Am i only the only one here who thinks our ruck stocks are fine people exaggerate the need for a quality ruckman IMO our ruckman are fine. After Round 11 last season we were ranked the 3rd side on form heck we beat the eagles at subiaco.
Gardiner = Number 1 Ruck if he can hold up injuries and get 10 poss and 20 hitouts a game
Rix = Backup Ruck/Number 1 Ruck People winge about Rix how he is lazy etc i think after playing in the VFL for a long time hes not used to the fast speed of AFL football getting numbers back and forwards seems like he doesnt have enough energy to get to every contest. His Disposal isnt too bad there are far worse /blake etc. Has big body and mediocre tap skills
Brooks = Under 18 AA Ruckman Potential hasnt delivered needs a solid preseason looks unfit and lazy. I think if he puts in the effort and the club and him work out his injury concerns then he can be a good player
Kosi/Blake = Kosi is a good ruckman but he is far more valuable elsewhere FF/CHF etc Hes also injury prone and the constant battering bodies in the ruck could hurt him alot. I think if he did go to FF though he would have no better a season then mooney did this year.
Blakes a Fill in GOP can play Defence ruck/onball/Negating Tagging roles. I still think he is a crap player and has put in more ordinary performances then great
Van Rheenan = Developing and looking promising ruckman Maybe earliest 2009 a few games but im hoping for a 2011+ solid contributer
Personally i think our ruck stocks are fine with 6 Ruckman 2 of which arent proper rucks in Kosi/Blake if we draft another ruckman in the PSD it will most likely be some used up player like Steven King while he is a good player like he showed on grand final day hes injury prone and we dont need another on the list. I think Ross Lyon will draft/trade for Steven King and will recruit a Ruckman in the National draft which will mean we have 8 RUCKMAN that is 20 percent of playing list not including rookies.
IF Kosi played Ruck next year there is no doubt in my mind he would be selected in the AA squad after a full pre season fitness and a full year injury free. He is a very mobile bigman and wasnt the rising star and a number 1 draft pick in his first year.
Time to Shine Saint Ruck Stocks show us what you got
(lots of typos and repeated sentences sorry but its late and i cant be assed reading through this s***)[/b]
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n1ck
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ST KILDA
General manager football development Tony Elshaug:
"It's a day to get a bit of an understanding about the requirements of each club. I think it's basically a lot of housekeeping and just making sure everyone is up to speed with who's on the list and who's off the list at this stage, what rookies have been promoted and what clubs are looking for."
On Lions ruckman Cameron Wood: "No [we won't be chasing him]. I think all the clubs are looking for ruckmen. I think if you've got one or two strong ruckmen at your club, you've got a better chance of being successful. That's been proven with [Brad] Ottens, [Brendon] Lade, [Steven] King and [Dean] Brogan. You need two strong ruckmen to win a premiership, so if you aren't looking down that road, you've got to have something else special going in your team. I think everyone is looking for that sort of player if they can, but they might not be there."
On Steven King: "If someone mentions his name and talks to us about him, we'll take it on board and go back and have a talk about it. [We're not worried about King's age as] we took Matthew Clarke last year at 34 years old."
General manager football development Tony Elshaug:
"It's a day to get a bit of an understanding about the requirements of each club. I think it's basically a lot of housekeeping and just making sure everyone is up to speed with who's on the list and who's off the list at this stage, what rookies have been promoted and what clubs are looking for."
On Lions ruckman Cameron Wood: "No [we won't be chasing him]. I think all the clubs are looking for ruckmen. I think if you've got one or two strong ruckmen at your club, you've got a better chance of being successful. That's been proven with [Brad] Ottens, [Brendon] Lade, [Steven] King and [Dean] Brogan. You need two strong ruckmen to win a premiership, so if you aren't looking down that road, you've got to have something else special going in your team. I think everyone is looking for that sort of player if they can, but they might not be there."
On Steven King: "If someone mentions his name and talks to us about him, we'll take it on board and go back and have a talk about it. [We're not worried about King's age as] we took Matthew Clarke last year at 34 years old."
Last edited by n1ck on Tue 09 Oct 2007 12:49am, edited 1 time in total.
Brooks will never make it.
Rix has poor disposal which doesn't matter that much as a ruckman but he doesn't win enough of the taps or make his opponent accountable.
