Billings v Bont

[Bluthy]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-02-11/b ... richardson

[BackFromUSA]

I am on record and was ridiculed at the time by a poster that I wanted the Bont because of the family connection and because we needed big bodied midfielders AND when the top 10 draftee photo came out Jack Billings was by far the smallest build of all 10 and again I expressed my concern BUT having watched Jack play I can tell he is going to be a very very dangerous player for us because he creates goals. Is he going to be as good as Bont? It doesn't matter now. What he needs to be is an important piece of our next Premiership team. He can be that.

[dragit]

Every year there will probably be a player taken after ours that becomes a better player.

All that matters is that Billings becomes a good player for us, Bont is a pretty exciting talent but I do think he has been over-rated so far.

[Bluthy]

I am on record and was ridiculed at the time by a poster that I wanted the Bont because of the family connection and because we needed big bodied midfielders AND when the top 10 draftee photo came out Jack Billings was by far the smallest build of all 10 and again I expressed my concern BUT having watched Jack play I can tell he is going to be a very very dangerous player for us because he creates goals. Is he going to be as good as Bont? It doesn't matter now. What he needs to be is an important piece of our next Premiership team. He can be that.

It's hard to do comparisons isn't it. You put Bont in our team and does he play as well? Who knows. I'm a big believer in a great system lets players shine as it gives them firm rails to run on and they can play with maximum efficiency. It's like having a shitty system at work with bad filing and IT - you spend so much energy and time getting basic stuff done it exhausts you. Look at a journeyman like Picken who knew exactly his role (locking the ball in the forward line, competing, pressuring) and that gave him great direction to apply himself 100% and he was brilliant in the finals.

Plus Billings has had injuries holding him back. His size is interesting. He's never going to be huge but Dal wasn't either. Billings seemed to have bulked up a bit and has some decent height in the air with his timing and arms. If he can be effective enough getting his own footy using his footy nouse then he could be more bullett-proof than Dal who could be shut down a bit by stopping his supply particularly in finals where its every ball in competed for.

And Richo should be great for Jack. He can really shield Jack from the comparisons and develop him at a natural rate taking the pressure off him. Richo looks a real players coach that won't let them feel alone or lost. You don't know if Tambling's confidence was destroyed by the constant knocking where he was taken compared to lower guys in the draft or whether the coaching at Richmond was just s***.

WE are building a solid even list that won't rely so much on single players. You get the system right and then the pieces that may look a bit underdeveloped or inconsistent, come together where the sum is greater than the parts and everyone looks great all of a sudden.

[saintspremiers]

All I know is that if we selected Bont it is extremely unlikely f****** Footscray would've won the flag.

Really pisses me off.

JB may be a great player one day - but our selection mistake gifted those scum an undeserved flag.

[Jacks Back]

All I know is that if we selected Bont it is extremely unlikely f****** Footscray would've won the flag.

Really pisses me off.

JB may be a great player one day - but our selection mistake gifted those scum an undeserved flag.

We have two picks in the first round next year. Give them to the dogs for Bont if people want him so bad.

[BringBackMadDog]

All I know is that if we selected Bont it is extremely unlikely f****** Footscray would've won the flag.

Really pisses me off.

JB may be a great player one day - but our selection mistake gifted those scum an undeserved flag.

What a ridiculous post. The bulldogs absolutely deserved their flag, they have recruited spectacularly, got a brilliant coach and play a fantastic style of football. Good luck to them

[Moods]

Every year there will probably be a player taken after ours that becomes a better player.

All that matters is that Billings becomes a good player for us, Bont is a pretty exciting talent but I do think he has been over-rated so far.

the blokes a superstar - I wish we had players of his ilk that were supposedly overated....

Having said that. I'm confident that Acres will become similar. Seb Ross is developing beautifully. Armo is a tank and I'm excited about Steele. Right now, there is no comparison between Billings and Bont. However I always thought that Judd was better than Hodge - does that mean Hodge was a dud? Two blokes can become stars, but one can be slightly ahead of the other. Generally the bigger bodied player will often be more effective in played in the same position.

[saintspremiers]

All I know is that if we selected Bont it is extremely unlikely f****** Footscray would've won the flag.

Really pisses me off.

JB may be a great player one day - but our selection mistake gifted those scum an undeserved flag.

What a ridiculous post. The bulldogs absolutely deserved their flag, they have recruited spectacularly, got a brilliant coach and play a fantastic style of football. Good luck to them

bulls***. Had they not got that stupid week off prior to the finals starting they would've been rooted

[Moods]

All I know is that if we selected Bont it is extremely unlikely f****** Footscray would've won the flag.

