Sandy vs Willliamstown

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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Jacks Back » Sat 11 Mar 2017 10:50pm

tony74 wrote:
To the top wrote:What the hell is Acres doing playing for the VFL outfit?


Cos you've got to run both ways. And run hard both ways. He'll get there. Seb did.

I don't know who junior is or you, for that matter, but junior said he "worked hard both ways". So lesson learnt?

From Richo I mean!
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby st.byron » Sat 11 Mar 2017 11:05pm

Junior wrote:Ventured down to watch the game, my observations were as follows.


Acres was everywhere is a class above this level, held onto the ball a few times due to no options further afield. kicking a bit hit and miss when in heavy traffic . But he is just a beast in the contest and at clearances , worked hard both ways.

Longer better than he was at Sandy last year, did not get a heap of the ball, took a nice mark inside fifty and was physical around the contest and rucked okay.

Long was impressive with his tackling he seriously hits them hard. Really hunts the player in his area. Think he needs to develop some endurance, looked stuffed in the last and did not work hard enough off the ball. Was goal side in the last quarter as we ran the ball down the wing he jogged inside fifty if he had of worked harder I think we would have strolled into an open goal but his opponent caught up with him and we ended up kicking to a contest with Minchington. Has real pace and ran a few down from behind so think it is an endurance issue rather than a willing to work issue.

Dempster just does the job, typical Dempster game tacklers hard spoiled took some marks. Dropped a mark he would usually take and had his knee heavily taped but I have no idea why he was ya Sandy and not playing tomorrow.

Battle played his best when on the move as a third forward type, was beaten when one on one. He is a beautiful field kick and kicked a nice goal. Has got some impressive tools with his skills and endurance.

Phillips was impressive moves well and looks to use the ball well, clearly has outstanding endurance and played on a wing. Drifted out a bit after quarter time . Was really impressed with his composur.

White carried on from what I saw at Sandy last year, strong in the air , tough and a lovely kick. He is an impressive player but in a long line of back flankers.

Sinclair is another who is a class above this level, got plenty of the ball won clearances used the ball well and is so composed with the footy in his hands. Played on the ball and that is what i see him as , he is not a small forward.

Mckenzie for me was up and down, got a bit of the ball and is courageous but tried to do too much a few times. Would like to see him lower his eyes a bit more kicking long is not always the best option. He is another who I believe is above this level.

Connellan, the boy is a jet seriously quick. Intercepted a ball on the edge of the centre square due to his pace ran round on to his left and had a shot from fifty but missed would have been a great goal. Obviously still still learning the reading of the play was impressed by him. Looks an okay kick, bar one turn over and dropped a few marks.

Joyce unfortunately got injured in the last, looks like a lower leg or ankle. Was impressed by him, super courageous in the air, needs to learn when to try and mark and when to punch but was super impressive.

I would say both the irish lads are ahead of where Tommy Walsh was at the same stage,

Minchington played on ball and was okay without dominating he is another who is above this level. Did not win enough the ball but used it well when he had it.

Pierce was for me the best ruckman on the ground, played forward and rucked as well. He has filled out well, he presented well took a few grabs and is quite physical now. A better bet as a ruck forward than either Holmes or Longer.

Marshall kicked a couple, nice kick and moves well, he could definitely okay as a forward who chops out in the ruck. Competes well at ground level, does not appear a huge pack mark but moves well so can get on the end of it.

Holmes played the best all round game I have seen from him, kicked a goal and was better around the ground, kicking has improved and he was very competitive at ground level if the pass did not hit him. Admire his efforts but I would have him behind all of the other ruckman as well as Marshall.

Miller looked to have clean skills and is a nice size for a kid.

Overall a bit to like and a few things to work on, but definitely some talent to work with.

As for the result Willaimstown are a good side and have topped up with a few of the better Frankston players, they team together very well.


Really appreciate the report Junior. Good stuff. Thanks.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby desertsaint » Sat 11 Mar 2017 11:29pm

good report junior. was this just a practice game? wondering how Long played when he was suspended for two games after last years vfl final?
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Long Term Injury » Sat 11 Mar 2017 11:31pm

Fantastic stuff junior. Keep it up
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby BigMart » Sat 11 Mar 2017 11:48pm

Was there

Acres runs around in the VFL like a 16yo playing U14s. But he's untidy, unpredictable and can be messy. His defensive side is probably not the best either.

The mids (Acres, Sincs, Minch, Phillips, Trew) were criticised for not spreading defensively and then not working back to protect the corridor to fill space, the were getting caught in between and getting out worked.

White was given a lesson by Dunnell early, but started to do ok... Dunnell then went to the Wing and White started to get footy.