Kosi isn't a great ruckman, he's a quality forward midfielder who can compete in the ruck, the type of bloke you'd want as a second or third ruckman to pinch hit from the forward line
We're putting too much faith in Gardiner, it's hard to expect much from a bloke who has spent over a year out of football (i'd be glad if he proves me wrong).
Blake does an ok pinch hitting in the ruck but he doesn't have enough impact anywhere else on the ground.
I don't know anything about VR.
In my opinion we've lacked a quality ruckman since Everitt and the kind we have now aren't good enough to win us a flag, you do need a quality bloke in the ruck like Cox, Ottens, Ball, Keating (in his prime) and Lade (ignoring 2 weeks ago) first use of the ball in the greatest game of all can be the difference.
Rix has poor disposal which doesn't matter that much as a ruckman but he doesn't win enough of the taps or make his opponent accountable.
Kosi isn't a great ruckman, he's a quality forward midfielder who can compete in the ruck, the type of bloke you'd want as a second or third ruckman to pinch hit from the forward line
We're putting too much faith in Gardiner, it's hard to expect much from a bloke who has spent over a year out of football (i'd be glad if he proves me wrong).
Blake does an ok pinch hitting in the ruck but he doesn't have enough impact anywhere else on the ground.
I don't know anything about VR.
In my opinion we've lacked a quality ruckman since Everitt and the kind we have now aren't good enough to win us a flag, you do need a quality bloke in the ruck like Cox, Ottens, Ball, Keating (in his prime) and Lade (ignoring 2 weeks ago) first use of the ball in the greatest game of all can be the difference.
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evertonfc
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Gardiner = Anything we get from him is a bonus. Consider him a write-off.
Kosi = Must play FF this year. Huge value for us there, but he's just an average ruckman.
Blake = Not a ruckman's backside. A VFL player who has to be commended for not getting injured and thus plays a lot of games. Is more durable than mould on a bathroom sink, which is a credit to him. About as pretty as that too.
Rix = Let's face it, he's just not up to it.
Brooks = He'll get another year thanks to his good VFL form, but has shown nothing at AFL level to suggest he'll make it.
Van Rheenan = Too green, but one of the future.
=
Realistically, we need to get a ruckman in this trading period if we want to win a premiership. Michael Gardiner cannot be relied upon to deliver; Kosi is a forward - leaving us with players who are VFL standard ruckmen.
We've got to get one. To suggest we don't is foolish. End of.
Kosi = Must play FF this year. Huge value for us there, but he's just an average ruckman.
Blake = Not a ruckman's backside. A VFL player who has to be commended for not getting injured and thus plays a lot of games. Is more durable than mould on a bathroom sink, which is a credit to him. About as pretty as that too.
Rix = Let's face it, he's just not up to it.
Brooks = He'll get another year thanks to his good VFL form, but has shown nothing at AFL level to suggest he'll make it.
Van Rheenan = Too green, but one of the future.
=
Realistically, we need to get a ruckman in this trading period if we want to win a premiership. Michael Gardiner cannot be relied upon to deliver; Kosi is a forward - leaving us with players who are VFL standard ruckmen.
We've got to get one. To suggest we don't is foolish. End of.
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
There's just too many ifs and buts about our entire ruck list.
Gardiner - Could be great IF he can get his body right
Kosi - Ruckman who's good around the ground BUT not great and far better value in our forward line
Blake - A battler BUT too short
Rix - He tries, BUT he's not great. Will never be a first string ruckman
Brooks - Has the potential BUT still has yet to come close to delivering
Van Rheenan - Too young, too green, too inexperienced, IF we handle his development right could one day be a great ruckman. BUT it's way too soon to promote him
We need another ruck to develop for the future, and this year's a good year for rucks so we might as well get him now. We also need a first string ruckman, someone for the above to support because the only one currently capable of that role has major injury and fitness questions around him.
Gardiner - Could be great IF he can get his body right
Kosi - Ruckman who's good around the ground BUT not great and far better value in our forward line
Blake - A battler BUT too short
Rix - He tries, BUT he's not great. Will never be a first string ruckman
Brooks - Has the potential BUT still has yet to come close to delivering
Van Rheenan - Too young, too green, too inexperienced, IF we handle his development right could one day be a great ruckman. BUT it's way too soon to promote him
We need another ruck to develop for the future, and this year's a good year for rucks so we might as well get him now. We also need a first string ruckman, someone for the above to support because the only one currently capable of that role has major injury and fitness questions around him.