Really pisses me off.

JB may be a great player one day - but our selection mistake gifted those scum an undeserved flag.

What a ridiculous post. The bulldogs absolutely deserved their flag, they have recruited spectacularly, got a brilliant coach and play a fantastic style of football. Good luck to them

bulls***. Had they not got that stupid week off prior to the finals starting they would've been rooted

Yeah, and if my Auntie had balls she'd be my uncle. They did get the week off, like everyone else and all it enabled them to do was bring back injured players, big deal. In 05 we won through to the preliminary and it enabled us to bring back injured players as well. It's not a guarantee of anything other than playing your best or close to your best team. They won the GF with 4 x first choice players still out of the team. The whining that has gone on about that bye is quite incredible

[Saints43]

They won the GF with 4 x first choice players still out of the team. The whining that has gone on about that bye is quite incredible

And, to add the issues that they've dealt with like a stadium deal that ensures they're always close to broke and fixturing that affects their ability attract new support...

I had thought these were the things that probably stopped us taking that final step but they have shown it to be an excuse I just made for the team I love.
They have had a little bit of luck over the years with the Howard government slinging them some money for their training facility, and then about a decade later a week off at a helpful time....

They have done superbly. And I'm as bitter and resentful of them winning the second flag before us as anyone can be. But credit where it's due.

Bont is a star and JB has the potential to be one too.

[dragit]

the blokes a superstar - I wish we had players of his ilk that were supposedly overated....

I think he's a pretty exciting talent and well on the way, but I wouldn't call him a superstar (yet) and this is why I feel like he can be over-rated.

Which key areas do you think he is elite at the moment that catapult him to superstar status?

[mad saint guy]

the blokes a superstar - I wish we had players of his ilk that were supposedly overated....

I think he's a pretty exciting talent and well on the way, but I wouldn't call him a superstar (yet) and this is why I feel like he can be over-rated.

Which key areas do you think he is elite at the moment that catapult him to superstar status?

Winning contested ball, scoreboard impact (for a mid), defensive pressure and his ability to withstand pressure and still get effective disposals away. Also the fact that he was only 20 years old when he played a big role in winning his team a premiership and has shown clear improvement in every season he's played so far.

[samoht]

the blokes a superstar - I wish we had players of his ilk that were supposedly overated....

I think he's a pretty exciting talent and well on the way, but I wouldn't call him a superstar (yet) and this is why I feel like he can be over-rated.

Which key areas do you think he is elite at the moment that catapult him to superstar status?

He may not be a superstar yet, but a lot of Bont's possessions are in areas of the ground where he can strongly impact games.

Some perspective ...
Gary Ablett jnr a few years ago (who is a superstar) was getting 40 possessions on a regular basis - but a lot were in the back half of the ground. He was being criticised (at the time) for winning a lot of junk possessions.

If Billings can get some composure in his game, hold on to the ball more - he has the potential to be even more damaging than the Bont. His precision kicking (potentially) is at another level - but he seems to be rushing at the moment.
He gets his 20 possessions, but most are quick handballs (out of trouble) to a team mate.

We want to see that deadly left foot deployed. For this, he needs to back himself more - create some time and space for himself, a la Acres or Gresham. He should get some tips/cues from them.

[Moods]

the blokes a superstar - I wish we had players of his ilk that were supposedly overated....

I think he's a pretty exciting talent and well on the way, but I wouldn't call him a superstar (yet) and this is why I feel like he can be over-rated.

Which key areas do you think he is elite at the moment that catapult him to superstar status?

Check out the GF. So many of his possessions resulted directly in a doggies goal or indirectly. He has a clear head and his ability to win the ball cleanly and find a team mate would have to be the #1 most important stat in the game. His GF was enormously UNDERATED in my view. He can win the ball inside and outside, and his kicking is superb. Check out the 50m drill to Boyd in the goal square in the 2nd quarter in the GF. Only about 1/2 doz players in the league could make that pass in those circumstances. It was pretty much off one step. He has beautiful hands, and that's what sets him apart as much as anything. He's a one grab player. To be that good below his knees at that height is a fantastic asset.

For mine I rate him in the top 15 players in the league.

J.B. doesn't have the physical characteristics, but I would like to see him be cleaner with the footy. He certainly has the ability to set things up. He doesn't have the body to be an inside mid and I'm happy that we have other mids that can play that role. I don't see him as soft but I don't think he needs to throw his body under packs. He seems to also have a good pair of hands and could be a really good mark for his size. All the superstars of the comp are generally very good marks. Once he developes more consistency in his body and then strings heaps of games together I'm confident he'll be a very good 200+ game player for the saints.