DMac worked into it and by the last was winning a lot of footy across HB

Dempster was rock solid

Sinclair cruises around (like a VFL Sam Mitchell) but doesn't attract the ball as much. He's clever and too skilled for VFL but his intensity is average and he was sooking a bit. Mich is just a good VFL rover.

There are way too many Ruckman - at one stage three of the for linked up, it was not exactly a Bulldogs style play.

Battle is OK, he tired and is slow. But has a knack for getting to spots and scoring.

Marshall will be a gun. He was easily the best tall.

Longer - about 5 touches in a vfl game. Throws his body around, can't find it. Lewis moves ok when in motion, but agility and off the mark is a dinosaur. Holmes athletic and was ok.

Long is psycho on his attack at the ball/man. Needs fitness and composure.

Conellan - yes, has some serious tools

Miller, Joyce - just projects

Phillips worked into it really nicely and goes alright for a kid

Sandy had a way better team than Williamstown but they had superior cohesion, and better GP on the big ground. And
How the hell is Ben Cavarra not playing AFL?! He is better than 15 on our list and would be in some AFL teams best 12 imo

On getting excited by Acres in the VFL. Sam Dunnell looks better than Jack Gunston in the VFL.

Overall some very good signs, some not so good signs.

My real positives
Marshall, Long, Phillips
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby BigMart » Sat 11 Mar 2017 11:50pm

Freeman, Rice, NOK, JBT and obviously Goddard did not play.

Surprised Shinner was in the VFL? He was a class above.

Joyce, DMac, White all got injured

Fisher, Curren, Verma, Weikhardt did not play
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby saintbrat » Sun 12 Mar 2017 6:44am

BigMart wrote:Freeman, Rice, NOK, JBT and obviously Goddard did not play.

Surprised Shinner was in the VFL? He was a class above.

Joyce, DMac, White all got injured

Fisher, Curren, Verma, Weikhardt did not play


Rice broken finger as noted in a sling at season launch
JBT rehab from ankle surgery
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby saintspremiers » Sun 12 Mar 2017 7:49am

bigcarl wrote:
tony74 wrote:
To the top wrote:What the hell is Acres doing playing for the VFL outfit?


Cos you've got to run both ways. And run hard both ways. He'll get there. Seb did.


Last week it was his disposal


You know what?

Acres is still only 21. He's already built like beast and has amazing skills and ability.

If this "tough love" period that Richo has enforced works and Acres "toes the line" we could have an absolute 200 plus game midfield superstar in the making. A lot of 21 year old blokes have the brain of someone much younger. Dunno about Acres, just making a point.

Short term pain for immense long term gain.

Some players are worth this sort of effort and others aren't
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby BigMart » Sun 12 Mar 2017 9:03am

To get this straight.

It sounds like people think Acres is somehow being disciplined and should be in the 22 because he's a gun.

Firstly
He's not been disciplined or given tough love. He's had an awesome pre season, for a very big mid, he finished 4-8 in all pre season running
He's a hard worker and is building his game

Secondly
The reason he is not in the seniors, is simple. He has gaps in his footy. Defensively and with the ball he has some tidy up.


He is no different to Rice, DMac, Sinclair, Lonie in that they are all developing
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby bigcarl » Sun 12 Mar 2017 10:18am

saintspremiers wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
tony74 wrote:
To the top wrote:What the hell is Acres doing playing for the VFL outfit?


Cos you've got to run both ways. And run hard both ways. He'll get there. Seb did.


Last week it was his disposal


You know what?

Acres is still only 21. He's already built like beast and has amazing skills and ability.

If this "tough love" period that Richo has enforced works and Acres "toes the line" we could have an absolute 200 plus game midfield superstar in the making. A lot of 21 year old blokes have the brain of someone much younger. Dunno about Acres, just making a point.

Short term pain for immense long term gain.

Some players are worth this sort of effort and others aren't


I agree with what you are saying. He's not the finished product, yet.

All the same, the guys picked ahead of him had better make sure they earn their keep. Presumably they will be judged by the same high standards.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Long Term Injury » Sun 12 Mar 2017 10:23am

BigMart wrote:To get this straight.

It sounds like people think Acres is somehow being disciplined and should be in the 22 because he's a gun.

Firstly
He's not been disciplined or given tough love. He's had an awesome pre season, for a very big mid, he finished 4-8 in all pre season running
He's a hard worker and is building his game

Secondly
The reason he is not in the seniors, is simple. He has gaps in his footy. Defensively and with the ball he has some tidy up.