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bigcarl
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Someones listening to you, AOK.aussierules0k wrote: Blake (cats) would be a very good get, cos he's got something to prove, he knows the heartache footy can bring.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/s ... 23230.html
"ST KILDA moved straight to the heart of a heated market for ruckmen yesterday by offering a three-year contract to Geelong's Mark Blake that, financially, is likely to be beyond the premiers to match.
Blake is yet to decide if he will leave behind the disappointment of his 11th-hour omission from the premiership team for a new start but the Saints signalled their intention yesterday to make that decision easier rather than harder with their offer, which is understood to be in excess of $800,000 over the three years."
Click the link for the rest of the story.
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bigcarl
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IN-DEMAND ruckman Mark Blake looks certain to stay at Geelong despite claims by his dad he carries "underlying disappointment" over his Grand Final axing.
Rod Blake said last night his son's axing after the Round 18 game against Richmond had also left a mental scar.
"There was six weeks of whether it was going to be Mark Blake or Steven King for the Grand Final," Blake said.
"Day after day, front and back page . . . how could he sleep at night?
"He was an emotional nightmare of six weeks."
Blake Sr, a former Cats ruckman and 1980 best-and-fairest winner, spoke to his son last night and later told the Herald Sun he didn't know if Mark would ask to be traded.
"I seriously don't know what he'll do," he said.
"I think Geelong has handled him exceptionally poorly and it goes back before the Grand Final, for God's sake.
"I would understand if he left and I'll tell you why I understand if he left: I think the Geelong Football Club failed him miserably and it concerns me they'll actually do it to somebody else."
He said he had offered his son advice.
"He's 22, a young man and he's capable of making his own decision," he said.
"All I said to him was I'd really be happy if you stayed at Geelong, but ultimately the decision's yours and you've got to make financial decisions as well as emotional decisions."
Blake will tell Geelong coach Mark Thompson his decision before boarding a flight to Bali today with his premiership teammates.
His teammates are adamant he'll stay, meaning he will reject more lucrative offers from St Kilda and Richmond, among others.
St Kilda's Tony Elshaug said yesterday the club was determined to snare a ruckman and hadn't ruled out Blake's teammate Steven King.
The Tigers will today speak to Blake's manager, Anthony McConville, and will try to convince Blake to nominate for the pre-season draft, where the Tigers have the No. 1 selection.
"We're interested in him, yes," Miller said last night.
"But I think they (the Cats) believe Blake will stay with them."
If Blake decides to stay at Geelong, Brisbane's Cameron Wood will become the most sought-after ruckman on the trade table.
Blake's father remains angry with the club.
He described watching the Grand Final and the celebrations at the final siren as an "emotional upheaval".
"At the final siren, everyone around me was jumping up and down. I wanted to jump up and down, but I had this great hole in my gut and I knew I had a son down there on the field who was going through the worst possible emotions," Blake said.
Asked if the Grand Final axing could affect his son's decision, Blake said: "Would you be human if it didn't?"
He said that against Richmond his son kicked two goals -- his first goals in the seniors -- had dominated the hitouts and was then rested the next week with "soreness".
"The (Geelong) crowd went absolutely nuts (against Richmond) and here we had a player on cloud nine and who was ready to step up to the next level," he said.
"That was going to propel him and what do they do? They drop him.
"They said they would rest him and play King.
"He was so disappointed. He couldn't understand it.
"And they rested him the following week.
"Why? Ask Geelong that. Why?"
Rod Blake said last night his son's axing after the Round 18 game against Richmond had also left a mental scar.
"There was six weeks of whether it was going to be Mark Blake or Steven King for the Grand Final," Blake said.
"Day after day, front and back page . . . how could he sleep at night?
"He was an emotional nightmare of six weeks."
Blake Sr, a former Cats ruckman and 1980 best-and-fairest winner, spoke to his son last night and later told the Herald Sun he didn't know if Mark would ask to be traded.
"I seriously don't know what he'll do," he said.
"I think Geelong has handled him exceptionally poorly and it goes back before the Grand Final, for God's sake.
"I would understand if he left and I'll tell you why I understand if he left: I think the Geelong Football Club failed him miserably and it concerns me they'll actually do it to somebody else."
