bulking up.....

[stinger]

saw an article in the papers on sunday about how the cats spent a hell of a lot more time doing weight s over the summer.......bulked up so that they had the strength to last out games......


...we , on the other hand concentrated on long distance running...and endurance work...the players actually fined down considerably...........who was right...and who was wrong.........if we are talking about finding that proof from a pudding......i guess we were wrong .....

[vacuous space]

It's never a bad idea to increase the aerobic capacity of your midfield. Even if the focus was on wieghts, the Cats were clearly better able to run out games this year than in 06. Ablett and Bartel in particular played at a consistently high level which they never had before.

The gameplan was better and the players were fitter. That went a long way to winning the Cats their first flag in 44 years. OTOH, we had a bunch of guys rehabbing all the way through pre-season, including some of our most important players.

[Behind Play]

Just have to look at both the West Coast in the 90's and the Brisbane Lions during their hay days. Both teams were huge........maybe there is some merit in bulking up.

Why can Johnathan Brown, win games on his own boot ..........is it his size?

[True Blue Sainter]

Good point stinger, and well backed up by vacuous and BP...

Weights increases anaerobic capacity - which essentially is large amounts of power in short bursts. How many times did we see Ablett & even Bartel, Corey, Kelly & Chapman etc. all use strength and power to bust through a tackle and set up an attacking play?

[plugger66]

Good point stinger, and well backed up by vacuous and BP...

Weights increases anaerobic capacity - which essentially is large amounts of power in short bursts. How many times did we see Ablett & even Bartel, Corey, Kelly & Chapman etc. all use strength and power to bust through a tackle and set up an attacking play?

The Roos did the opposite with most losing weight and doing a huge amount of running. It didnt hurt them as they were probably the biggest surprise of the year. What that says to me is it doesnt matter which way a club goes the best side for the season will win unless they get a lot of injuries.

[Oh When the Saints]

Yep.

Kangaroos did the absolute complete opposite, and that was to lose 5kg and do an enormous amount of running.

To be able to make the short sprints and second efforts in the last quarter of a game, you need the aerobic endurance.


Brendon Goddard is a classic example. Does anyone remember all the talk about him bulking up before the 2005 season?

He didn't have a great year.

Then he lost a few kilos before '06 and was a much better player.


You need to bulk up ... but your speed endurance is more important IMO.

[saint patrick]

Good post Stinger...sure Misson will have the balance all under control as Sydney certainly had the right mix in 05...Strength important but must be side by side with an anaerobic base[the power factor ]


Would love to see the guys run out in the preseason looking like mobile granite pieces and ready to rubble

[crowjelly]

saw an article in the papers on sunday about how the cats spent a hell of a lot more time doing weight s over the summer.
if we are talking about finding that proof from a pudding......i guess we were wrong .....

The proof is not in the pudding, it's in the eating!
Not sure this is appropriate when your talking about the 'pussies' Stinger.

[GrumpyOne]

With respect Sting old mate, I don't think you can point the finger at just one factor as being the difference between the Cats and us.

As well as bulking up, you can add a dream run with injuries, increased professionalism due to Balmey's arrival, Bomber concentrating on coaching instead of players wives, Ablett committing himself to football, previous intelligent draft selections, and the leadership group living up to their name.

Winning an AFL premiership is a little like playing the pokies; every wheel has to line up before you are paid the jackpot.

[Dan Warna]

winmar did the same thing a decade ago. remember the photos of him looking like apollo creed?

came back after loosing some of that muscle mass and was back to his best.

[saintsRrising]

winmar did the same thing a decade ago. remember the photos of him looking like apollo creed?

came back after loosing some of that muscle mass and was back to his best.

Gordon Fode is another example of a player that muscled up and went backwards..

and remember Rene Kink when he came to the Saints and ballooned...

[fonz_#15]

yeah bulking up is overreated and i am a perfect example...
beer consumption is killing me

[stinger]

saw an article in the papers on sunday about how the cats spent a hell of a lot more time doing weight s over the summer.
if we are talking about finding that proof from a pudding......i guess we were wrong .....

The proof is not in the pudding, it's in the eating!
Not sure this is appropriate when your talking about the 'pussies' Stinger.

i know that...pointed it out on another thread.......some pple like pussies.....

[stinger]

With respect Sting old mate, I don't think you can point the finger at just one factor as being the difference between the Cats and us.

As well as bulking up, you can add a dream run with injuries, increased professionalism due to Balmey's arrival, Bomber concentrating on coaching instead of players wives, Ablett committing himself to football, previous intelligent draft selections, and the leadership group living up to their name.

