For what it's worth

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tony74
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For what it's worth

Post: # 1655333Post tony74 »

I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day
2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us
4. It is extremely hard to coach against a new coach you have no template to base your strategies on-- and we were out coached. ( as Gold coast was )
5. The ball being thrown up, not bounced at the centre square didn't help.
6. A cliche but worth remembering-- the season is a marathon not a sprint we'll be OK

I'm being honest as I can, up to you if you want to believe me.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655334Post satchmo »

Thanks Tony. Might be a tough week at work!


*Allegedly.

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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655339Post BigMart »

We were flogged after 5 months of preparation

Anticipation

Rubbish


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655340Post SaintPav »

Thanks Tony.

Anyone see the other results?


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655342Post Trev from the Bush »

Good stuff Tony.

Just got home from the match and, after listening to the last qtr of Essendon v Hawthorn (and noting Power thumped the Swans) I don't absorb too much stress from today's result. Actually, I am in a happier place than I was at 3/4 time and certainly much more upbeat than I was when Rooey went down.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655352Post Linton Lodger »

tony74 wrote:I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day
2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us
4. It is extremely hard to coach against a new coach you have no template to base your strategies on-- and we were out coached. ( as Gold coast was )
5. The ball being thrown up, not bounced at the centre square didn't help.
6. A cliche but worth remembering-- the season is a marathon not a sprint we'll be OK

I'm being honest as I can, up to you if you want to believe me.
They're fair points.

On point 5, I noticed right from the start that Hickey was thrown out by the ball being thrown up. The Hickey/Gawn dual was always going to be pivotal to the result. That's why I was confident, as Hickey really gave Gawn a lesson both games last year. Unfortunately, I imagine Gawn was determined not to let that happen again. Gawn dominated, Hickey had an off night (he had a few mates), however our midfield were smacked after quarter time, we looked lethargic


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655360Post jonesy »

There was zero intensity , unstkilda like , simple as that


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655361Post mightysainters »

jonesy wrote:There was zero intensity , unstkilda like , simple as that
Absolutely agree.. Our zone was an absolute shambles because our players refused to push hard or pressure ball.. Was absolutely comical being at the game and watching it unfold.

Clearly we have a pace problem and you cant possibly play Steele, Dunstan, Ross, Armo in the same midfield.. All he same size, speed and extractor..but the EFFORT needs to be addressed because it was putrid


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655362Post saintsRrising »

tony74 wrote: . The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
.

Well that explains why so many of the team through in the towel today. They just gave up because we lost the ruck contest.

Sorry but your excuse does not excuse the appalling effort by the majority of the players against Melbourne.

If the coaches and players are not willing to face up to fact that they ALL under performed to the required level the Saints have no hope.

Just look at the number of easy goals the Dees got from getting a player out the back for example.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Sun 26 Mar 2017 3:03am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655365Post WellardSaint »

1. Gilbert. Why does this joke keep getting picked when he can't mark (194 cm should mark) and he has poor decision making, poor skills and opponents know all of his weaknesses. Remember how Clint Jones kept getting games in direct violation of all the rules of common sense. Stop gifting games to liabilities and look for assets.
2. BRING Acres in. He will get twice as many touches as Gilbo.
3. Gresham/Lonie. One NOT both. Can't have 2 of the same in the team.
4. Tony, are you Egyptian? because you're in de Nile
Last edited by WellardSaint on Sun 26 Mar 2017 3:36am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655369Post SuperDuper »

tony74 wrote: 2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us

Garbage.. just garbage.. we were smashed by their midfield.. Sure Gawn beat Hickey but there were plenty of other guys out there getting trounced as well .. Ive seen plenty of teams lose the ruck and win the game..

So sure., Gawn was influential but that contest did not decide the game

You missed as well aothert point:

7) We should have played Acres who at least can get the ball.


We just had no one getting their hands on the pill. Playing Lonie ahead of Acres is just so stupid that I am very concerned... it just displays such a shocking lack of football knowledge.. yet these selectors are highly paid professionals.. I mean, we all make mistakes but hotestly I am very concerned.. do they know what they are doing ?


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655372Post WellardSaint »

3rd qtr possessions:
Demons- 140
Witches hats- 70

The whole team should refund their match payments to the club. Put it towards the Moorabbin rebuild.
Club wants us to put in money that WE have worked for.
The players didn't work for yesterday's money so should give it back.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655373Post SydneySainter »

Some fair points, especially on the Hickey/Gawn duel.

But I think that has now exposed our greatest weakness - the midfield. We have a quite possibly one of the worst midfields in the comp, which may have been glossed over a bit last season because Hickey was playing so well. When he gets beaten, our lack of pace and polish in the centre is depressingly evident, especially when our line-breaker in Steven can't get first hands on the pill.

What I think most opposition will take from this game is that if you nullify Hickey, you'll be in the box seat to bank the 4 points.


Until we have an administration that demands success and a playing group that bleeds for the guernsey, St. Kilda will just be a sh*tty football club.
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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655374Post saintspremiers »

Thanks Tony.

Boys & Girls - from a team perspective, this pathetic loss will do a lot of good.

