the front half a necessity

That's seems to be our plan in a nutshell

However, a few queries

What happens when we are losing clearance? How do we employ a defensive mechanism to counter that?

How do we make it not a 'shoot out' against teams with a better midfield?

Why wasn't we able to capitalise on the fact Bernie Vince played as a third tall defender??
Why wasn't that isolated???
Instead it worked in their favour as he peeled off a taller opponent and was the 'go to' out of defence (with Lewis)

Why was Lonie on Lewis and not Wright?

Our inability to counter a momentum swing today, shows our coaching group went in with a plan - a bad plan
And never knew how to stop the bleeding

A truly dark day - today

And we're off to the West next week ...


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SaintWodonga
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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655355Post SaintWodonga »

I reckon Koby & Acres should come in. Ross & Weller were very underwhelming. I hope the Zebra's boys are up & about, they should know many will have a chance to play next week against WCE.


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655383Post ROLS-LEE »

SaintWodonga wrote:I reckon Koby & Acres should come in. Ross & Weller were very underwhelming. I hope the Zebra's boys are up & about, they should know many will have a chance to play next week against WCE.
I agree Ross and Weller had their worst game for us. If Weller kicked that first goal and stopped that momentum who knows. Ross just seemed slow and Dal Santo like when we did not have the ball.


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655395Post BigMart »

Ross is exposed on the outside

He is an inside and spread from clearance mid, not a start on the outside in space mid

You don't see Joey Kennedy, Jobe Watson, Libba, Matt Priddis or the like
Starting on a wing

Seb has a good engine

But in a straight line over 50 he is a draught horse


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655400Post samoht »

?


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Con Gorozidis
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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655468Post Con Gorozidis »

I am a broken record on this.
Individually Dunstan, Ross and Armo are all competent players.
But a midfield should be a team and greater than the sum of its parts. They should complement each other. These guys dont complement each other. They all play the exact same way. As a trio they are poor. This has been worrying me for three years and nothing has changed.


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samoht
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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655471Post samoht »

Con Gorozidis wrote:I am a broken record on this.
Individually Dunstan, Ross and Armo are all competent players.
But a midfield should be a team and greater than the sum of its parts. They should complement each other. These guys dont complement each other. They all play the exact same way. As a trio they are poor. This has been worrying me for three years and nothing has changed.
Spot on!
Our recruiters are loading up on the same type of players - all inside midfielders.
We couldn't fit both Ball and Armo in the same GF team - we had to choose between one and the other for balance, but now we want to fit 6 or more inside midfielders in the same team.
We are not recruiting for balance - or for players that can complement each other!
So we're getting it wrong at the recruiting stage.


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655484Post longtimesaint »

samoht wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:I am a broken record on this.
Individually Dunstan, Ross and Armo are all competent players.
But a midfield should be a team and greater than the sum of its parts. They should complement each other. These guys dont complement each other. They all play the exact same way. As a trio they are poor. This has been worrying me for three years and nothing has changed.
Spot on!
Our recruiters are loading up on the same type of players - all inside midfielders.
We couldn't fit both Ball and Armo in the same GF team - we had to choose between one and the other for balance, but now we want to fit 6 or more inside midfielders in the same team.
We are not recruiting for balance - or for players that can complement each other!
So we're getting it wrong at the recruiting stage.
We need more pace and run as we looked slow last night.
Also after quarter time we lacked the manic pressure which is vital for us to play our best.
Time to bring in Acres and McKenzie to give better run.
Dempster was missed as well.


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BigMart
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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655615Post BigMart »

You can't play with manic pressure for 120 mins

If that's our trump card, we won't be successful


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655627Post yipper »

Mate I think you have made your point. They lost a game of footy. Has happened before. May even happen again. But let's give our coaching team a chance to review it and get it right next week. They were disappointing yep. I am betting they feel pretty crap about it too.

Hickey Gawn match-up was crucial. Hickey let us down. He has played some really good footy for us and will again. I think it was a kick up the arse they needed.

Let's see how we are going in a few weeks.
Long season and we have just started. Lost round 1 last year too.
Hawks and GWS not doing so well either. Sydney had their pants pulled down by the power who are a fickle unit

Life goes on. Roll on next week. Richo? Get it right.


