Butterss interviewed by KB on SEN 11;30 Tues

[To the top]

Now we have JC re-incarnated!

I recall a sign on the church at the top of The Parade at Norwood asking "What would you do if God came back tomorrow?"

To which some wag responded in equal size print "Move Carman to Full Forward". Must have been 1973 or 1974.

Lovely to come from the view point that you know absolutely you are right thought.

Mind you, one thing I was told as a child - and has proven correct - is that those things you originally have one opinion on, and then change your opinion by weight of the contrary debate, are the things you believe most passionately in there after.

A few weeks ago, I gave instruction to convert my superannaution accruals to cash options. This was given when the DJIA topped 14,000 points.

I gave contrary orders shortly thereafter, when the DJIA was at 12,600 points.

Did I KNOW I was doing the right thing?

No.

Do I know now that I did the right thing?

Well, everything is relative, so the jury is still out - despite the dollars and cents benefit the exercise has provided.

The DJIA may dive again - in which case I was wrong to issue my second instruction.

So do you describe me as Butterss is described - just some so and so who got lucky despite having no ability?

I wish it was that easy!

[n1ck]

Now we have JC re-incarnated!

I recall a sign on the church at the top of The Parade at Norwood asking "What would you do if God came back tomorrow?"

To which some wag responded in equal size print "Move Carman to Full Forward". Must have been 1973 or 1974.

Pretty sure that story is originally about Peter Hudson, on an old church sign on Glenferrie Road, Hawthorn.

[Oh When the Saints]

You're correct Joffa Burns ... that was a stupid comment. I apologise to RB for a bad throwaway line.

[Joffa Burns]

You're correct Joffa Burns ... that was a stupid comment. I apologise to RB for a bad throwaway line.

Just re-read my post, was a little harsh!
Have modified it.

Building a business of that size takes blood sweat and tears and plenty of ticker. To suggest it was luck can only conme from someone who hasn't experienced it.

It took me fifteen years to build my company from scratch to half that size turnover, he built a $50 million dollar turn over business and sold it, fair effort in any mans language.

[joffaboy]

If find this thread incredible.

Why hasn't a mod warned these posters who are vilifying Rod Butters.

The bias of the moderation by two mods on here is ludicrous.

You should not be mods. You attack an bully someone who has critisised the FFS but allow slurs and innuendo against Butters go unchallenged.

It is disgraceful.

How about a bit of fair moderation

About as much chance as a bit of respect for a President who has resided over the most prosperous financial times in the clubs history

[JeffDunne]

Thanks " To the Top" for the lesson on Corporate Finance and Management.
To be basic, can you answer the following questions for me,

lol, don't waste your time, he doesn't answer questions.

All you'll get is more self-indulgent clap trap.

[To the top]

OK, GSG.

For one, I am only mounting what I veiw is the common sense approach and in the face of some uneducated "opinion".

And I do that from my experience and knowedge.

Firstly you mention the word "allegedly".

What is the basis of your allegations, which I am certain, as a current recipient of the corporate hospitality at other clubs (when playing St Kilda or this Saturday courtesy of Port Adelaide) and a past recipient of such hospitality at St Kilda, would be refuted by the current Board.

Vodaphone are going to Carlton. I have recently tendered a major groups telecommunications requirements (for something to do to amuse myself)which came down to Vodaphone v. Telstra so I know how keen those Companys are for business - at any price!

Vodaphone, by going to Pratt's Carlton, get the Visy Board telecommunications business.

Perhaps Westaway could offer his telecommunications business to Vodaphone (a UK listed Company) on the basis they stay?

Bill Express, as I understand, was subject to a buy-out and a change in corporate direction. Was not there speculation that Fox had taken a position, was going to employ Thomas, and seek a position at the Board table to be represented by Thomas?

Boards do split. They vote. The majority wins. Fact of life. Do you disagree with your wife over the raising of the kids sometimes? And what is the outcome?