The weird throwing the ball up in the centre on a dry day, ridiculously hot and humid conditions are
both very rare or unheard of in combo. Not using that as an excuse, but good template to show how
mentally young our side is and an inabiiify to adjust on the day to adversity.

THAT is a second step on our path - we've got the skills and ability - we saw that in term 1 - but clearly not
full resilience under pressure yet.

It's only round 1 and often round 1 throws up bizarre results.

One of the worst aspects is that it's bad for membership takeup, but n against the odds
win in Perth next week would resolve that one.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655381Post saintbrat »

Throwibg up of ball was due to new surface bounce after the re-lay during the week
One Jade gresham run down the Medallion side I dont think the ball bounced higher than his knees and certainly didnt come back straight -he did well to control it


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655384Post Toy Saint »

tony74 wrote:I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day
2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us
4. It is extremely hard to coach against a new coach you have no template to base your strategies on-- and we were out coached. ( as Gold coast was )
5. The ball being thrown up, not bounced at the centre square didn't help.
6. A cliche but worth remembering-- the season is a marathon not a sprint we'll be OK

I'm being honest as I can, up to you if you want to believe me.
Thanks Tony, fair points.

We were absolutely smashed in the middle. Why was the ball thrown up and not bounced? It was bounced at other games.
The humidity in the stadium was extreme, perhaps Melbourne handled it better than us.
Our boys dropped their heads in the 3rd quarter, very dissapointing.
Our coaches didn't seem to have a plan B - they needed to do something at 10 mins into the 3rd quarter to change the momentum.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655385Post dragit »

I had a terrible dream last night that we were smashed by Melbourne in a ten goal turnaround and Riewoldt hurt his knee.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655388Post Johnny Member »

I can't remember a game, or even a quarter over the past two years, that hasn't hinged almost entirely on Jack Stevens' input.

He doesn't fire - we don't. It's almost as simple as that.


It's a glaring lack of midfield quality that is our issue.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655394Post Junior »

Thanks for be input Tony.

Agree about Hickey and Gawn and Rhys we were out coached.

The concern for me was that there was no plan B and also our midfielders looked like they could not run.

Why we allowed Nelbourne to start with seven or eight backs and we started with four or five forwards has me stuffed. It was not working but kept happening


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655396Post BigMart »

I suppose if you look hard enough you can see or find what you need to excuse that

I'll just go with what's obvious

We were smashed by a better team


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655398Post scallopsroe »

The one ruckman selection policy is a massive fail. We were slaughtered all night around the ground, even at quarter time the hit out were 17 to 3. It was only a matter of time before Melbourne got the benefit of a superior ruck and boy did they use that advantage well.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655399Post BigMart »

If one inferior ruckmen was getting a hiding

Wouldn't adding another inferior ruckmen make little difference

Only that we would have been even slower?


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655401Post mullet »

Hi Tony

You say the 3rd man up was always going to hurt us.

Can you please elaborate on this. It was not a surprise, everyone knew this would happen why werent we prepared. Are you saying we have no answer to this. I'm quite concerned if Richo hasnt been able to come up with a solution. It basically says our Rucks are no good. I cant quite understand why this has not been addressed.

Tony thanks for your contributions , and I'm not intending to shoot the messenger, I just dont get it.

Quite frankly I am gutted after yesterday.


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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655402Post spert »

One game doesn't make the season, but yesterday's game was prime example of the holes we have as a team, and why we won't be serious finals contenders.

Our midfield is lacking class and quality. Melbourne knew the importance of building a top midfield, and even looking at our win against them last season, they got more of the ball, but didn't use it well, but yesterday they fixed that problem. In our case, block Jack Steven away from the play, and we will probably lose.

Watching the forward line in the JLT games was not very encouraging- no real structure and too top-heavy. As much as I want Paddy to succeed, I don't think he will- he is injury-prone with a history now of concussion issues, and the occasional strong mark is not going to be enough. I was disappointed that we didn't go after a good midfielder at the time.

Richo got out-coached yesterday. His structures failed and the team was not switched on for three quarters, coupled with poor skills..it all was a big mess.

We need more run across the board and probably need the skills of Sinclair and the bodywork of Acres in packs for starters.

I can tell you the script for next week.. The WCE mids will all get 30+ possessions and it will game over for s.

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Re: For what it's worth

Post: # 1655407Post Junior »

BigMart wrote:I suppose if you look hard enough you can see or find what you need to excuse that

I'll just go with what's obvious

We were smashed by a better team
Should be no excuses for that performance but what were the reasons why it happened? Think Tony touched on a couple of reasons as to why.

For me we had no structure either defensively or in particular going forward, looked like a rabble with defensive structures. Melbourne were harder at the ball prepared to run harder and set up extremely well.

I am a Richo fan but thought he and the coaches had their pants pulled down, and if we can not cope with no third man up rule then what have we been doing for six months?

I have real concerns on a couple of players that had break out years last year in Ross and Membrey looked sluggish in JLT and again last night.

Looking at last night it looked like Ross,Membrey, Armitage were sore, they were running on the spot.


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