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BigMart
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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655633Post BigMart »

Perhaps focus on the game, not me


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655645Post yipper »

I did


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655653Post bigcarl »

Con Gorozidis wrote:I am a broken record on this.
Individually Dunstan, Ross and Armo are all competent players.
But a midfield should be a team and greater than the sum of its parts. They should complement each other. These guys dont complement each other. They all play the exact same way. As a trio they are poor. This has been worrying me for three years and nothing has changed.
I thought the addition of Gresham and Acres to the rotations in the latter part of last season shook it up a little. You can't have too many one-dimensional in and under types around the ball with no ability to break away. IMO if we stay with the current set up it places way too much pressure on Hickey/Steven to play a blinder every week.

Ross, I think, is a very good centreman who should never start on the wing


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Con Gorozidis
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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655655Post Con Gorozidis »

bigcarl wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:I am a broken record on this.
Individually Dunstan, Ross and Armo are all competent players.
But a midfield should be a team and greater than the sum of its parts. They should complement each other. These guys dont complement each other. They all play the exact same way. As a trio they are poor. This has been worrying me for three years and nothing has changed.
I thought the addition of Gresham and Acres to the rotations in the latter part of last season shook it up a little. You can't have too many one-dimensional in and under types around the ball with no ability to break away. IMO if we stay with the current set up it places way too much pressure on Hickey/Steven to play a blinder every week.

Ross, I think, is a very good centreman who should never start on the wing
+1


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655670Post degruch »

As soon as I saw those waffly fast handball drills I was worried we were in trouble...we had it up on the Dogs the last few seasons, why would we now try and emulate them? Some heads over the ball would have helped a lot...then they can run and gun to their hearts content. If I see us running in for contested ball standing upright again I'm going to projectile vomit.


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655736Post skeptic »

Con Gorozidis wrote:I am a broken record on this.
Individually Dunstan, Ross and Armo are all competent players.
But a midfield should be a team and greater than the sum of its parts. They should complement each other. These guys dont complement each other. They all play the exact same way. As a trio they are poor. This has been worrying me for three years and nothing has changed.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91959&hilit=armitage


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655771Post Linton Lodger »

Yes, that is our gameplan in a nutshell.

Richo talked about contingencies for when opponents get on top in his Presser. He basically said that we have systems/strategies for dealing with that (which I doubt he's going to reveal) and that we failed to implement them in midfield and the back half. That we became reactive rather than stick to our systems.

As the dust settles on the game, it really is looking like it was conditioning. Under fatigue focus is lost, decision making becomes errant and you get skill errors. Doesn't mean we got it wrong, just that Melbourne were better prepared.

I think the results over Round 1 demonstrate that pattern. No one is going to convince me that Port Adelaide are 5 goals better than Sydney (particularly on the SCG) and that Adelaide (even if they've gone up a level) are 10 goals better than GWS.

And I don't accept that Melbourne have a better midfield than ours, it was on the day, but the bulk of our midfield had a dirty day.


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655775Post mightysainters »

Their midfield is better than ours.. It's not even line ball.. Always was going to be.. That's their strength it's not ours..


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655905Post BigMart »

But we did not counter their strength? We tried to beat their strength.... but it only lasted for as long as we could put high pressure on them


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655907Post longtimesaint »

We beat them in the midfield twice last year with the only real difference was Lewis ,and the fact that Gawn beat bHickey instead of the other way around.


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BigMart
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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1655914Post BigMart »

Last year is exactly that...

Right now is relevant

And whilst Tom did take the honours against Gawn in '16 overall

What were the HOs to advantage numbers? How often did we employ a third??


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1656041Post Impatient Sainter »

Richo's game day coaching is his weakest link. He is obviously a very thorough planner, but if things dont go to script then he and his assistants are bereft of ideas. This is his 3rd year in the job you would think he would be starting to improve this facet of his coaching by now?


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1656046Post White Winmar »

How Melbourne got away with using a nine man, forward rushing defensive set up for as long as they did has got me beat. Had our coaches' box beat as well, apparently.


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Re: Run and Gun

Post: # 1656104Post Zed »

It looks like more clubs are playing the run and gun this year - which in some respects actually plays into our hands. More often than not its a style of play that uses the center corridor which is where we are going to defend. For us, run and gun & pressure suits the limitations of our list ie lack of class ball users.

Melbourne worked us out and showed every other club how to beat us. Spread by using the full width of the ground and dont allow us to congest it up through the middle.Clubs that have skillful players who use the ball should beat us using this tactic. Funnily enough, we will have trouble using this tactic ourselves, because half the players we rely on for our pressure + run and gun (eg Brown, Dempster, Gilbo, Wright, Geary,) have poor footskills that dont allow us to play a precision footpass kind of game. As such, I think we will end up putting all our eggs in the one basket this year. Hope you all like omelets.


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