He said he had offered his son advice.
"He's 22, a young man and he's capable of making his own decision," he said.
"All I said to him was I'd really be happy if you stayed at Geelong, but ultimately the decision's yours and you've got to make financial decisions as well as emotional decisions."
Blake will tell Geelong coach Mark Thompson his decision before boarding a flight to Bali today with his premiership teammates.
His teammates are adamant he'll stay, meaning he will reject more lucrative offers from St Kilda and Richmond, among others.
St Kilda's Tony Elshaug said yesterday the club was determined to snare a ruckman and hadn't ruled out Blake's teammate Steven King.
The Tigers will today speak to Blake's manager, Anthony McConville, and will try to convince Blake to nominate for the pre-season draft, where the Tigers have the No. 1 selection.
"We're interested in him, yes," Miller said last night.
"But I think they (the Cats) believe Blake will stay with them."
If Blake decides to stay at Geelong, Brisbane's Cameron Wood will become the most sought-after ruckman on the trade table.
Blake's father remains angry with the club.
He described watching the Grand Final and the celebrations at the final siren as an "emotional upheaval".
"At the final siren, everyone around me was jumping up and down. I wanted to jump up and down, but I had this great hole in my gut and I knew I had a son down there on the field who was going through the worst possible emotions," Blake said.
Asked if the Grand Final axing could affect his son's decision, Blake said: "Would you be human if it didn't?"
He said that against Richmond his son kicked two goals -- his first goals in the seniors -- had dominated the hitouts and was then rested the next week with "soreness".
"The (Geelong) crowd went absolutely nuts (against Richmond) and here we had a player on cloud nine and who was ready to step up to the next level," he said.
"That was going to propel him and what do they do? They drop him.
"They said they would rest him and play King.
"He was so disappointed. He couldn't understand it.
"And they rested him the following week.
"Why? Ask Geelong that. Why?"
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Brian Collis
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Best hit-outs to advantage in the league (average 14 per game). Surely our on-ballers would benefit from that. He is only 22, he should be our first choice. For a pick in the 20s (i.e. 2nd round), he would be a steal.Brian Collis wrote:Blake is a flake. A skilless ruckman. Better to develop Van Reehnan
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borderbarry
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Even if we trade for a ruckman we should still draft one to develop, even if in the rookie draft. Apparently the Saints have their eye on one of the lesser known ruckmen in the draft, could be Stefan Martin. In any case I would not be disappointed if we did no trading at all. We have not had a lot of success with our players gained by trade, apart from the one year when Blight was the attraction.
Hmmm I hardly think that 2 goals and loads of hit outs agin the all-conquering Tiggers is worthy of a line ini the CV really.He said that against Richmond his son kicked two goals -- his first goals in the seniors -- had dominated the hitouts and was then rested the next week with "soreness".
"The (Geelong) crowd went absolutely nuts (against Richmond) and here we had a player on cloud nine and who was ready to step up to the next level," he said.
Yes Blake interests me, but NOT for Pick 9...or $800,000. If the Pies had got over the line that Fri night again Gelong when Blake was ordinary, he'd not be going anywhere. The emotion of him being left out of the side, plus the fact that its GEELONG, is inflating his worth IMHO
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Saint 58
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I fully agree - Blake is not worth it, if we are going for a ruckman, we should be going for Wood.saint66au wrote:Hmmm I hardly think that 2 goals and loads of hit outs agin the all-conquering Tiggers is worthy of a line ini the CV really.
Yes Blake interests me, but NOT for Pick 9...or $800,000. If the Pies had got over the line that Fri night again Gelong when Blake was ordinary, he'd not be going anywhere. The emotion of him being left out of the side, plus the fact that its GEELONG, is inflating his worth IMHO
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saintsRrising
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Blake is ahandy SECOND ruckman in your team...
He is not good enough to a good number one....
Gardiner IF fit would be clearly better...
Rix and Brooks are not as good.
Kosi is a better player...but Blake at present would be better than Kosi in pure ruckwork.
IDEALLY you want two ruckman in your team...with Kosi freed up to play mainly as a key forward.
So at PRESENT we have an UNKOWN with gardiner due to his feet....and Brooks and Rix who are not delivering at the level that you want.
Rix I think will only ever be a handy back up....
Brooks...who knows...but what we do know is that he has had quitea few years to deliver post knee and has not.
