16 possessions

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BigMart
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16 possessions

Post: # 1655292Post BigMart »

Dunstan - His average output
Armo
Ross - wtf was he doing on the wing getting flogged by a racehorse

As midfielders, those numbers are not fkn good enough... just don't spread hard or fast enough

All Heavy footed runners who can't keep up on the outside... guarantee you this, their opponents are not getting 16

And again WTF
Was Ross doing on the Wing after a breakout season inside
He's not quick enough and does not run in straight lines anyway.

Woeful coaching, s*** midfield run


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655296Post The OtherThommo »

BigMart wrote:Dunstan - His average output
Armo
Ross - wtf was he doing on the wing getting flogged by a racehorse

As midfielders, those numbers are not fkn good enough... just don't spread hard or fast enough

All Heavy footed runners who can't keep up on the outside... guarantee you this, their opponents are not getting 16

And again WTF
Was Ross doing on the Wing after a breakout season inside
He's not quick enough and does not run in straight lines anyway.

Woeful coaching, s*** midfield run
Ross spent periods early with Viney, and then Jones. Got trounced, bar the 2nd half of the opening 1/4, when we dominated.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655298Post Wayne42 »

Why do we recruit these spuds ? :roll: :roll:


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655301Post The_President »

BigMart wrote:Dunstan - His average output
Armo
Ross - wtf was he doing on the wing getting flogged by a racehorse

As midfielders, those numbers are not fkn good enough... just don't spread hard or fast enough

All Heavy footed runners who can't keep up on the outside... guarantee you this, their opponents are not getting 16

And again WTF
Was Ross doing on the Wing after a breakout season inside
He's not quick enough and does not run in straight lines anyway.

Woeful coaching, s*** midfield run
It's alright though, because they really tried hard and they live by the values of Richo. Unlike Acres


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655302Post Johnny Member »

BigMart wrote:Dunstan - His average output
Armo
Ross - wtf was he doing on the wing getting flogged by a racehorse

As midfielders, those numbers are not fkn good enough... just don't spread hard or fast enough

All Heavy footed runners who can't keep up on the outside... guarantee you this, their opponents are not getting 16

And again WTF
Was Ross doing on the Wing after a breakout season inside
He's not quick enough and does not run in straight lines anyway.

Woeful coaching, s*** midfield run

Coaches can't turn plodders into good players mid-game.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655305Post The_President »

Why are players like
- Dunstan
- Armo
- Ross

Immune from questioning?

All three play a very, very, very similar game. All struggle on the spread and leave us found wanting in any game that's played at a fast pace.

Dunstan had a good first year but has struggled since. Armo, in all honesty has played one cracking season for his entire career. Ross similar to Armo.

But they are CONSTANTLY selected.

I don't want to be that guy on the forum harping on about one player. But I just don't get it. Acres seems to be the one player we have on our list that gives us everything that we're missing. But he is constantly sent to the VFL to collect 30+ a game until he gets picked, and when he gets picked he's often played in the forward line.

I just don't get it.

Now we've adde Steele as well (one of the best tonight) but plays VERY similarly to Ross, Dunstan and Armo.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655312Post Wayne42 »

The_President wrote:Why are players like
- Dunstan
- Armo
- Ross

Immune from questioning?

All three play a very, very, very similar game. All struggle on the spread and leave us found wanting in any game that's played at a fast pace.

Dunstan had a good first year but has struggled since. Armo, in all honesty has played one cracking season for his entire career. Ross similar to Armo.

But they are CONSTANTLY selected.

I don't want to be that guy on the forum harping on about one player. But I just don't get it. Acres seems to be the one player we have on our list that gives us everything that we're missing. But he is constantly sent to the VFL to collect 30+ a game until he gets picked, and when he gets picked he's often played in the forward line.

I just don't get it.

Now we've adde Steele as well (one of the best tonight) but plays VERY similarly to Ross, Dunstan and Armo.
Acres has flaws, which Richo is trying to fix, not sure if poor disposal can ever be fixed. ?


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655317Post BigMart »

His disposal wouldn't be much worse than half the team... seriously... the disposal, for guys who train it as professionals... is rubbish


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655319Post Winmar »

The output from those guys just wasn't good enough, and was a large part of the reason for the we got flogged in the middle.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655323Post Jacks Back »

BigMart wrote:His disposal wouldn't be much worse than half the team... seriously... the disposal, for guys who train it as professionals... is rubbish
What rubbish numbers and disposal efficiently from a number of players who should be better than that.

Ross 16 disposals @ 62.5% disposal efficiency
Dunstan 16 @ 75%
Armitage 16 @ 56.3%
Lonie 14 @ 57.1%
Webster 14 @ 57.1%
Weller 13 @ 46.2%
Wright 8 @ 50%


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655327Post desertsaint »

Jacks Back wrote:
BigMart wrote:His disposal wouldn't be much worse than half the team... seriously... the disposal, for guys who train it as professionals... is rubbish
What rubbish numbers and disposal efficiently from a number of players who should be better than that.