He is no different to Rice, DMac, Sinclair, Lonie in that they are all developing


Great work big fella, really appreciate the analysis
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby saintsRrising » Sun 12 Mar 2017 10:44am

bigcarl wrote:
All the same, the guys picked ahead of him had better make sure they earn their keep. Presumably they will be judged by the same high standards.


Why would they not be?

Plus look at who is currently ahead of Acres for playing mid or hf

Steven
Ross
Armitage
Dunstan
Newnes
Gresham
Billings
Steele
Stevens

Plus Joey who is injured.

The exciting thing about 2017 is that in our best 22 that there is only room for high standards now. If you want to be in the first 22 you have to playing well.

If you add Acres to the players above that is 11 and most likely on 10, or maybe even 9 will be in any particular 22. DMak is a bit out of form at present and so probably 10 will make it with Wright as the small forward at least at seasons start. Lonie to miss out.

Players like Gilbert or Robbo can be used to rotate through the midfield too, and if they are that only increases the competition for the midfield places.

Competition is now fierce, and that is a good thing.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby bigcarl » Sun 12 Mar 2017 10:50am

I agree, competition for spots is great. Let's hope Koby Stevens, Steele and the rest really turn it on tonight and genuinely earn a spot for Round 1. If they don't I can suggest a capable replacement.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby saintsRrising » Sun 12 Mar 2017 10:56am

BigMart wrote:

My real positives
Marshall, Long, Phillips


Thanks for the report. Given the scoreboard there had to be reasons for the large loss.

I like both Sinclair and Acres as potential players. They both at times to my eye look sublime. There is a lot of talent there. But as you say both do not work hard enough at times at all aspects of their games.

With Acres when he has the ball he can at times look a bit Dal like in that he just seems to have more time than other players. But at other times you forget he is on the field as he is just not working hard enough. His defensive game, like Sinclair's is just not good enough at present.

And in AFL today teams get ripped apart when players do not work hard enough.


Marshal excites as he is not just a ruck. He could be ideal foil for Hickey who can also play down back or up forward.

Long is an excitement machine who knows how to attack the ball and opponent. But reading up on his past career recently he is very much a hothead who gets reported frequently. Being more disciplined would seem to be his main challenge.

Phillips I have only seen the once and so I make no comment on him.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Bluthy » Sun 12 Mar 2017 11:10am

BigMart wrote:Freeman, Rice, NOK, JBT and obviously Goddard did not play.

Surprised Shinner was in the VFL? He was a class above.

Joyce, DMac, White all got injured

Fisher, Curren, Verma, Weikhardt did not play


Thanks for the write up BM. My take on Dempster is its an experiment to see how we go without him, having the two big units. With Gilbo, Robbo and even Roo dropping back like he did a bit in the preseason game, that could provide a lot of defensive cover - does Demps then become too much? I'm not a believer in the "Dempster can get off the leash" now theroy. His value has always been using his surprising core strength (not an inch of fat on the bastard) to be able to shut down guys his size and bigger. But he's not quick nor a good kick to set up play. Takes some nice intercept marks but often in a deep sweeper type role. We have to look at the balance of attack and defence there. If we go well against Sydney defensively maybe they are happy leaving him out for the Melbourne game without a lot of power forwards besides Hogan. IF we struggle, Richo may still want his trusty body and play reading as extra cover.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Bluthy » Sun 12 Mar 2017 11:11am

saintbrat wrote:
BigMart wrote:Freeman, Rice, NOK, JBT and obviously Goddard did not play.

Surprised Shinner was in the VFL? He was a class above.

Joyce, DMac, White all got injured

Fisher, Curren, Verma, Weikhardt did not play


Rice broken finger as noted in a sling at season launch
JBT rehab from ankle surgery


Jesus Ricey can't take a trick after the glandular fever last year. Hope it doesn't take too long to get back to it. I've liked what I've seen of him.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Bluthy » Sun 12 Mar 2017 11:39am

saintspremiers wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
tony74 wrote:
To the top wrote:What the hell is Acres doing playing for the VFL outfit?


Cos you've got to run both ways. And run hard both ways. He'll get there. Seb did.


Last week it was his disposal


You know what?

Acres is still only 21. He's already built like beast and has amazing skills and ability.

If this "tough love" period that Richo has enforced works and Acres "toes the line" we could have an absolute 200 plus game midfield superstar in the making. A lot of 21 year old blokes have the brain of someone much younger. Dunno about Acres, just making a point.

Short term pain for immense long term gain.

Some players are worth this sort of effort and others aren't


What about Dunstan's lack of outside run yet he's been played to death. I think you can find excuses if you want a player out - my gut says Richo wants Stevens in the team and Acres is making room. I think this is about fitness and focus for Acres.

