Hickey or Longer?

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Hickey or Longer?

Postby bigcarl » Sun 05 Mar 2017 9:16am

We're in the fortunate position, barring injury, of having two capable first rucks.

It a shame one of them won't be in our best 22 week in, week out. Structure won't allow it if we're going to play Bruce, McCartin and Membrey forward.

It's a tough gig being a specialist.

So which one?

Personally I favour Hickey. I thought he had a breakout season in 2016. Seldom beaten and smashed the All Australian Gawn a couple of times. Does plenty around the ground - almost gives you an extra midfielder - as well as winning lots of hit outs. Very awkward customer.

Which isn't to disparage Longer, who has his own attributes. Tough, physical and a strong body who will always give a contest.

Thoughts?
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby lennyhaze » Sun 05 Mar 2017 9:22am

Its Hickeys spot to lose and he hasn't lost it yet.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 05 Mar 2017 9:27am

Hickey by a country mile until proven otherwise.

Hickey was a top 5 Ruckman in the entire comp last year.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby SaintPav » Sun 05 Mar 2017 9:37am

Hickey but Longer is a great backup.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Bluthy » Sun 05 Mar 2017 9:50am

From match thread

tony74 wrote:
Billy is no. 1


Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby bigcarl » Sun 05 Mar 2017 10:17am

No. 1?

So Hickey was just filling in for Longer last season? LOL
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby To the top » Sun 05 Mar 2017 10:25am

Hickey, easily.

Playing Port Adelaide last week carried more value than playing Carlton yesterday - and by a long, long way.

Next week will be the pre-season "tester" where player performances will be rated.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby #gosaintas » Sun 05 Mar 2017 10:31am

Yep, Hickey easily but somehow we need to give Longer some game time for trade reasons
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Sobraz » Sun 05 Mar 2017 10:40am

If Longer is selected round 1, put your money on Gawn to get the 3 votes and Melbourne to shorten greatly.

Gawn is absolutely pivotal to Melbournes fortunes, and Hickey beat him/broke even twice last year.
He is a huge threat this year and borderline best/most influential player in the comp.

Longer will be embarrassed by him.
For all his bash and crash yesterday, Longer took 1 mark and had 5 possessions. Against a VFL ruckman at best.

Gawn has taken 9 contested marks in a single game. High possession winning, marking, mobile ruck. It'll be a bloodbath unless we select Hickey.


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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby wally » Sun 05 Mar 2017 11:01am

Hickey was no.1 last year, Longer no.1 the year before.

I noticed Sandilands had a good game for Freo, maybe the no 3rd man up rule will make ruck contest advantage more important.

Could we play the 2 at once, given Bruce (I think) tires too much doing ruck duties.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby shrodes » Sun 05 Mar 2017 11:05am

Hickey for me. Longer does not do enough outside of the ruck contests. We have a similar problem with Holmes. When Longer does take a mark, he will 99.9% of the time go for a short handball. He almost never kicks. If I can notice that, other teams will too, and it will become a liability.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby desertsaint » Sun 05 Mar 2017 11:08am

i be somewhat bemused if round 1 v the dees sees longer picked ahead of hickey.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby saintsRrising » Sun 05 Mar 2017 11:20am

Hickey.

Plus with Dees in Round 1 remember that Hickey went very well against Gawn twice last season.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby loris » Sun 05 Mar 2017 11:26am

Any feedback on how Hickey performed at Sandy yesterday.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Moods » Sun 05 Mar 2017 11:34am

Hickey was dreadful last week. I know it was only a practice match but as I tell my own kids when they are playing sport - every time you perform there are eyes on you, never think it doesn't count. Last week obviously counted.

Having said that, I have ALWAYS rated Hickey ahead of Longer and if we are to continue to improve this year we simply have to get Hickey back to somewhere near last years form. Longer, for mine, just hasn't got as many strings to his bow. He's a robust crash and bash ruckman without the finesse or smarts of Hickey. If Longer gets smashed in 2 weeks time so be it, it'll mean that Hickey has become complacent which will mean he will have let himself and the team down - we need him firing.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Junior » Sun 05 Mar 2017 11:41am

I think Hickey is the better all round player, but no one should get a game based on last season.

