Hamill, Voss & Sweeney all gone...Now who??

[st_Trav_ofWA]

some points on the CJ brooks comparison

firstly CJ was a rookie selection cost us nothing in regard to draft picks
where brooks was a trade for a first round pick

secondly CJ although has had a fairly poor start showed signs of being able to make it
brooks 5 years shown nothing

thirdly CJ put in an honest effort he chased he tackled he defended
brooks again looked half asleep in the wrong spot and showed no desire to play

CJ may turn out to be a dud but heck he wont die wondering when i spoke to him at the Perth function he indicated that theres a huge learning curb from the WAFL to AFL but hes learning heaps and hes prepared to give it everything to make the team he desperatly want to make it as an AFL player

so yes compaired to CJ brooks is atrocious.

[Dan Warna]

brooks has been among the best for the scorps 7 out of the last 11 or so games.

similarly mcintosh did nothing at north for 4 seasons playing 13 games in 4 years for about 13 possessions all up before 07.

again maybe it is too late for brooks, but even our departed scorps coach complimented brooks for his ruckwork during the season.

[Solar]

brooks has been among the best for the scorps 7 out of the last 11 or so games.

similarly mcintosh did nothing at north for 4 seasons playing 13 games in 4 years for about 13 possessions all up before 07.

again maybe it is too late for brooks, but even our departed scorps coach complimented brooks for his ruckwork during the season.

agreed dan.

Strange thing is that those who bag brooks have either not seen him play this year or not relised that tall ruckman don't grow on trees.

Have said this before but right now our ruck stocks include
kosi
gards
rix

brooks
blake
VR

You delist brooks and you have thrown away years of development time to get a kid with what, pick 73? Brooks gives us a forward option plus the possiblity of rucking duties. As dan said, it take ruckman a lot longer to develop. Heck look at rix, what age did he start looking like something in the VFL.

Brooks has all the tools, just needs to be given a chance.

Oh and those tools that say they will not attend games if he is selected need to go get a god damn football education and in general get a clue.

Please, with a straight face tell me that rix or blake should be an ongoing fixture in the ruck!


Anyway on the actual topic

I would suggest that a forward line of

BJ Roo Allen
Milne Watts X

I would like to see both geary and howard developed on the HBF as a replacement for gram (both played very well in this position for casey). Move gram in to the middle and groom armo for a midfield role (tell him to run with harvey the whole pre-season, that should knock him into shape.

We might not win the flag but we will have a better influx of young talent next year. I can't wait!

[st_Trav_ofWA]

agreed dan.

Strange thing is that those who bag brooks have either not seen him play this year or not relised that tall ruckman don't grow on trees.

Have said this before but right now our ruck stocks include
kosi
gards
rix

brooks
blake
VR

You delist brooks and you have thrown away years of development time to get a kid with what, pick 73? Brooks gives us a forward option plus the possiblity of rucking duties. As dan said, it take ruckman a lot longer to develop. Heck look at rix, what age did he start looking like something in the VFL.

Brooks has all the tools, just needs to be given a chance.

Oh and those tools that say they will not attend games if he is selected need to go get a god damn football education and in general get a clue.

Please, with a straight face tell me that rix or blake should be an ongoing fixture in the ruck!

you would think that with the crap rucks we have had and the injurys to the key rucks and the fack Rix isnt a great ruckman maybe just maybe that brooks would of been used in the ruck but he wasnt why do you think that was ?? the coach didnt like him ? whoops i mean both coaches ? or maybe Mr Brooks isnt cut out for the big boys and RL and GT both know that hence why they dindt play him ?

also on him being best in 7 of the last 11 VFL games that doesnt mean he can cope as an AFL player remember CJ came third in the best and fairest in the WAFL that the best out of the comp not just in the bests of the team

brooks is a good VFL player
not and AFL player

[fonz_#15]

i have had numerous brooks arguments with posters in the past so will not go any further than this post, however in rebuttal to you solar..

i have seen brooks play many times, both in his few afl games where he has done nothing (ohh hang on i forgot that dominant display against the lions who were a rabble, and he had a 3rd or 4th best tall).

also you say brooks has the tools, he has just not been given the chance.. do you think there isnt a reason for this????? if he had the tools, he would get a game.

i can tell you with a straight face that rix and blake have a red hot dip, unlike brooks who has no mental strength.

i may be a tool, but i have a lot more clue than you. if you think that mediocre players such as brooks should take a first round pick off us, and contribute as much in 5 years as attard does in 1 as a rookie selection, you need to get the clue FFS.