[dragit]

Some solid points made… and you guys must be right as he is ranked the 5th best midfielder in the comp by champion data which is extraordinary for a player that averages around 24 touches per match and isn't in the top 50 for most standard midfield stats.

What I have noticed is that when he does something normal on the field - like a normal handpass or tackle, the corresponding commentary is befitting of someone who has just raised the dead or parted a large body of water… cyril-rioli-esque.

[desertsaint]

Some solid points made… and you guys must be right as he is ranked the 5th best midfielder in the comp by champion data which is extraordinary for a player that averages around 24 touches per match and isn't in the top 50 for most standard midfield stats.

What I have noticed is that when he does something normal on the field - like a normal handpass or tackle, the corresponding commentary is befitting of someone who has just raised the dead or parted a large body of water… cyril-rioli-esque.

he,s avery good player, but a little too overhyped and overrated, based on speculation of what it appears he'll become. i reckon he'll live up to it.

[Moods]

Some solid points made… and you guys must be right as he is ranked the 5th best midfielder in the comp by champion data which is extraordinary for a player that averages around 24 touches per match and isn't in the top 50 for most standard midfield stats.

What I have noticed is that when he does something normal on the field - like a normal handpass or tackle, the corresponding commentary is befitting of someone who has just raised the dead or parted a large body of water… cyril-rioli-esque.

I reckon you're referring to the Semi final against the Hawks where he was very good, but possibly some commentators went over the top - understandable considering it was a big Melbourne final, doggies won unexpectedly and a 19 year old kid played well. I actually think that his game is underrated though. I'm one of the few people who had him in the best 3 players on the ground in the GF. I had Josh Kennedy and Picken only in front of him. I actually think people expect too much from him and things like that kick to Boyd in the goal square is just considered part and parcel of his game. He's not electric quick like Judd was (who was a similar height) and he doesn't smash heads so I think he goes a bit unnoticed. I'm not a huge wrap for mids who accumulate 30+ possessions every week Dane Swan style. Chris Judd didn't often get over 30, even at his peak. Quality mids are often tagged so the quality of their possessions becomes ultra important. I'm a big fan of Jack Steven but not as big as some. I would like him to become more consistent with the ball in hand. He breaks lines and is very capable of hitting fwds on the chest, but he can also can spray the ball. To become an elite mid in the comp I reckon that's the one area of his game he needs to improve by about 10% and he will be there.

[Bluthy]

Some solid points made… and you guys must be right as he is ranked the 5th best midfielder in the comp by champion data which is extraordinary for a player that averages around 24 touches per match and isn't in the top 50 for most standard midfield stats.

What I have noticed is that when he does something normal on the field - like a normal handpass or tackle, the corresponding commentary is befitting of someone who has just raised the dead or parted a large body of water… cyril-rioli-esque.

Apparently Bonts rating got boosted by going third man up at ball ups a fair bit. Champion data boosted the value of tap outs this year to more accurately reflect the value of rucking and the third men up got some collateral boost. But shows his versatility to be a ball winning inside, classy ball user outside mid who can play as a big forward and be effective in the ruck. Handy.

[supersaints]

Some solid points made… and you guys must be right as he is ranked the 5th best midfielder in the comp by champion data which is extraordinary for a player that averages around 24 touches per match and isn't in the top 50 for most standard midfield stats.

What I have noticed is that when he does something normal on the field - like a normal handpass or tackle, the corresponding commentary is befitting of someone who has just raised the dead or parted a large body of water… cyril-rioli-esque.

I reckon you're referring to the Semi final against the Hawks where he was very good, but possibly some commentators went over the top - understandable considering it was a big Melbourne final, doggies won unexpectedly and a 19 year old kid played well. I actually think that his game is underrated though. I'm one of the few people who had him in the best 3 players on the ground in the GF. I had Josh Kennedy and Picken only in front of him. I actually think people expect too much from him and things like that kick to Boyd in the goal square is just considered part and parcel of his game. He's not electric quick like Judd was (who was a similar height) and he doesn't smash heads so I think he goes a bit unnoticed. I'm not a huge wrap for mids who accumulate 30+ possessions every week Dane Swan style. Chris Judd didn't often get over 30, even at his peak. Quality mids are often tagged so the quality of their possessions becomes ultra important. I'm a big fan of Jack Steven but not as big as some. I would like him to become more consistent with the ball in hand. He breaks lines and is very capable of hitting fwds on the chest, but he can also can spray the ball. To become an elite mid in the comp I reckon that's the one area of his game he needs to improve by about 10% and he will be there.

