Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

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Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Tue 17 Jan 2017 2:17pm

Reasons to be cheerful.

1. Alan Richardson. Make no mistake, we are in good hands. We have learned our lessons well. GT was a charismatic leader, whose ability to motivate and inspire was strong, particularly amongst the younger players. Not so much with the older ones. He created an exciting and dynamic environment, in which creativity was valued. He didn't lack a technical and tactical side, but he was often said to be slow or reluctant to act. He had the best list I've ever seen at the saints. 2004-5 should've seen us salute. Took on too much and needed to be in control. It was his undoing in the end, along with his volatile falling out with RB. RL was very much the opposite. Measured, calm, respected rather than liked, he has a great footy brain, but like GT, could be stubborn to the point of self destruction. Where GT was all for flair, RL invested heavily in his structures, processes and plans. He came oh so close. He was not a great developer of talent, rather he backed himself to make players what he needed to fit the plan. I can't help thinking the likes of Stanley, McEvoy and Lynch would've become great players for us under GT. And we would never had taken Lovett if GT had been there. Nick would've convinced GT not to do it. As for Watters, he was a decent enough bloke, who like Mark Neeld, drank the poison bath water of Mickey Shithouse. A potentially good coach ruined by the MM mantra of being your own man and calling the shots. To pull off the hard guy act, you have to be one in the first place. Otherwise you just come off like a try hard jerk. The nickname of "cuddles" doesn't help your cause, either. At least it delivered us AR. He is the best bits of RL and GT. Liked, respected, develops and trusts his assistants (doesn't burn them out and frustrate them RL) and seems to have a healthy relationship with the playing list. He is very savvy in the tactics department and has assembled a great team around him. The administration has never looked better, either. We are moving into a 2004-11 era again. This time, we won't blow it.

2. Exciting youngsters. Ross, Acres, Billings, McCartin, Dunstan, Gresham, Freeman, McKenzie, White, Newnes, Steele, Long, Battle and Pierce. Several with the potential to be elite. I think at least four will end up there over the next three years. Our development coaches are doing a great job. Draft position is important, but development after you get young players is so much more important.

3. Sweet spot recruiting. Carlisle, Brown, Stevens, Savage and Roberton. All good. Carlisle to be elite.

4. The CEO, Bains, Trout, Peter Summers and the Board. Not since the days of Huggins, Drake and Jeans has the club been in better hands.

5. Burgeoning membership. On track for 40k. Best and most loyal supporters in the comp.

6. Roo.

Reasons to be fearful.

1. The coming dominance of the GWS. Hopefully they won't be another BL or Hawthorn. Just our luck that our rapid improvement is coinciding with their maturation into an awesome side. Hopefully, the other clubs can keep pinching players from their list and thin out the herd a bit.

2. The AFL's determination to make the new boys succeed. See above. Watch out for the GCS as well. I had a look at their list. Even without JOM and Prestia, it has awesome potential. Luckily they've not had a coach the players connect with. Bluey a bit of a goose, rocket is very much past his use by.

3. The NZ experiment. Just give it up. If you're looking for a new market go to India. We have the ultimate marketing machine. Shane Warne. Two games in New Delhi and Mumbai. Millions of dollars to play each game. If Warney got on the wireless and telly and told Indians to go to these games, they would. Make Warnie an official AFL ambassador. Imagine going into a potential market of 1.2 billion and growing. A middle class of 120 million. Makes NZ look sick by comparison. Makes the Australian market look meagre by comparison. Venues not a problem. They'll just build new ones.

4. No getting under the opposition's guard this year. They're onto us and AR's methods for rapid ball movement. Last year was good, this year we have to be even better again. The game is changing so rapidly. Fewer stoppages seems to be the mantra from HQ. Make the game more attractive. Run and spread. Even quicker movement. Over to you, AR.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby wasoncestkil58 » Tue 17 Jan 2017 2:32pm

Great review. As a long suffering and long loving Sainter I think we are on the right path. Just hope Rooey is around when we taste success.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Tue 17 Jan 2017 7:04pm

Reasons to be cheerful. Correction.

2. Forgot about Sinclair, Lonie, Goddard, Wright, Webster and the meatball. Not all will make it, but you've got ton and it to the recruiters and developers. We're poised to launch!
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby skeptic » Tue 17 Jan 2017 7:30pm

White Winmar wrote:3. The NZ experiment. Just give it up. If you're looking for a new market go to India. We have the ultimate marketing machine. Shane Warne. Two games in New Delhi and Mumbai. Millions of dollars to play each game. If Warney got on the wireless and telly and told Indians to go to these games, they would. Make Warnie an official AFL ambassador. Imagine going into a potential market of 1.2 billion and growing. A middle class of 120 million. Makes NZ look sick by comparison. Makes the Australian market look meagre by comparison. Venues not a problem. They'll just build new ones.