Personnel come and they go - particularly in unstable organisations such as football clubs. How many, and in recent times, have moved from one club to another (eg Collingwood to Carlton and Waldron to Melbourne Storm). The movements are numerous and a part of the industry.

Thomas has the right of any employee (or employees did have!) to claim accrued entitlements - including AL and LSL, which is what Thomas is doing. In Corporate Australia your employee contracting business is a $2- Company you can fold - avoiding any penalty. St Kilda FC should have enganed in such a corporate structure.

Will Thomas win? What of the issue of costs? And can Thomas meet the costs if the judgement and orders are against him? If you have nothing it is far easier to persue such claims - obviously, because no decision at Court can be pre-empted. Read into that what you will, but what does Thomas actually have to his name given there has been a resolution in regards his loan from Butterss for his house? Related counter claim? Have to ask Thomas, but this is a tactic which is employed, no matter the substance of the counter claim. Vexacious litigant? Maybe.

We have seen expenditure on the re-surfacing of Moorabbin - and no doubt other expenditure.

In the normal course, the AGM is where the manifesto for the ensuing year is canvassed - and questions without notice can be asked of the Board.

Like why did the players have to go overseas to training camps?

I think there was one other question you raised, but I have forgotten it!

Anyway, gives you some background.

[kaos theory]

Overtrading, Kaos and others

That is, overtrading on your capital base. In other words you are overly reliant on external creditors and you are at risk from market movements which impact on your business model and interest cover covenants. Simply, you do not actually own enough of the savaloy and as soon as there is pressure from revenue reductions or cost over-runs, the creditors move in to protect their interests.

So, how does St Kilda grow its revenue?

To the $30 Million to $35 Million canvassed?

Double its 30,000 membership?

Obtain sponsorship arrangements with major sponsors, who are going to kick in an extra $10 Million or so a year?

Well, do not kid yourself that business conditions in Australia are so bouyant that such expenditure can be contemplated - even by our major international companies.

TTT - My point is simple:

Over the last 4 years we have figured in the top 5 to 6 clubs in terms of membership, finals appearances, TV ratings, game attendances, supporter base potential. I would also say we are one of the more attractive clubs in terms of brand due to our colours, and star players....Yet our reveune sits at the bottom AND RB has NOT made any clear statement or presented any vision or objective about trying to raise that revenue.... GW board have at least said they will focus on that.

We need to have a longer term vision of what we want to achieve with this club. Other big clubs have it....we should be aiming for that too....

My biggest concern with RB is that lately he seems to have given up any focus on improving our growth...Has he and his team run out of ideas & ability?...Have the staff lost their ability, or are they so disolusioned and understaffed from short-sighted cost-cutting that they don't have the resources to do any better?

[To the top]

Arrest the membership slump?

Well, no doubt the disappointing 2006 performance impacted as did the 2007 start and as has general economic circumstances, with pressure on household budgets.

These are NOT halycyon economic times for the greater majority of Australian families, who are struggling to make ends meet.

Plus we have 1.8 Million either unemployed (and given up looking) or under-employed.

Houses may be worth more, but that only means higher Council Rates and higher Insurance Premiums. Then there are the raft of other costs.

An analysis of the "capture region" for St Kilda FC membership would be of interest in terms of the socio-economic circumstance of such region/s.

Of interest also would be movements as a comparative against other clubs.

As a broad brush comment, maintaining over 30,000 members would not seem a bad result in the overall circumstances.

The current circumstance may well impact negatively though, because not all of the 30,000 members contribute to this site - and St Kilda is again under question as to its self destroying capabilities.

In regards JD, ask the question of the Board at the AGM.

That is the only response I can give you, and have given you.

One factor is that handouts favour the rich because, for the rich, it represents discretionary spending capacity. For those not so well off it is deployed to meeting recurring operational costs.

Bit like tax cuts which give $4.50 a week to those on $35,000 PA but $150- per week to those on $120,000- a year.

So, if you can survive, why give a free kick to the well off who are only going to up the ante against your interests?

Was this the reason?

I do not know.

