It's All About The Tractor

[goods]

I bet they wish they had McCartin!

At the end of 2014, we had a depleted forward line. Besides Rooey, there was nobody. We needed a key forward, not a midfielder. So we got a KEY FORWARD. Why on earth would we have got Petracca when we needed to get a key forward? Answer me that one!!!

McCartin may well come good. However in a rebuild I would always pick an elite mid over a FF, games are won in the midfield with an even spread of goal kickers. essentialy you need 4 or 5 elite in the middle. That shpuld always be your priority.. preferably all same age, then you build from there.

[SydneySainter]

I bet they wish they had McCartin!

At the end of 2014, we had a depleted forward line. Besides Rooey, there was nobody. We needed a key forward, not a midfielder. So we got a KEY FORWARD. Why on earth would we have got Petracca when we needed to get a key forward? Answer me that one!!!

McCartin may well come good. However I would always pick an elite mid over a FF, games are won in the midfield with an even spread of goal kickers. essentialy you need 4 or 5 elite in the middle. That shpuld always be your priority.. preferably all same age.

4 or 5 elite mids in the one team???

A handful of teams might be lucky to have two (Geelong, Richmond, Collingwood) and the odd occasion a team might have the rare privilege of having three (Swans, 2006 Eagles), but four or more is unheard of.

[Sainternist]

I bet they wish they had McCartin!

At the end of 2014, we had a depleted forward line. Besides Rooey, there was nobody. We needed a key forward, not a midfielder. So we got a KEY FORWARD. Why on earth would we have got Petracca when we needed to get a key forward? Answer me that one!!!

McCartin may well come good. However I would always pick an elite mid over a FF, games are won in the midfield with an even spread of goal kickers. essentialy you need 4 or 5 elite in the middle. That shpuld always be your priority.. preferably all same age.

So you would completely neglect building a forward line and focus completely on the midfield? We HAD NO forwards apart from Riewoldt at the end of 2014. If you are suggesting we should have ignored that problem completely, then you really know absolutely nothing about a football team's list management.

School up on this and then get back to me. I am tried of hearing this ignorant crap.

[White Winmar]

Indeed, Sainternist. We chose on need rather than outright quality. Paddy will be good. I don't think he's a No.1, but he was by far the best choice based on future need. If JB had turned out to be like Bont, we'd not be having Paddy threads.,

[Devilhead]

Petracca pfttt

Will be an ok player no doubt but has yet to.impact when seriously needed - front runner

[White Winmar]

Hmm mm...

Why would you bump this thread, you nincompoop?

Should be moved to opposition forum.

Anyway, Petracca or no Petracca, Melbourne are about to LOSE to Richmond.

After eleven years, the Melbourne rebuild continues. Or is that a rebuild of a rebuild?

It is a rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild. The team that hasn't made the finals since 2006 and won't this year. Again. It's why I was really disappointed we lost to them in round one. They are very ordinary. Petracca or no Petracca.

[stevie]

I bet they wish they had McCartin!

At the end of 2014, we had a depleted forward line. Besides Rooey, there was nobody. We needed a key forward, not a midfielder. So we got a KEY FORWARD. Why on earth would we have got Petracca when we needed to get a key forward? Answer me that one!!!

McCartin may well come good. However I would always pick an elite mid over a FF, games are won in the midfield with an even spread of goal kickers. essentialy you need 4 or 5 elite in the middle. That shpuld always be your priority.. preferably all same age.

4 or 5 elite mids in the one team???

A handful of teams might be lucky to have two (Geelong, Richmond, Collingwood) and the odd occasion a team might have the rare privilege of having three (Swans, 2006 Eagles), but four or more is unheard of.

You don't rate the Lions Fab Four of 2001/03?

[asiu]

<THUD!>

I reckon that the majority of the forum wanted Petracca picked too.