So our current status is that RL would prefer to have TWO capable ruckmen...and at present he does not know if he has ONE...let alone two (though if there is a good medical report on Gardiner he may feel he has one).
He is not good enough to a good number one....
Gardiner IF fit would be clearly better...
Rix and Brooks are not as good.
Kosi is a better player...but Blake at present would be better than Kosi in pure ruckwork.
IDEALLY you want two ruckman in your team...with Kosi freed up to play mainly as a key forward.
So at PRESENT we have an UNKOWN with gardiner due to his feet....and Brooks and Rix who are not delivering at the level that you want.
Rix I think will only ever be a handy back up....
Brooks...who knows...but what we do know is that he has had quitea few years to deliver post knee and has not.
So our current status is that RL would prefer to have TWO capable ruckmen...and at present he does not know if he has ONE...let alone two (though if there is a good medical report on Gardiner he may feel he has one).
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st_Trav_ofWA
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lets face it WC aint gunna get rid of Cox port wont get rid of Brogan & Lade ect ect ruckmen are the most wanted in the AFL Blakes only 22 thats a big upside as he still has a lot of room to learn the trade much much much better option then the Matt Clarke waste of time as would the king trade be a waste of time .
ppl say blakes not a real good ruckman at geelong but lets put it in comparison to what we have
Blake > gardi who may never play
Blake > Rix who at best is a back up VFL ruck
Blake > Blake (our current one )
Blake > > > > Brooks who everyone bangs on how hes only younge and hes going to get better well blakes younger and already better
ppl say blakes not a real good ruckman at geelong but lets put it in comparison to what we have
Blake > gardi who may never play
Blake > Rix who at best is a back up VFL ruck
Blake > Blake (our current one )
Blake > > > > Brooks who everyone bangs on how hes only younge and hes going to get better well blakes younger and already better
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evertonfc
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St Trav, I know I've had a go at Blake, but I'd still take him if the price was right and we didn't have to give up too much to get him. The contract offer being mooted is well over-inflated.
Reminds me of how Jade Rawlings' value sky-rocketed over one good season, and the Dogs ended up shelling out draft picks and high wages for a player with significant question marks.
Reminds me of how Jade Rawlings' value sky-rocketed over one good season, and the Dogs ended up shelling out draft picks and high wages for a player with significant question marks.
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st_Trav_ofWA
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i dont think that that contract offer that is being bandied around is the real offer its just a ploy to get geelong to the trade tableevertonfc wrote:St Trav, I know I've had a go at Blake, but I'd still take him if the price was right and we didn't have to give up too much to get him. The contract offer being mooted is well over-inflated.
Reminds me of how Jade Rawlings' value sky-rocketed over one good season, and the Dogs ended up shelling out draft picks and high wages for a player with significant question marks.
think geelong dont want blake to go there is question on if blake wants to go and the saints come out through the media with a huge contract geelong will be scared into looking at a trade or risk losing blake for nothing in the PSD
all those $$ dont mean anything its all just wheeling and dealing
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bigcarl
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the gt ruck myth continues. what he said was he didn't rate ordinary ruckmen ... well neither do i.The Saints are in a crowded field vying for a ruckman, but they need to be — the club has had trouble filling the role since the lack of faith in ruckmen displayed by former coach Grant Thomas in the first half of the decade, the retirement of Matthew Clarke, the doubts about Michael Gardiner's ability to return to the game and the failure of Barry Brooks.
for mine they need to be able to do a lot more than just win a few tapouts, otherwise they become a waste of space around the ground.
unfortunately, really good ones - who can win tapouts and dominate in general play - are rare ... probably because they take so long to develop.
saint66au wrote:Hmmm I hardly think that 2 goals and loads of hit outs agin the all-conquering Tiggers is worthy of a line ini the CV really.He said that against Richmond his son kicked two goals -- his first goals in the seniors -- had dominated the hitouts and was then rested the next week with "soreness".
"The (Geelong) crowd went absolutely nuts (against Richmond) and here we had a player on cloud nine and who was ready to step up to the next level," he said.
Yes Blake interests me, but NOT for Pick 9...or $800,000. If the Pies had got over the line that Fri night again Gelong when Blake was ordinary, he'd not be going anywhere. The emotion of him being left out of the side, plus the fact that its GEELONG, is inflating his worth IMHO
....in total agreement!