Geeeez I like that
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby No Holds Bard » Tue 17 Jan 2017 8:28pm

skeptic wrote:
White Winmar wrote:3. The NZ experiment. Just give it up. If you're looking for a new market go to India. We have the ultimate marketing machine. Shane Warne. Two games in New Delhi and Mumbai. Millions of dollars to play each game. If Warney got on the wireless and telly and told Indians to go to these games, they would. Make Warnie an official AFL ambassador. Imagine going into a potential market of 1.2 billion and growing. A middle class of 120 million. Makes NZ look sick by comparison. Makes the Australian market look meagre by comparison. Venues not a problem. They'll just build new ones.



Geeeez I like that


Cry "Havoc," and let slip the dogs of war!!! Can one desire too much of a good thing??? :twisted:
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Trev from the Bush » Tue 17 Jan 2017 9:32pm

Can't argue with you WW. Never argue with anybody old enough to remember Ian Dury and The Blockheads! :D
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Tue 17 Jan 2017 9:49pm

Trev from the Bush wrote:Can't argue with you WW. Never argue with anybody old enough to remember Ian Dury and The Blockheads! :D

Hit meeeeee! :D
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Devilhead » Tue 17 Jan 2017 9:52pm

skeptic wrote:
White Winmar wrote:3. The NZ experiment. Just give it up. If you're looking for a new market go to India. We have the ultimate marketing machine. Shane Warne. Two games in New Delhi and Mumbai. Millions of dollars to play each game. If Warney got on the wireless and telly and told Indians to go to these games, they would. Make Warnie an official AFL ambassador. Imagine going into a potential market of 1.2 billion and growing. A middle class of 120 million. Makes NZ look sick by comparison. Makes the Australian market look meagre by comparison. Venues not a problem. They'll just build new ones.



Geeeez I like that


From 2011

http://www.foxsports.com.au/news/richmond-look-to-push-the-tigers-and-afl-into-india-with-the-support-of-cricket-great-rahul-dravid/news-story/928aae16aec78a07aa0de7e98e579cff

Doesn't sound like they have been too successful
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Tue 17 Jan 2017 10:08pm

That's Richmond you're talking about. They've not succeeded at anything in the last 35 years. It was also six years ago. A lot has changed in that time. Imagine aligning ourselves with BBL and IPL franchises. We've got to think big.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Zed » Tue 17 Jan 2017 10:12pm

More reasons to be Cheery

Squad strength: Out - Fisher. In - Carlisle, Brown, Stevens, Steele.
Breakout year potential: Billings, Acres, Paddy, Lonie, Sinclair, Mckenzie
Surprise packet potential: Gresham, White, Long, Freeman, Meatball
Other: Salary cap space, 2 x first round picks
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby st.byron » Wed 18 Jan 2017 1:12am

White Winmar wrote:
Trev from the Bush wrote:Can't argue with you WW. Never argue with anybody old enough to remember Ian Dury and The Blockheads! :D

Hit meeeeee! :D


Reasons To Be Cheerful Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIMNXogXnvE

Love this.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Sat 21 Jan 2017 9:14am

We've gone past 32,000 members. In mid January! 40k looms!
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Wayne42 » Sat 21 Jan 2017 9:20am

White Winmar wrote:We've gone past 32,000 members. In mid January! 40k looms!


The fair weathers are jumping back on the wagon.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby To the top » Sat 21 Jan 2017 10:10am

In the new world order, led by the leader of the free world, the question is "What is in it for me?"

So I said to the family dog this morning, and prior to taking her for her morning walk, "What is in this for me?"

And I showed her my empty pocket and asked what was going to be put in it?

Because money is central to "What is in it for me?"

The morning walk did not happen because there was no monetary advantage in it for me.

I have a very, very grumpy dog on my hands.

And she has proceeded to dig a hole in my ex pristine back lawn!!

For every action there is a reaction.

Society is in a sad, sad place with the dis-advantage of "trickle down" economics and the dis-advantage of the most effective form of regulation being self regulation.

Trust is being eroded, in our politicians prosecuting "trickle down" economics and that the most effective form of regulation is self regulation, in our media and in society generally courtesy of the attacks we see on demographics of our society.

The question is always "Why?"

And no two circumstances will be the same.

What that means is that it is bloody hard and never ending work - and asking "What is in it for me?" and putting yourself and advantage to self first is not the solution - it is the problem.

St Kilda FC is built on team, and support for that team from remunerated employees, to volunteers and to supporters.

Not by people asking "What is in it for me?"

No words can express what was inflicted on people going about their business in the Melbourne CBD yesterday.

The question is "Why?"

What led to this and how can we make every effort to ensure such (and I do not have a word) does not replicate.

And no one should be spared in asking that question - including media reporting because others may look to replicate.