Thought Hickey was bordering on embarrassing against Port, looked like he had no idea in the last quarter in the ruck contests, would love an ITK thoughts on if he his is carrying something as he did not look right. He was looking at Lobbe in the contest rather than competing and from memory got pinged a couple of times from umpires.

At their best Hickey offers more possessions more of a threat up forward, Longer more of a physical presence at stoppages which creates opportunity for our midfield.

On what I have seen in he JLT Longer is number one.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Legendary » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:01pm

Hickey is a much better footballer, and capable of performing at a higher level. One pre season game does not a season make.

If you compare Hickey's 2016 season (20 games) against Longer's 2015 season (18 games), Hickey:

  • averaged more disposals and more marks
  • averaged the same number of hitouts
  • averaged more hitouts to advantage
  • averaged more tackles
  • kicked more goals
  • won 30% more clearances
  • won nearly 50% more contested possessions
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby White Winmar » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:01pm

Hickey, Hickey, Hickey, then daylight, then Longer. They can't be seriously thinking of leaving Hickey out against Gawn. One mark and 5 touches for Billy yesterday. That's nowhere near good enough from a ruckman in the modern era. The best ruckman are extra midfielders. A bit like wicketkeepers are now required to be an extra batsman in cricket. Billy is a battler. I don't even think his tap work is that great. Hickey at his best is in another class, around the ground and in ruck work.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Bluthy » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:04pm

Image

"Hi Richo. What's that you say? Oh. So I finally get past all my crippling injuries that have held me back, show brilliant tap work putting it down mids throat sometimes, play like an extra midfielder with amazing skill for a huge guy, show some marking ability and become a top 5 ruckmen in the comp at age 25....and after one preseason game where I played a half of rusty footy I'm now back at Sandy. I see. That makes total sense. Excuse me while I go beat my head against a brick wall. You wonder why I look so crazy"
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Linton Lodger » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:05pm

Hickey is the No.1 and will soon be No. 1 in the competition.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby bigcarl » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:17pm

Legendary wrote:Hickey is a much better footballer, and capable of performing at a higher level. One pre season game does not a season make.

If you compare Hickey's 2016 season (20 games) against Longer's 2015 season (18 games), Hickey:

  • averaged more disposals and more marks
  • averaged the same number of hitouts
  • averaged more hitouts to advantage
  • averaged more tackles
  • kicked more goals
  • won 30% more clearances
  • won nearly 50% more contested possessions



When you put it that way it's pretty straight forward, isn't it.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby perfectionist » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:17pm

Tom Hickey can't jump and against a certain type of opponent who can, he gives away too many frees (mainly for shepherding). Billy can jump but is not as good running forward. Our approach should be "horses for courses". Some weeks we will have both, and others one or the other.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby bigcarl » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:20pm

Junior wrote:I think Hickey is the better all round player, but no one should get a game based on last season.


So long as they are fit and have done the work in the off-season, what better basis for selection than runs on the board at the highest level?
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Spinner » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:21pm

Bluthy wrote:Image

"Hi Richo. What's that you say? Oh. So I finally get past all my crippling injuries that have held me back, show brilliant tap work putting it down mids throat sometimes, play like an extra midfielder with amazing skill for a huge guy, show some marking ability and become a top 5 ruckmen in the comp at age 25....and after one preseason game where I played a half of rusty footy I'm now back at Sandy. I see. That makes total sense. Excuse me while I go beat my head against a brick wall. You wonder why I look so crazy"



What's this thing you have against Richo?

Anyways - Longer beat Hicky in the intraclub IMO, did pretty well against Port and obviously there are other touch points like previous scratch matches earlier in the preseason to go by. Hicky playing at Sandy if true is not a good sign.

What about endurance? Can he go for longer meaning less Bruce time in the middle? Bruce didn't spend too many in the middle yesterday in hot weather, maybe he trumps Hickey in that? Like his tap work, strength, and his tackling and blocking in the clearances.
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Re: Hickey or Longer?

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:58pm

Bluthy wrote:From match thread

tony74 wrote:
Billy is no. 1


Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.


I know tony74 is a genuine inside but some of his calls are ridiculous.

If a bloke is an elite ruckman in the comp - he doesnt get taken over by someone else based on summer pre-season training 'form'.

Longer needs to start by actually getting a kick an an actual game. Yet to be seen.
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