Fitness
Richo loves the "training the house down" players. Look at how Billings keeps babbling at every presser he does about "wanting to dominate every training session" with a panicked look in his eye almost like a mantra. White a 2nd year player not in top nick coming back - not a single game so far.

Richo wants a team of super-fit bods to give him his pressure and fast moving game. But how did the super-fit approach work for Port in the long run? I think they turned some of their very skillful and creative players into running bots and killed their spark. Plus it hid a poor, dumb system underneath that just involved running up and back constantly which is exhausting. Hawks use a clever zoning system where they can drop off a player running and let another player go for them further up the ground in another zone. It lets them keep energy in the bank for when they get momentum and then they unleash and get scoreboard result. That my worry, that Richo doesn't have a clever system underneath and will rely too much on exhausting running where players don't have a lot left to execute pinpoint skills. There should be a balance point there.

Focus
Acres is one of those guys who seems to have constant brain fades, disappears from games or just goes off into his own world. Dunny his best mate said he was weird. He does need to learn to impose himself when he's struggling to get into it - blocks, tackles, 1%ers etc. So if Richo can get that out of him, then it may pay off in the long run. But you've also got to respect that some creative players brains just work different than other players and they will give you something others can't.

There could be something more going on with Acres we don't know about. He apparently hasn't followed team rules before. But I think he's just not the super hard-working type that Richo wants at the moment. But you need the talent too. We seem to be going down a hard-working but less talented road than I thought we were going.

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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Spinner » Sun 12 Mar 2017 11:58am

Junior wrote:Ventured down to watch the game, my observations were as follows.


Acres was everywhere is a class above this level, held onto the ball a few times due to no options further afield. kicking a bit hit and miss when in heavy traffic . But he is just a beast in the contest and at clearances , worked hard both ways.

Longer better than he was at Sandy last year, did not get a heap of the ball, took a nice mark inside fifty and was physical around the contest and rucked okay.

Long was impressive with his tackling he seriously hits them hard. Really hunts the player in his area. Think he needs to develop some endurance, looked stuffed in the last and did not work hard enough off the ball. Was goal side in the last quarter as we ran the ball down the wing he jogged inside fifty if he had of worked harder I think we would have strolled into an open goal but his opponent caught up with him and we ended up kicking to a contest with Minchington. Has real pace and ran a few down from behind so think it is an endurance issue rather than a willing to work issue.

Dempster just does the job, typical Dempster game tacklers hard spoiled took some marks. Dropped a mark he would usually take and had his knee heavily taped but I have no idea why he was ya Sandy and not playing tomorrow.

Battle played his best when on the move as a third forward type, was beaten when one on one. He is a beautiful field kick and kicked a nice goal. Has got some impressive tools with his skills and endurance.

Phillips was impressive moves well and looks to use the ball well, clearly has outstanding endurance and played on a wing. Drifted out a bit after quarter time . Was really impressed with his composur.

White carried on from what I saw at Sandy last year, strong in the air , tough and a lovely kick. He is an impressive player but in a long line of back flankers.

Sinclair is another who is a class above this level, got plenty of the ball won clearances used the ball well and is so composed with the footy in his hands. Played on the ball and that is what i see him as , he is not a small forward.

Mckenzie for me was up and down, got a bit of the ball and is courageous but tried to do too much a few times. Would like to see him lower his eyes a bit more kicking long is not always the best option. He is another who I believe is above this level.

Connellan, the boy is a jet seriously quick. Intercepted a ball on the edge of the centre square due to his pace ran round on to his left and had a shot from fifty but missed would have been a great goal. Obviously still still learning the reading of the play was impressed by him. Looks an okay kick, bar one turn over and dropped a few marks.

Joyce unfortunately got injured in the last, looks like a lower leg or ankle. Was impressed by him, super courageous in the air, needs to learn when to try and mark and when to punch but was super impressive.

I would say both the irish lads are ahead of where Tommy Walsh was at the same stage,

Minchington played on ball and was okay without dominating he is another who is above this level. Did not win enough the ball but used it well when he had it.

Pierce was for me the best ruckman on the ground, played forward and rucked as well. He has filled out well, he presented well took a few grabs and is quite physical now. A better bet as a ruck forward than either Holmes or Longer.

Marshall kicked a couple, nice kick and moves well, he could definitely okay as a forward who chops out in the ruck. Competes well at ground level, does not appear a huge pack mark but moves well so can get on the end of it.

Holmes played the best all round game I have seen from him, kicked a goal and was better around the ground, kicking has improved and he was very competitive at ground level if the pass did not hit him. Admire his efforts but I would have him behind all of the other ruckman as well as Marshall.