Go back and you will see many many pro-Petracca threads besides yours. Many with better discussion that the one you chose to bump. But the Saints did not pick him and so time to just go with who they did pick up..

Better discussion than this?? Not likely.

[magnifisaint]

I love Petracca.


If we don't snap him up at 1, I'm buying a membership (which I was going to boycott due to the Essendon s***) and sending it straight back to the club in a fit of spurned rage!


There. I said it.

Have you been true to your word or are you still spinning the crap?

[remboy]

Petracca pfttt

Will be an ok player no doubt but has yet to.impact when seriously needed - front runner

I'm just waiting for Hutchy to come out and say that Melbourne should have taken Bontempelli ahead of Petracca. Surely if we should have taken him ahead of McCartin it makes sense.

[ace]

I bet they wish they had McCartin!

At the end of 2014, we had a depleted forward line. Besides Rooey, there was nobody. We needed a key forward, not a midfielder. So we got a KEY FORWARD. Why on earth would we have got Petracca when we needed to get a key forward? Answer me that one!!!

Because we needed a key forward for St Kilda not Sandringham.
If a key forward was not availaible for St Kilda we should have got a midfielder for St Kilda.

[BigMart]

Do you know what you need when you have the number 1 pick.... the best player

Doesn't matter whether it's Alex Rance, Eddie Betts, Nick Riewoldt, Chad Winguard, Joel Selwood or whoever.... but it especially doesn't matter whatever position they play?!

Ability is ability.... you choose the best player, then the rest takes care of itself

You don't try and replace Robert Harvey (Beetham) or Riewoldt (McCartin)
1/because they are irreplaceable
2/because you may overlook something because your view is narrowed
3/because when you draft, you look at a 12 year player... who the hell do you know what you need (except talent) in 6-8 years
Both those players kept playing anyway

If our recruiters picked positionally with a first rounder, they are incompetent ! If they got spooked because the dogs overpaid for Boyd, they are inept, if they chose against CP because they didn't think he was the best player... well they are just not that good at their job, or made a blunder

Paddy maybe a good player.... but let's be completely honest... even if we don't want to hear it?
CP is already (despite a knee reco) a far better player, and his projection is only going one way!!!

Get used to it

BTW
Who were all our elite mids in 2014?????
We came last
Jack had 1 b&f and was just reasonable in 14
Armo was still building
Seb was at Sandy
Dal and BJ gone
Billings was always gonna be a HF/Mid

[Sainter_Dad]

We HAD NO forwards apart from Riewoldt at the end of 2014.

I would argue that we still have NO forwards - or we would not be having this discussion as it make sense for Paddy to develop his body/strength/endurance in the VFL, and picking up the speed of the game, and different forward roles to the TAC (enforced stay at home forwards).

Bruce is a good foil, and had one break out year where no one was expecting his success so he took defenders by surprise;
Membrey is a fantastic 3rd, but I see his role more as a link up between the arcs, making use of his strong marking and good kicking (read future Roo on the wing role);
Roo is Roo - but not a tall forward anymore;
Problem is - I have run out of options

That is why we are so focussed on Paddy - if we had a functioning forward line Paddy's development would be considered on track.

I still think 2018 will be Paddy's year. I originally thought 2017 when he was drafted, but with his injuries/management etc, this should be revised to 2018

/end rant

[BigMart]

The big concern is Paddys fitness levels?

Can we not see, or don't want to see that he is clearly not in AFL condition?!

FFS
When he was drafted his Skin Folds were 60... and he'd dropped 20.
What was his running power like? What was his speed like? Repeat running?
Because after 3 seasons in a full time elite training program... he still lumbers at VFL level

And he's 193cm not 203cm

[SydneySainter]

I bet they wish they had McCartin!

At the end of 2014, we had a depleted forward line. Besides Rooey, there was nobody. We needed a key forward, not a midfielder. So we got a KEY FORWARD. Why on earth would we have got Petracca when we needed to get a key forward? Answer me that one!!!