If you have nothing to value and protect .........
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Bluthy » Sun 22 Jan 2017 11:46am

I hope you are right about Richo dubdub. I'm still sitting on the fence with him but his year I think will be a chance to really see what he can deliver. Its now fully his team being able to see out the contracts of the incumbants he didn't want and playing a big role in the drafting and trading to get the players to implement his game plan. A lot of the talented youngsters will be past that 50 game, 3-4 years mark to be effective AFL players. Plus he's brought in some big bodies in Stevens, Brown, Steele etc so I don't think he can hide behind many excuses this year.

What worries me a bit about him is those blow outs still from last year. The elite coaches are the ones that are able to completely control the field. They have the systems and moves and tactics to shut down oppo momentum and minimise the damage until it swings back your way. That is what wins you big finals and flags. You can't let the oppo get easy goals or multiple goals in short time. You want to make it a slog out there for the oppo, every goal a huge effort, to grind them down every minute over four quarters, with everything contested and wearing, and run over them at the end.

We had good pressure last year but not the corresponding tackles so the big oppo were able to consistently break free and hurt us. So Richo will be looking for our bigger bodies to lift that tackle count. But will his system let him lockdown all over the field like Clarkson and Beveridge's zoning can do? Malthouse used the wings so any turnovers wouldn't result in easy goals and oppo teams got lost on the big wings of the G running themselves to a stand still.

What tactics and systems has Richo got in him that is unique? I like coaches that bring something new to the table particularly if its complex - it gives them something unique that can take your team a long way in September as the oppo struggle to unpack it. The fast ball movement and attack is great for our brand and ability to score is really important in modern footy (take note Lyon!). But its the ability to keep the oppo to a low score, put out fires when the oppo are on top, make the clever moves, kill their momentum, tighten the net and stop the shark from swimming (thanks Clarko) that wins you a flag.

I can't help but wonder what if we got Beveridge as head coach, where would we be? He was coming to our club as foot manager so we did recognise his talent. Were we too gun ho on getting Richo after the Watters debacle? All hypothetical I know but you can't help what if.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Sun 22 Jan 2017 3:36pm

I think Richo might have a trick or two up his sleeve, Bluth. As you stated, this year will tell. We caught most by surprise last year. No such luxury now. He has a solid team of assistants and he appears to be very inclusive and willing to listen. This has seen his assistants as well as the players improve rapidly. Yes, the blowouts were a bad sign, but I'm told he's a quick learner.

The Luke Beveridge situation was a real sliding doors moment. The timing didn't help, but the mere fact we were prepared to make him Director of Coaching shows we were on the ball. I'm biased because Luke coached my old club to three flags, have known and worked with dad on and off for a couple of decades and there is a copper in the family as well. They are a really good family and I wasn't surprised he coached a flag so soon. Ask anyone at St.Bede's Mentone about Luke. He has god like status there.

I think there's so much improvement left in this group. Even the impending loss of Roo doesn't phase me anymore. He'll probably play on like Harvs, if his knee and Catherine let him. If only they could win it for him. As I stated, it's 2004-11 all over again, with Roo in Banger's place. I thought that when the final siren went in the 2010 GF replay, I'd never see my saints salute. Now, I'm starting to believe again. A definite reason to be cheerful, part four (yet to be written).
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Legendary » Mon 23 Jan 2017 9:41am

Beveridge said to Finnis and Summers that he would turn down the Bulldogs offer and honour his commitment to the Saints if we wanted him to.

What a man.

I would argue that Beveridge, Longmire and Cameron - arguably the three most successful coaches of 2017 - showed that you don't need unique or revolutionary tactics to play deep into September
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Tue 31 Jan 2017 3:51pm

Nathan Freemam on track. Calf dealt with, hammies going strong. A definite reason to be cheerful?
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Bluthy » Thu 02 Feb 2017 11:12am

Legendary wrote:Beveridge said to Finnis and Summers that he would turn down the Bulldogs offer and honour his commitment to the Saints if we wanted him to.

What a man.

I would argue that Beveridge, Longmire and Cameron - arguably the three most successful coaches of 2017 - showed that you don't need unique or revolutionary tactics to play deep into September


Longmire yes - he did have the slingshot for a while though but seems to really just built on Roos style to be a bit more attacking but nothing particularly original. Maybe why his team are coming undone in grannies - to easy to pull their game plan apart over the course of the year despite huge home ground advantage.

Cameron just has ridiculous talent at his disposal. Looks like he's building an incredibly attacking backline though. We should could a really clear idea of how he wants his team to play this year. There is a actually a lot of pressure on him with GWS being premiership favourites and all clubs working on how to stop them. Its one thing being attacking and talented but he's got to show he knows how to keep the oppo to a low score.