But I would be looking at competative advantage and sometimes maintaining the status quo is what you look to achieve so you are not left further behind.

[To the top]

Kaos, would you like to expand on "other big clubs"?

Can you list each club and give your analysis of if it is "big" and then why it is seen as "big"?

Then I will debate you, too!

Because I think you are on a belting to nothing.

If I have a mate who is worth $100 Million (Net of course) including old family money, but I am worth $50 Million (Net of course) and with pensioner parents, who is "big" and why?

Or maybe I should ask who is "biggest"?

You can also detail benefactors and the worth of those benefactors, including the "hangers onners" they attract for one reason or another.

Look forward to your response!

Be quick though because I am hoping my ortho gives me the all clear to get myself mobile again in a couple of days.

The pain of being a smart arse with a vintage sports car which is manual - and having their leg in plaster for 16 weeks!

Legs in plaster and having manual cars do not go together.

Then there is the crutches.

But, hopefully, on Saturday, I will be able to walk into lunch on my own two legs.

And life starts again.

[saintspremiers]

Do you disagree with your wife over the raising of the kids sometimes? And what is the outcome?

Yes. She wins. Always!

P.S. What uni do you lecture at?

[ausfatcat]

with the agm set for nov 26 and all positions spilled does this mean the proxies are invalid as there will not actually be any directors??

[mischa]

with the agm set for nov 26 and all positions spilled does this mean the proxies are invalid as there will not actually be any directors??

Yep most likely. That's what the scumbag(s) want. We are utterly irrelevant in the scheme of things.

[To the top]

Don't worry Saintspremiers, so does mine!

Occupational hazard!!

Thought I could win one the other night because after enduring the comments about my complaining of crutches at the footy, "so don't go to the footy" (as if!), made the supreme sacrifice and cabbed it to Phantom, dinner, front stalls, afters, offered hotel accomodation for the night but home instead - and still I am copping barbs about going to the footy this weekend.

"Can you drive me to the station please, sweetheart?"

Beg, grovel.

If the plaster does not come off I am in big trouble.

Do some lecturing work actually, but not over the past 4 months.

Will return to it in 2008.


With all Board positions spilled at the AGM it should be interesting.

I do not know what the Articles of Association say in regards the constitution of the board and, indeed, appointments to the Board and the voting status of those appointed.

But, if Butterss and members of the current Board do get up, what do those here who have pinned their sails to the mast and said what they have said, do then?

They fail to realise consequence, and eating humble pie is never a pleasant experience.

That is why so much time is spent on Win/Win solutions.

If you want to take everything off the plate for yourself, well you are usually disappointed.

So you negotiate.

And you retain civility and respect.

[kaos theory]

TTT - Hope your leg is free to to allow you to heel-toe your gear changes through a windy road in your sports car soon....though some of those vintage sports aren't too agreeable to rapid gear changing...

1. Nice of you to ignore my main point...re: our reveune position relative to other performance indicators, and other comparable clubs...

2. Other big clubs...hmmm, take the Pies & the Dons...They have stated on a number of occasions how they are trying to explore & develop avenues to grow their club's revenues. I know they are bigger clubs than us, and have some distinct advantages, but we also have distinct advantages over at least 8 other clubs....

3. Also, you ignore my point on board ability & coehsiveness. Tell me how does the talent of the remaining board members loyal to RB stack up against the challengers...not too good are they? As I'm sure you are aware, managing & building a company takes talented teams, with ability to guide & support the management & staff. Compare the 2 see what you think....

so much for the hiding to nothing

(PS...I'm fully aware of the concept of profit from revenues, so no need to re-hash old ground...Also, I'm fully aware that clubs don't return profit to shareholders as dividens...)

[To the top]

Kaos, revenue relative to other clubs?

Well, certain clubs including Richmond, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Carlton and the Western Bulldogs rely on handouts from the AFL to make ends meet - and to survive.

Hawthorn play games interstate to survive (as DID St Kilda).

Some of these clubs will be re-located inter-state by AFL direction - and they have no come back because without the AFL subsidising them, they will not survive.