[Saints94]

Didn't Raymond get delisted aswell?

[mad saint guy]

some points on the CJ brooks comparison

firstly CJ was a rookie selection cost us nothing in regard to draft picks
where brooks was a trade for a first round pick

Why should their draft position have any influence on whether they are played/retained? I'm sure Brooks didn't ring St Kilda and tell them to give Port picks 6 and 31. Fiora was taken at pick 3, should we not play him because he isn't as good as most top 3 picks?

secondly CJ although has had a fairly poor start showed signs of being able to make it
brooks 5 years shown nothing

What are these signs? In a player's first games, you look to see if they have the basic skills required. For a midfielder you look at their kicking (number one priority), composure, reading of the play, effort, pace and endurance. For an 18 year old if a few of those things aren't up to scracth it is ok as long as they are within reason (ala Armitage). Small errors in kicking technique, running style and a lack of fitness can usually be fixed with time.

However a 23 year old midfielder who turns the ball over 50% of the time he gets it, continuously fumbles the ball and demonstrates that he is completely incapable of disposing of the ball on his right side isn't a player who is showing signs that he can make it. These things would be a major worry for an 18 year old midfielder, let alone a 23 year old.

Brooks wasn't ever ready for AFL footy until 2006, when he had the size and experience to play as a third option up forward. This year he could have played as a third option up forward and pinch-hitting ruckman. He still doesn't have the strength to be a number one ruckman, but how many 23 year olds do? In his first game this year he took a few strong marks on leads and put in a very impressive effort, beating two Bulldogs players to do a very classy one-handed pick up and kick under pressure.

thirdly CJ put in an honest effort he chased he tackled he defended
brooks again looked half asleep in the wrong spot and showed no desire to play

If you can give me any actual examples of this happening I'll get back to you.

CJ may turn out to be a dud but heck he wont die wondering when i spoke to him at the Perth function he indicated that theres a huge learning curb from the WAFL to AFL but hes learning heaps and hes prepared to give it everything to make the team he desperatly want to make it as an AFL player

I would be prepared to give it everything to make it in the AFL, but I'm not good enough and I never will be. There are thousands of people who would give 100% if they found themselves on an AFL list, but you need to possess the basic skills of the game first. Jones doesn't.

[Solar]

i have had numerous brooks arguments with posters in the past so will not go any further than this post, however in rebuttal to you solar..

i have seen brooks play many times, both in his few afl games where he has done nothing (ohh hang on i forgot that dominant display against the lions who were a rabble, and he had a 3rd or 4th best tall).

also you say brooks has the tools, he has just not been given the chance.. do you think there isnt a reason for this????? if he had the tools, he would get a game.

i can tell you with a straight face that rix and blake have a red hot dip, unlike brooks who has no mental strength.

i may be a tool, but i have a lot more clue than you. if you think that mediocre players such as brooks should take a first round pick off us, and contribute as much in 5 years as attard does in 1 as a rookie selection, you need to get the clue FFS.

fonz the fact that you say you only have seen him when he has played AFL then that suggests that you have missed a lot of his development.

7 times in the best for casey in a team that included VR, rix and sometimes clarke is not a bad effort.

I have not suggested that brooks should be a number 1 ruck, in fact I would suggest that getting a game as a forward who could ruck for 5 minutes a quarter is how he should be used. But with the loss of hamill, gehrig and clarke means that he have a spot for a forward that can ruck.

What is the point of having two hacks who cannot kick (blake and rix) or mark (rix) just cause they, in your view, have a dip. I can tell you tons of park footballers who have a dip, in fact I would have a dip too, But if you can't kick (see CJ) or take a mark (see rix) then I would suggest you would struggle at AFL level.