McCartin may well come good. However I would always pick an elite mid over a FF, games are won in the midfield with an even spread of goal kickers. essentialy you need 4 or 5 elite in the middle. That shpuld always be your priority.. preferably all same age.

4 or 5 elite mids in the one team???

A handful of teams might be lucky to have two (Geelong, Richmond, Collingwood) and the odd occasion a team might have the rare privilege of having three (Swans, 2006 Eagles), but four or more is unheard of.

You don't rate the Lions Fab Four of 2001/03?

I certainly rated them and regard Black, Voss and Aker as elite. But, as much as Lappin was an A-grade mid and a very important player during that era, I think you'd be overrating him a tab to call him elite.

But even if others disagree and for the sake of the argument we call all four of them elite mids, I rest my case. A midfield like the Lions during their premiership era is an extremely rare privilege that comes along once in a generation. The Eagles during their 2006 premiership is the only one I can recall in recent years that has come close.

If we could secure two elite mids, I think we'll have done extremely well. As it stands, we have one. Again, some may disagree with me, but as much as I love Jack, he's certainly an A-grade mid, but not quite elite.

[Sainternist]

We HAD NO forwards apart from Riewoldt at the end of 2014.

I would argue that we still have NO forwards - or we would not be having this discussion as it make sense for Paddy to develop his body/strength/endurance in the VFL, and picking up the speed of the game, and different forward roles to the TAC (enforced stay at home forwards).

Bruce is a good foil, and had one break out year where no one was expecting his success so he took defenders by surprise;
Membrey is a fantastic 3rd, but I see his role more as a link up between the arcs, making use of his strong marking and good kicking (read future Roo on the wing role);
Roo is Roo - but not a tall forward anymore;
Problem is - I have run out of options

That is why we are so focussed on Paddy - if we had a functioning forward line Paddy's development would be considered on track.

I still think 2018 will be Paddy's year. I originally thought 2017 when he was drafted, but with his injuries/management etc, this should be revised to 2018

/end rant

Correct, SD.

Josh Bruce was a defender who fortunately got a chance to play up forward and turned out to be a real wild card. I like how versatile he has become. He can even contest the odd ruck duel when either Hickey or Longer gets bench time.

Membrey has been a great bargain, but not he isn't the focal point we need up there. I'm very impressed with how strong he has been over head, though.

But really, our forward line is our greatest weakness. Ideally Paddy would be starting to flourish right now, but he has been pretty darn unlucky. Multiple concussions last year really hampered him. Of course he also has to contend with his diabetes. I'm getting the impression he has been restricted on the field. It's almost as though they've put him in a ball of cotton wool. There's still plenty of football to be played this season. I really hope his health and confidence start to change soon and his development can still continue in full swing this year. There's no question he has a ability. It just seems to be a matter of having his health right.

[longtimesaint]

Petracca is well overrated at the moment.
He may end up a good player but at present the hype is way ahead of his performance.
I am glad we chose Paddy as I believe he will ne a very good player for us.
Midfielders are more plentiful and we are likely to have two picks in the top 10 this year,

[BigMart]

Dustin Martin is a mid... is he plentiful, Wines, Fyfe, Gray, Sheil


Mids are plentiful

Match winning mids are like diamonds, rare!

Name the best 25 player in the AFL.. how many are mids?.. because they are important

Joel Selwood showed us why Sunday

[SaintPav]

If we had Cheatwood and Danger in our midfield would we be top 4?

Is it that simple?

We'd certainly get more frees.

[BigMart]

If we had a guy that put his nose over the pill as much as either... yes we would

They crack in harder than most, it's why they are who they are in the AFL

[twirlyhair]

I bet they wish they had McCartin!

At the end of 2014, we had a depleted forward line. Besides Rooey, there was nobody. We needed a key forward, not a midfielder. So we got a KEY FORWARD. Why on earth would we have got Petracca when we needed to get a key forward? Answer me that one!!!