So you don't like???
Neal
Dangerfield
Martin
Treloar
Hannabery
Kennedy

What's not to like??? Very strange opinion

[BigMart]

Up until half time he was opposed at stoppage to Josh Kennedy

He got a bath

At HT that match up was changed as JK was winning the game off his own boot

When analyising what a player is doing, consider both parts of their game
Offence and defence

In the end Bont had a fair game, and got a few important possessions but was nowhere near the best player

Boyd, Johannesson, Libba (underrated), Morris were really good

While Kennedy was BOG IMO his first half was the best half of footy I've seen in a gf

[#gosaintas]

Bont is so overrated that it's ridiculous. If he takes a chest mark the fappers go all gooey.

[Moods]

Some solid points made… and you guys must be right as he is ranked the 5th best midfielder in the comp by champion data which is extraordinary for a player that averages around 24 touches per match and isn't in the top 50 for most standard midfield stats.

What I have noticed is that when he does something normal on the field - like a normal handpass or tackle, the corresponding commentary is befitting of someone who has just raised the dead or parted a large body of water… cyril-rioli-esque.

I reckon you're referring to the Semi final against the Hawks where he was very good, but possibly some commentators went over the top - understandable considering it was a big Melbourne final, doggies won unexpectedly and a 19 year old kid played well. I actually think that his game is underrated though. I'm one of the few people who had him in the best 3 players on the ground in the GF. I had Josh Kennedy and Picken only in front of him. I actually think people expect too much from him and things like that kick to Boyd in the goal square is just considered part and parcel of his game. He's not electric quick like Judd was (who was a similar height) and he doesn't smash heads so I think he goes a bit unnoticed. I'm not a huge wrap for mids who accumulate 30+ possessions every week Dane Swan style. Chris Judd didn't often get over 30, even at his peak. Quality mids are often tagged so the quality of their possessions becomes ultra important. I'm a big fan of Jack Steven but not as big as some. I would like him to become more consistent with the ball in hand. He breaks lines and is very capable of hitting fwds on the chest, but he can also can spray the ball. To become an elite mid in the comp I reckon that's the one area of his game he needs to improve by about 10% and he will be there.

So you don't like???
Neal
Dangerfield
Martin
Treloar
Hannabery
Kennedy

What's not to like??? Very strange opinion

Yeah - all great players, but I rate Bont ahead of all but 2 of them - Danger and Kennedy

[BigMart]

Is a good young player... probably on par with Cripps (b&f winner) at Carlton, maybe a tad better...

but is overhyped

Sheil, Treloar, T.Mitchell, Prestia, Viney are all about as good as him

Not as good as

Priddis, Mitchell, Martin, Hannebery, Steven, Neale, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Pendlebury, Rockliff, Beams, Cotchin, Kennedy, Ablett

And a few other who are proven performers year after year and are the dominant players of the comp

Don't buy into media hype... look at actual output, without the commentary mayo

He's no Cyril Rioli - the most overrated player in the history of the game - but is overrated.

[Moods]

Is a good young player... probably on par with Cripps (b&f winner) at Carlton, maybe a tad better...

but is overhyped

Sheil, Treloar, T.Mitchell, Prestia, Viney are all about as good as him

Not as good as

Priddis, Mitchell, Martin, Hannebery, Steven, Neale, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Pendlebury, Rockliff, Beams, Cotchin, Kennedy, Ablett

And a few other who are proven performers year after year and are the dominant players of the comp

Don't buy into media hype... look at actual output, without the commentary mayo

He's no Cyril Rioli - the most overrated player in the history of the game - but is overrated.

Sheil is a gun - the others you listed as on par are very good goers, but not in the same class.

Mitchel and Priddis are very different footballers to Bont. Bont has them for outside run, kicking penetration and goal sense. He's also more dangerous in the air. Both Priddis and Mitchell have better hands and are gun inside mids. Very hard to compare them. The comparison ends at the position they play in.

I can cop Danger, Fyfe, Kennedy and Pendles as being better. The rest I won't. Ablett is better than all of them if he's at his best. I reckon his best is behind him though. Every player is judged on year in year our performance - that is hard when you've only played 3 years though. Obviously my assessment of Bont is based on what I think he will be (and where he stands after last years performance)

We obviously disagree which is fine. It's very rare to read on here that anyone thinks that any other player in the comp is any good if they don't wear red, white and black.