Are St Kilda in that position?

And there may well be an attempt at purchasing another AFL Licence out of Adelaide, based at Adelaide Oval by an existing, cashed up, SANFL Club. So who will the target club be?

Geelong had half their debt to Westpac written off to survive, and re-financed the remainder debt to Bendigo Bank whose sponsorship is probably in kind (for taking them on so they did not fold).

So what constitutes revenue?

And we will not compete with the Collingwoods (who operate hotels and have equity in the purchase of those businesses courtesy of their benefactors) or Essendon (who own their recreational centre and who had problems with the ATO) or the Pratt led Carlton (which has stands at Princes Park valued at nothing - and are technically bankrupt).

As I have said, when you get invited to Presidents lunches at those clubs, which we do when they play St Kilda, you can smell the difference - and spot the hangers onners!

Your comments on the talent of the respective Boards are personal opinion.

And another thing, the distributions received by SANFL clubs reflect the great majority of these distributions come from Adelaide FC - and I am unaware if this is because Port Adelaide are still paying off their licence fee or if they are so relatively weak against Adelaide FC.

Port Adelaide have a specific, defined market, and the rest of the population support Adelaide which is why there is scope for a 3rd licence in Adelaide.

[saintbrat]

thank you for the insights To the top
I am sure you can understand that a fair percetge of supporters will NEVER get the opportunity to mix in such functions
to many of us there is little display of such networking ,some of this lack of promotion is one of the concerns
and then to see that networking translate to extra funds and exposure.
to see other clubs doing- 'Events'- that bring supporters, moneys and exposure for the club and no real evidence of this at the saints- Ie Essendon appear to do this well.

re

And we will not compete with the Collingwoods (who operate hotels and have equity in the purchase of those businesses courtesy of their benefactors) or Essendon (who own their recreational centre and who had problems with the ATO) or the Pratt led Carlton (which has stands at Princes Park valued at nothing - and are technically bankrupt).

Carlton now have access to the profits from 9? atleast Hotels across the state through the generosity of benfactors + Pratt.

[GeorgeYoung27]

As I have said, when you get invited to Presidents lunches at those clubs, which we do when they play St Kilda, you can smell the difference - and spot the hangers onners!

Let the cat out of the bag mate. Almost identified yourself.

[To the top]

George Young, you jump to conclusions - and those who jump to conclusions are normally wrong.

Don't worry mate, I pay my way.

What comes around goes around.

You give and you get.

But you do see the likes of Cooper, and they do stick out like the proverbial.

Those who are there to be seen instead of there for a day out at the footy with their mates.

The question asked is "And what do you do?"

"Actually, nothing"

Always fun to watch the reaction!

Because you are measured by what you do and for whom.

So we play our games.

[To the top]

Saintbrat, one of the tangibles we do now see is that we no longer have to journey to Tasmania twice a season to watch the Saints.

We did that for revenue.

Well, actually, it added 2 more interstate trips and nights away to our season's travels - although we put in a weeks fishing in the north-west of WA and in Queensland.

But in Tassie, there is only Wrest Point.

Melbourne sell a game to Brisbane for revenue, Hawthorn plays games in Tasmania for revenue, Western Bulldogs play games in the NT for revenue, North Melbourne play games in Canberra for revenue.

St Kilda DID play games in Tasmania.

I see Butterss, and Fox and others, associating with whom they associate with.

I do not know who the guests at St Kilda's President's Lunches include these days, because we have not been for many years, initially because of the Medallion Club and now we just sit in the AFL section.

But I would believe the functions are full, so people will be meeting people.

It is just that the older you get, the more cynical you seem to become (yes, we acknowledge we do not have the patience we once had - depending on mood of course but we still like to think we can chat when the mood or the atttraction takes us) and we now stick to the company of mates.

Dow futures are paring their losses 30 minutes before the bell!

[Bernard Shakey]

Wanker!

[GeorgeYoung27]

Wanker!

see he did identify himself.