McCartin may well come good. However I would always pick an elite mid over a FF, games are won in the midfield with an even spread of goal kickers. essentialy you need 4 or 5 elite in the middle. That shpuld always be your priority.. preferably all same age.

So you would completely neglect building a forward line and focus completely on the midfield? We HAD NO forwards apart from Riewoldt at the end of 2014. If you are suggesting we should have ignored that problem completely, then you really know absolutely nothing about a football team's list management.

School up on this and then get back to me. I am tried of hearing this ignorant crap.

+1

[desertsaint]

Do you know what you need when you have the number 1 pick.... the best player

Doesn't matter whether it's Alex Rance, Eddie Betts, Nick Riewoldt, Chad Winguard, Joel Selwood or whoever....

Only one of those was a pick 1.
Best player - on what criteria? There are a heck of a lot of boxes team tick off in the hunt for drat picks, not just one box that says 'best'.
You make it sound so easy - just get the best player. So only one club ever got it right. Don't you think the Saints picked the player they considered the best in the draft?

[BigMart]

Not sure it's rocket surgery?

And what I'm saying is, they picked the best key forward, not the best player... and they know that!

And it was clear Paddy had physical reservations, concerns, limitations.. but had some excellent attributes

Christian was the better performed player leading into the draft, with better physical capabilities , but not as strong a character

I think 8/10 people in the industry were on the Petracca train

Also,
Yeah, I realise none of the players weren't #1 picks
Point missed
I listed them because they all play different positions, and are the best players in the game... what sort of player is the best in the game?

171cm Eddy Betts
179cm Gary Ablett
187cm Paddy Dangerfield
192cm Marcus Bontempelli
199cm Tom Lynch
208cm Max Gawn

What position should a number 1 be??
A small defender - Corey Enright
A key defender - Alex Rance
An outside Wingman - Josh Kelly
A small forward - Cyril Rioli
A Key forward - Josh
A ruckman - Dean Cox
A Utility - Brandon Goddard
A small mid - Brent Harvey
A big mid - Scott Pendlebury

Point is, any of those players, positions would be worthy as Number 1... position doesn't matter... ability does
Any of those players are 9/10 players in their positions
Which is better than a lesser player in any other position

[desertsaint]

And i'm saying you don't know. it's very easy to pick great players in hindsight and say 'there's a number 1 pick!' Stats show clubs rarely get it right (too put it mildly), but supposedly they all take who they consider the best. Heck, going on last year, only one from that draft played a strong midfield role in a flag, and he went at pick 46. We don't know who will be better out of Petracca and McCartin and we don't know who will be more central to the success of his team. You also have this rather illogical belief a club should simply take the 'best' player regardless of position - when no one knows who the best is or will be. the difference between the top few is guesswork. This is proven year after year after year. Yet somehow you think it is an obvious call. So if collingwood get a top pick next year do you think they should get the mid who may be a tad better, maybe, who knows, than power forward who everyone thinks is one of the top two players in the draft.

[saintsRrising]

If we had Cheatwood and Danger in our midfield would we be top 4?

Is it that simple?

We'd certainly get more frees.

Yes it is that simple. Both are elite players. Importantly both are elite players in the engine room, and it is that midfield engine room that we are most deficient in.

While Selwood plays for frees, he is an elite player none the less. And do not forget that AFL/VFL has always been a game about what players can get away with just as much as what they are meant to be able to do. Every season you see players and or teams exploit a rule or rules in some manner. ie The Bulldogs mastered the flick pass, and Whitten named Melbourne coach Norm Smith and captain Ron Barassi as those who led opposition to the flick pass to have it banned. Harvey under Sheedy mastered the small push in the back before the rules were tightened up.

Wells is am amazing recruiter, but the Cats were blessed that Dangerfield wanted to return home and that Kardinia Park was was ideally suited for where he wanted to live.