Beveridge I strongly disagree. His handball academy took fast hands in close to a new level. Also throwing - Libba would often just throw it out of a pack to get it out (which umps said they are cutting back on) Combined that with Clarkson-style zoning and they were really good at closing the game down when the oppo had it, locking it in and then utilising their fast hands to work it out and get it going their way.

Richo has some good sized talent on his books now. Time to really see what he can implement on the field.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Thu 02 Feb 2017 11:23am

It is hard to judge where Cameron sits in the coaching pecking order. He's like the kid who got the first ten picks in the schoolyard footy game. The odds are heavily stacked in his favour. Beveridge took over a basket case. Turned it around in an amazingly short period of time. Yes, they got their draft picks right and had a reasonably good list when McCartney got booted, but he showed how far you can go on belief, intensity and unity. Game plans run a distant fourth to those three factors.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby spert » Thu 02 Feb 2017 12:20pm

Bluthy wrote:
Legendary wrote:Beveridge said to Finnis and Summers that he would turn down the Bulldogs offer and honour his commitment to the Saints if we wanted him to.

What a man.

I would argue that Beveridge, Longmire and Cameron - arguably the three most successful coaches of 2017 - showed that you don't need unique or revolutionary tactics to play deep into September


Longmire yes - he did have the slingshot for a while though but seems to really just built on Roos style to be a bit more attacking but nothing particularly original. Maybe why his team are coming undone in grannies - to easy to pull their game plan apart over the course of the year despite huge home ground advantage.

Cameron just has ridiculous talent at his disposal. Looks like he's building an incredibly attacking backline though. We should could a really clear idea of how he wants his team to play this year. There is a actually a lot of pressure on him with GWS being premiership favourites and all clubs working on how to stop them. Its one thing being attacking and talented but he's got to show he knows how to keep the oppo to a low score.

Beveridge I strongly disagree. His handball academy took fast hands in close to a new level. Also throwing - Libba would often just throw it out of a pack to get it out (which umps said they are cutting back on) Combined that with Clarkson-style zoning and they were really good at closing the game down when the oppo had it, locking it in and then utilising their fast hands to work it out and get it going their way.

Richo has some good sized talent on his books now. Time to really see what he can implement on the field.


I agree about LB's handball work- those fast hands were amazing. Also agree about the throwing out of pack by Libba especially- never seen so much fake handball over the head stuff around boundary throw ins and ball ups with backs to the umps, but they got away with it. I see LB as a GT with an extra technical side to his coaching.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Bluthy » Sun 05 Feb 2017 10:46am

White Winmar wrote:It is hard to judge where Cameron sits in the coaching pecking order. He's like the kid who got the first ten picks in the schoolyard footy game. The odds are heavily stacked in his favour. Beveridge took over a basket case. Turned it around in an amazingly short period of time. Yes, they got their draft picks right and had a reasonably good list when McCartney got booted, but he showed how far you can go on belief, intensity and unity. Game plans run a distant fourth to those three factors.


I think the premiership coaches have both the ability to really connect with their players and also the tactical smarts. I think you need both. I don't know if Lyon was really good at building players confidence up particularly the lower skilled ones. He was so obsessed with his system at all costs.

Malthouse, Clarkson, Beveridge, Blight, Barrassi, Jeans et al all seem to be real father figures (authoritative but guiding) that get quite young men (almost boys in some cases) to find real backbone, inner strength and courage to take the game on under huge pressure. Add a good onfield system and structure in and you have something that holds up in September even when the tide is against you and you are about to drown. That's often when you find out what inner steel players have.

You need to find out what can motivate players to find that extra 5% when they are already running at 100% (I know that's not mathematically correct but is metaphor shut up). What gets through to players, what taps into their emotions and drives and desperations as humans can do amazing things when really motivated.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Sun 05 Feb 2017 2:56pm

The last sentence sums it up perfectly, Bluth. As the old saying goes, "a lion leading a pack of sheep will always beat a sheep leading a pack of lions." I'm not sure that would work on the plains of the Serengeti, but it certainly works in sport and business. Most game plans are very similar. The AFL is a small community. Nothing remains innovative for long. The motivation of the team and individual counts for much more. If you have a why, you'll find a how (Viktor Frankl) or it may have been Andrew O'Keefe who said it.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby Con Gorozidis » Sun 05 Feb 2017 3:45pm

I think AR understands this as Hawthorn understand this. 'The family club' is more then a glib motto imo. Players are individual humans who play for themselves and their families first. Ranting and raving about playing for the 'jumper' or to 'stick it up' some other club or media etc isnt really in touch with deeper human motivations and is only a short term motivator.
This is why I think AR is a good coach for us because he treats players as full humans.
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Re: Reasons to be cheerful. Reasons to be fearful.

Postby White Winmar » Thu 09 Feb 2017 3:25am

The new leadership group.
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