Miller looked to have clean skills and is a nice size for a kid.

Overall a bit to like and a few things to work on, but definitely some talent to work with.

As for the result Willaimstown are a good side and have topped up with a few of the better Frankston players, they team together very well.



Superb write up!!!
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Spinner » Sun 12 Mar 2017 11:59am

BigMart wrote:Was there

Acres runs around in the VFL like a 16yo playing U14s. But he's untidy, unpredictable and can be messy. His defensive side is probably not the best either.

The mids (Acres, Sincs, Minch, Phillips, Trew) were criticised for not spreading defensively and then not working back to protect the corridor to fill space, the were getting caught in between and getting out worked.

White was given a lesson by Dunnell early, but started to do ok... Dunnell then went to the Wing and White started to get footy.

DMac worked into it and by the last was winning a lot of footy across HB

Dempster was rock solid

Sinclair cruises around (like a VFL Sam Mitchell) but doesn't attract the ball as much. He's clever and too skilled for VFL but his intensity is average and he was sooking a bit. Mich is just a good VFL rover.

There are way too many Ruckman - at one stage three of the for linked up, it was not exactly a Bulldogs style play.

Battle is OK, he tired and is slow. But has a knack for getting to spots and scoring.

Marshall will be a gun. He was easily the best tall.

Longer - about 5 touches in a vfl game. Throws his body around, can't find it. Lewis moves ok when in motion, but agility and off the mark is a dinosaur. Holmes athletic and was ok.

Long is psycho on his attack at the ball/man. Needs fitness and composure.

Conellan - yes, has some serious tools

Miller, Joyce - just projects

Phillips worked into it really nicely and goes alright for a kid

Sandy had a way better team than Williamstown but they had superior cohesion, and better GP on the big ground. And
How the hell is Ben Cavarra not playing AFL?! He is better than 15 on our list and would be in some AFL teams best 12 imo

On getting excited by Acres in the VFL. Sam Dunnell looks better than Jack Gunston in the VFL.

Overall some very good signs, some not so good signs.

My real positives
Marshall, Long, Phillips



Yours too BM - good write up.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby Freebird » Sun 12 Mar 2017 1:06pm

BigMart wrote:To get this straight.

It sounds like people think Acres is somehow being disciplined and should be in the 22 because he's a gun.

Firstly
He's not been disciplined or given tough love. He's had an awesome pre season, for a very big mid, he finished 4-8 in all pre season running
He's a hard worker and is building his game

Secondly
The reason he is not in the seniors, is simple. He has gaps in his footy. Defensively and with the ball he has some tidy up.


He is no different to Rice, DMac, Sinclair, Lonie in that they are all developing


With Acres the many areas he does not have flaws are way ahead of the others mentioned. So why put him in the same bucket?
Our good friend Hirdy could not kick with his left foot so maybe they should have played him in the twos until he improved this problem.

I do understand though what they're doing in trying to fast track these areas
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby spert » Sun 12 Mar 2017 2:20pm

I presume Acres will line up for Round 1. I don't think he has any more flaws in his game than some of our more experienced regular players, so it will need to be on form after today's JLT game
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby WellardSaint » Sun 12 Mar 2017 3:39pm

spert wrote:I presume Acres will line up for Round 1. I don't think he has any more flaws in his game than some of our more experienced regular players, so it will need to be on form after today's JLT game

Jaxon is adamant Acres is a lock for the Dees game. Named on the bench in his side.
Perhaps the coaches want to remind him of some things in a practice game, but in a real game, he is far too valuable to be left out.
Just my opinion.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby sunsaint » Sun 12 Mar 2017 3:46pm

All coaches have their perceived favourites, we just get to try and figure why
You could argue that all The true ball magnets have a flaw in their defensive side of the game - when you're​ racking up 35+ possessions you really only have a see ba!L get ball mentality
Yep I know the game has changed, but we could all be scratching our heads wondering why Nathan Burke was getting a game over Robert Harvey if Richo had those two today

PS thanks guys for the great reports - being lazy but what was the big margin?

Oh and PPS unless someone knows that Acres had a poor off season then perhaps it shouldn't be mentioned as it becomes a fake truth...
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby saintsRrising » Sun 12 Mar 2017 4:26pm

sunsaint wrote:PS- being lazy but what was the big margin?

...


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Williamstown 10.11.71
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Last edited by saintsRrising on Sun 12 Mar 2017 4:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sandy vs Willliamstown

Postby sunsaint » Sun 12 Mar 2017 4:29pm

Not that bad - a goal a quarter...
PS being lazy again is that Cambodia?
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