Ross 16 disposals @ 62.5% disposal efficiency
Dunstan 16 @ 75%
Armitage 16 @ 56.3%
Lonie 14 @ 57.1%
Webster 14 @ 57.1%
Weller 13 @ 46.2%
Wright 8 @ 50%
woeful figures. thought armo and geary were particularly poor - coughed up a lot of easy balls.
dunstan the least poor of a poor bunch.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655331Post Vazelos »

You guys are spot on with your observations.

Dunstan & Armitage & to a lesser extent Ross are too similar, no pace and average spread.

I commented on Dunstan last year & I was attacked by the 'guru' Jaxon and a few of his sycophants, when the game is quick he look like a plodder.

He had a few friends tonight.

I am a huge wrap for Acres and disappointed he wasnt in, not that I saw enough of Long yet but I am guessing he will be in before too long ( pardon the pun).

Gresham is an outright gem and I cant blame the backline we were smashed in the middle.

We have a lot of depth but we are still a work in progress to know our best balanced 22.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655345Post Trev from the Bush »

Light the torches and grab the pitch forks............................


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655367Post saintsRrising »

Trev from the Bush wrote:Light the torches and grab the pitch forks............................
Well they did start wrecking Moorabbin this week. Quite prophetic too as it turned out and particularly as in the footage of that, that Roo was the only player doing the work there as well!


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655368Post SuperDuper »

Wayne42 wrote:
The_President wrote:Why are players like
- Dunstan
- Armo
- Ross

Immune from questioning?

All three play a very, very, very similar game. All struggle on the spread and leave us found wanting in any game that's played at a fast pace.

Dunstan had a good first year but has struggled since. Armo, in all honesty has played one cracking season for his entire career. Ross similar to Armo.

But they are CONSTANTLY selected.

I don't want to be that guy on the forum harping on about one player. But I just don't get it. Acres seems to be the one player we have on our list that gives us everything that we're missing. But he is constantly sent to the VFL to collect 30+ a game until he gets picked, and when he gets picked he's often played in the forward line.

I just don't get it.

Now we've adde Steele as well (one of the best tonight) but plays VERY similarly to Ross, Dunstan and Armo.
Acres has flaws, which Richo is trying to fix, not sure if poor disposal can ever be fixed. ?
well we could not get the ball at all so it did not matter if Richo selected based on kicking ability
At least Acres can get the ball.. ludicrous decision to leave him out of the team


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655389Post Johnny Member »

I think we're overrating Acres a bit.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655392Post BigMart »

Over reacting

I'm just stating the numbers

Which are just not acceptable from AFL mids

Compare the numbers to Oliver, Jones, Viney, Hunt etc

There is the reason we got pumped


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655469Post Con Gorozidis »

Armo was terrific in 2015 but s*** all last year and he still looked s*** yesterday.
Ross was terrific last year so he has credits in the bank imo.
Dunstan is just over rated internally by the club. He really isnt very good. He is a good country football player and he wont get any better. Man child who peaked at 17. Not AFL equipped.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655478Post Bluthy »

My problem with Dunstan now is its not just that he's slow - there are plenty of slow inside midfielders who use their size and strength to advantage. But the issue for me is:

1) Is he really that good inside - he doesn't have a lot of clearances for a guy that starts in the centre square a lot. He seems to be good at blocking and tackling and 1%ers but is that enough for a genuine onballer who can't play any other position
2) I don't know if he has the quick, accurate hands you need in there. He seems a bit slow making decisions and spotting openings. Mitchell is slow as hell but he handballs with such quickness and playing making vision.

Ross disappointed me again yesterday. That is the sort of game he has to step up when its going against us. He's great as a linkup player when we are on top. But its his time to go to another level and become "the man" for us in the middle. IF not, you have to question what his ceiling is and if he is just going to stall at being a link up player which I don't think locks him in anymore. We have others who could have a higher ceiling we should maybe start taking chances on. Ross almost seems to meek to really be a dominating player.

Armo - its hard to know where he's at after one game. I worry about his injuries he's been battling for years. He could be coming down the other side of the mountain. Jones and Sewell controlled the centre where we badly needed our experienced big inside bull to take that off them but he couldn't yesterday.

I'm crossing my fingers STeele can be that marque onballer for us that I think we need with Armo making having peaked and Steven electrifying when on but not the inside, dominating beast and Ross looking a bit too meek to be the man for us.