Winning an AFL premiership is a little like playing the pokies; every wheel has to line up before you are paid the jackpot.

yep...but the pussies were as hard as granite...blew the young port players away...and some of them were pretty quick......i still have vivid memories of us playing the nasty brians...men against boys....but i'm sure mission will get it right...which is a good thing, as i am convinced that we got it wrong......

[Dan Warna]

winmar did the same thing a decade ago. remember the photos of him looking like apollo creed?

came back after loosing some of that muscle mass and was back to his best.

Gordon Fode is another example of a player that muscled up and went backwards..

and remember Rene Kink when he came to the Saints and ballooned...

Fode looked massive, i think glen coghlan was a bit of a monster too after a good start.

[saintsRrising]

I am not sure what the Sunday article said....but I have just read this one from Monday..

Fitness duo lifted work rate
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 66,00.html
01 October 2007 Herald Sun
Rebecca Williams

GEELONG assistant coach Brenton Sanderson has lauded the role of club fitness gurus Paul Haines and Dean Robinson in the team's premiership success.



The Cats' fitness issues last season were well documented, culminating in the sacking of fitness adviser Loris Bertolacci.

Geelong raided the Adelaide Crows and the NRL for its new fitness team of Haines and Robinson.

Haines, who had worked with Neil Craig at the Crows for years, became strength and conditioning manager.

Robinson, from NRL club Manly, was put in charge of rehabilitation and strength.

Sanderson said the pair had been pivotal in the club's success.

"Those guys were probably instrumental in turning the club's fitness and conditioning around," Sanderson said.

"They played an enormous part. The boys had bigger, harder bodies this year and they just ran games out.

"Those guys pushed them hard in the pre-season and every player, if you went in there and asked them, would say it was the toughest summer they have had fitness wise and lifting wise.

"To win by such a big margin on that last day in September makes the guys happy that they did push themselves."

Sanderson said the key had been an ability to run games out.

"We were a fantastic last-quarter side," Sanderson said. "I wasn't at Geelong last year, but that (Round 10) West Coast game sticks in my mind when Geelong were 39 points up at three-quarter time and West Coast ran over them.

"They have been able to put the foot down more so in games this year and really put games away."

Sanderson also believed intensive individual coaching by Mark Thompson with players in the pre-season paid dividends.

"We spent a lot of time teaching, too. Bomber was great," Sanderson said.

"Bomber had a great summer, I thought, spending a lot of time individually with players.

"It was a real teaching summer.

"Guys who have had break-out years probably owe a lot to the work that Bomber and the other coaches did with them over the summer."

Sanderson said the attitude of the playing group also deserved credit after a bumpy start to the season.

"We were two wins and three losses after five rounds," Sanderson said.

"Full credit should go the playing group.

"The players were really hard on each other and they demanded excellence from each other."




From this article it would appear that the Cats trained for aerobic fitness as well as strength.


It also appears that a large part of the success is being attributed by the cats themselves to TEACHING...and we know that Bomber had been freed up to allow him to do this.

In previous years Bomber was effectively a part time head coach distracted by issues such as player contracts and welfare.

Last summer he was a 100% Football Coach.

I would also note that the years other big improvers, Port Adelaide, have had many reports attributing a large part of their improvent to William's ability as a teaching coach.




So yes the Cats were stronger, but they also had increased aerobic capacity.......and probably most importantly the players had been DEVELOPED by appropriate coaching...and importantly with adequate individual coaching.



And as we know there were other factors such as the motivation provided by Ray McLean.

[rodgerfox]

So yes the Cats were stronger, but they also had increased aerobic capacity.......and probably most importantly the players had been DEVELOPED by appropriate coaching...and importantly with adequate individual coaching.

My grandmother could have coached Geelong to the flag this year with full pre-seasons and no injuries.

The only difference may have been that they would have won by 10 goals instead of 20.

All this crap about teaching is garbage. I thought Williams was the great teacher anyway??

[CURLY]

So yes the Cats were stronger, but they also had increased aerobic capacity.......and probably most importantly the players had been DEVELOPED by appropriate coaching...and importantly with adequate individual coaching.

My grandmother could have coached Geelong to the flag this year with full pre-seasons and no injuries.

The only difference may have been that they would have won by 10 goals instead of 20.

All this crap about teaching is garbage. I thought Williams was the great teacher anyway??

Exactly Rodger imagine picking who you want for a year and not having to fill holes each week. By the way having two of your best three players as father sons helps to.

[rodgerfox]

So yes the Cats were stronger, but they also had increased aerobic capacity.......and probably most importantly the players had been DEVELOPED by appropriate coaching...and importantly with adequate individual coaching.

My grandmother could have coached Geelong to the flag this year with full pre-seasons and no injuries.

The only difference may have been that they would have won by 10 goals instead of 20.

All this crap about teaching is garbage. I thought Williams was the great teacher anyway??

Exactly Rodger imagine picking who you want for a year and not having to fill holes each week. By the way having two of your best three players as father sons helps to.

As usual, people look at who wins then try to find the magic reason for it.

The problem is, it's the same reason every year.

[saintspremiers]

winmar did the same thing a decade ago. remember the photos of him looking like apollo creed?

came back after loosing some of that muscle mass and was back to his best.

Gordon Fode is another example of a player that muscled up and went backwards..

and remember Rene Kink when he came to the Saints and ballooned...

Fode looked massive, i think glen coghlan was a bit of a monster too after a good start.

Fodey would've been a legend in the A-League - shame for him soccer wasn't a good option back in the 80's early 90's - he had a soccer background and was an awesome round ball player as a school kid.

[rodgerfox]

winmar did the same thing a decade ago. remember the photos of him looking like apollo creed?

came back after loosing some of that muscle mass and was back to his best.

Gordon Fode is another example of a player that muscled up and went backwards..

and remember Rene Kink when he came to the Saints and ballooned...

Fode looked massive, i think glen coghlan was a bit of a monster too after a good start.

Fodey would've been a legend in the A-League - shame for him soccer wasn't a good option back in the 80's early 90's - he had a soccer background and was an awesome round ball player as a school kid.

Fodey wasn't massive.

Just had massive legs. The biggest legs I've seen. Was also a very good tennis player.

His bulk had nothing to do with him going backwards either. It was his attitude and fondness of beer.

Nice guy, but enjoyed the off-field more than the hard yards.

[saintsRrising]

Fodey wasn't massive.

.

Your memory is at fault....there was one Summer where Fode re-emerged a lot bigger than he was in the previous season.

[rodgerfox]

Fodey wasn't massive.

.

Your memory is at fault....there was one Summer where Fode re-emerged a lot bigger than he was in the previous season.

I know Fodey personally.

And no, my memory isn't at fault.

[saintsRrising]

As usual, people look at who wins then try to find the magic reason for it.

The problem is, it's the same reason every year.

As usual you fail to be specific and make general statements that are not true. You have no compunction in actively distorting what people have posted.

As in this case...where you are are actively distorting what I have said....and what other people have said....without actually giving any examples or quotes.

Please point out any magic reasons that I have posted on???

Please point out what I have said that is different??

I have not changed what I said.

I have stated that you need to get MOST things right....not all things...

Geelong has done most things right and furether addressed their definciences.

No team is perfect...and about Geelong only weakness is perhaps a bit of extra pace.

However they have:
* THREE guys that can playruck.....the Saints do not..indeed we might not even have one if Gardi is not fit

*A solid defence with a great FB....the Saints do WHEN Max is fit




*MANY forward options..small medium and tall...the Saints do not have any medium forwards

*More than amples guys to run thru the midfield...the Saints weree undermanned in numbers in 2007.


*Good depth with no poor players in their 22....the Saints bottom six is week


* A full time coach not distracted by non-core football issues...Both Geelong and the Saints did this last summer
As to Williams he has PA well in front of expectations....they never thought that they would get into the GF this year.

*addressed their fitness and conditioning side with the rebuild starting in MAY 2006 with the appointment of a new Club Doc fresh from two years as Head Coach fora Premier League Team in the UK.....and continuing on with the apointments mentioned earlier in the string.... The saints have muudled around and ONLY in mid season 2007 ayear after the cats have they started to get their act into gear and with the appointment of Misson they are on the right track.










A team has to doa lot more than get its players fit....fitness and conditioning is only one factor.



If the Ctas had not down the other things right then they would not have won the flag in 2007.

they needed Bomber to have the time to develop their players...and they needed the input of Ray McLean.


Fitness is important....but so are many other factors.

[saintsRrising]

Fodey wasn't massive.

.

Your memory is at fault....there was one Summer where Fode re-emerged a lot bigger than he was in the previous season.

I know Fodey personally.

And no, my memory isn't at fault.

Ask him then if there was one season where he built up then.