I would try Billings as a genuine onballer. We need his vision, cleverness, play making and high footy iq around the ball as much as possible now. It might be going backwards to go forwards as he struggles to win ball with his current size. But as he gets stronger, his time spend developing as an onballer will be incredibly valuable. Likewise Acres who can read ruck taps really well- could have used that yesterday.

Ross, Armo, Dunny are all experienced enough to not be making excuses about them. If you can't control the middle you probably aren't going to win. If they can't bounce back next week I think the club is going to have to make some hard decisions about playing them all. But they deserve a chance to see if they can redeem themselves next week.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655485Post Con Gorozidis »

People say Dunstan is good at clearance but is he really?
He is basically at every single ball-up - so he is bound to fluke a few just on weight of numbers.
Because he is slow he always arrives at each contest 5 meters behind and just in time for the ball-up.
So hsi 'clearance' numbers are grossly over stated. He probably gets 5 clearances for every 50 ballups.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655500Post saint-stu »

David Armitage - Pick 9
Luke Dunstan - Pick 18
Blake Acres - Pick 19
Jack Steele - Pick 24
Seb Ross - Pick 25
Jack Newnes - Pick 37
Jack Steven - Pick 42

With the exception of Armo, it's a midfield of bargain picks. And Armo's back is stuffed. It extends to the rest of the team too with Jarryn Geary, Jimmy Webster, Jack Lonie, Dylan Roberton, Sam Gilbert, Tim Membrey etc.

We badly need some elite top 10 pick midfielders. We have one in Billings (and Jack Steven was a bargain) but we probably need 3 more.

Melbourne have
Christian Petracca - Pick 2 (almost pick 1)
Angus Brayshaw - Pick 3
Clayton Oliver - Pick 4
Jordan Lewis - Pick 7
Nathan Jones - Pick 12


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655506Post Myron Gaines »

saint-stu wrote:David Armitage - Pick 9
Luke Dunstan - Pick 18
Blake Acres - Pick 19
Jack Steele - Pick 24
Seb Ross - Pick 25
Jack Newnes - Pick 37
Jack Steven - Pick 42

With the exception of Armo, it's a midfield of bargain picks. And Armo's back is stuffed. It extends to the rest of the team too with Jarryn Geary, Jimmy Webster, Jack Lonie, Dylan Roberton, Sam Gilbert, Tim Membrey etc.

We badly need some elite top 10 pick midfielders. We have one in Billings (and Jack Steven was a bargain) but we probably need 3 more.

Melbourne have
Christian Petracca - Pick 2 (almost pick 1)
Angus Brayshaw - Pick 3
Clayton Oliver - Pick 4
Jordan Lewis - Pick 7
Nathan Jones - Pick 12
You may as well put Steele down as a pick 15 because that's where he was bid on. Under the old rules you take the bidded player at your next selection. Anyway, just puts a bit of context around where he was rated. Pick 24 isn't an accurate reflection.

That draft we got Newnes & Ross was littered with GWS pre selections (Cameron, Treloar, Shiel just to name a few). Ross at 25 was more a 35, Newnes at 37 more a 47.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655530Post CQ SAINT »

saint-stu wrote:David Armitage - Pick 9
Luke Dunstan - Pick 18
Blake Acres - Pick 19
Jack Steele - Pick 24
Seb Ross - Pick 25
Jack Newnes - Pick 37
Jack Steven - Pick 42

With the exception of Armo, it's a midfield of bargain picks. And Armo's back is stuffed. It extends to the rest of the team too with Jarryn Geary, Jimmy Webster, Jack Lonie, Dylan Roberton, Sam Gilbert, Tim Membrey etc.

We badly need some elite top 10 pick midfielders. We have one in Billings (and Jack Steven was a bargain) but we probably need 3 more.

Melbourne have
Christian Petracca - Pick 2 (almost pick 1)
Angus Brayshaw - Pick 3
Clayton Oliver - Pick 4
Jordan Lewis - Pick 7
Nathan Jones - Pick 12
I cant argue with this. Applying pressure is great but without the skill to capitalise on the scoreboard it wears thin. The second and third quarters proved this.


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655612Post BigMart »

Pressure works when everyone's fresh

Sting goes out of it, the better players take over


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Re: 16 possessions

Post: # 1655784Post Johnny Member »

BigMart wrote:Pressure works when everyone's fresh

Sting goes out of it, the better players take over
Exactly.


If you don't match the opposition's pressure, you'll get beaten.

A weaker team can beat a better team if they out pressure them. Which is what we've done on occasions.


But.....


If a weaker team comes up against a better team - and the better also brings their A-Grade pressure game, guess who wins?


And that's the crux of it for mine.


We're not very good. We have a glaring lack of top shelf players. So when we come up against a good team that also brings a high pressure and intensity game to the table, we get beaten. I think our high pressure game has masked the problems that we have with our list.


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