But the reason why I suggest you get a clue is the fact that you say you will not go if brooks gets selected. Thats stupid and short sighted. I would rather brooks on the list going into 2008 then either a recycled hack or pick 100.

Can't wait for the day when all lists are lodged for the second time and brooks name is on that list.

[fonz_#15]

sorry, i forgot to read what i had wrote before posting, i was meant to go on and say i had seen many of his vfl games as well, where i saw him play mainly as a forward with maybe 20-30% game time in the ruck.

fact of the matter is my opinion is, my opinion of brooks will never change, he has been nothing short of a disappointment and i cant see him ever being good enough at afl level.

whether or not i turn up if he does get selected is still yet to be seen

[Solar]

sorry, i forgot to read what i had wrote before posting, i was meant to go on and say i had seen many of his vfl games as well, where i saw him play mainly as a forward with maybe 20-30% game time in the ruck.

fact of the matter is my opinion is, my opinion of brooks will never change, he has been nothing short of a disappointment and i cant see him ever being good enough at afl level.

whether or not i turn up if he does get selected is still yet to be seen

no worries, agreed that he has been a disapointed but taking that emotion of what we gave us for him and his form this year, in addition to the retirements lead me to the conclusion that he needs to be retained.

I would hate to see him go and get picked up as a 25 year old and star. One year contract and given game time. We couldn't do worse then blake and rix.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

firstly CJ was a rookie selection cost us nothing in regard to draft picks
where brooks was a trade for a first round pick

Why should their draft position have any influence on whether they are played/retained? I'm sure Brooks didn't ring St Kilda and tell them to give Port picks 6 and 31. Fiora was taken at pick 3, should we not play him because he isn't as good as most top 3 picks?

expectation Jones is a Rookie hes not expected to make it and if he does its a bonus brooks was traded for an early pick he would have expectation to make it he hasnt and the pick we gave up for him has surely you can see where this is a valid point its not his fault he was an early pick but being an early pick you would hope he would at least try and become somthing ?

secondly CJ although has had a fairly poor start showed signs of being able to make it
brooks 5 years shown nothing

What are these signs? In a player's first games, you look to see if they have the basic skills required. For a midfielder you look at their kicking (number one priority), composure, reading of the play, effort, pace and endurance. For an 18 year old if a few of those things aren't up to scracth it is ok as long as they are within reason (ala Armitage). Small errors in kicking technique, running style and a lack of fitness can usually be fixed with time.

CJ isnt up to AFL standard im not trying to convince you that but neither is brooks what he showed was a genuine want to be out there he gave it a red hot go his tackleing was good and his pressuer was fine his kicking let him down with brooks he showed no effort no tackling not running no atack he was basically a a marking cone !

CJ may turn out to be a dud but heck he wont die wondering when i spoke to him at the Perth function he indicated that theres a huge learning curb from the WAFL to AFL but hes learning heaps and hes prepared to give it everything to make the team he desperatly want to make it as an AFL player


I would be prepared to give it everything to make it in the AFL, but I'm not good enough and I never will be. There are thousands of people who would give 100% if they found themselves on an AFL list, but you need to possess the basic skills of the game first. Jones doesn't.

trust me i dont rate CJ as a AFL player either but hes a hell of alot better then brooks

thirdly CJ put in an honest effort he chased he tackled he defended
brooks again looked half asleep in the wrong spot and showed no desire to play

If you can give me any actual examples of this happening I'll get back to you.

have a look at brooks game from this year see his half hearted jog to the ball trickleing out of play only for the ball to be kept in and sent right over his head it was his one chance he finally got a game in the ones and he gives a half hearted jog !! come on even the worst brooks supporter would say theres something wrong with that

[Gilbert The Great]

I agree that we need to keep Brooks for one more year, one of the main reasons being the amount of other delistings and players retiring

However if we are going to keep him, imo he needs to get at least 5 games next year, just so we can see if he is up to an AFL. I mean one good game means nothing ala gwilt.

My preferred forward line next year would be
Gilbert Roo Allen
X. Clarke Kosi Milne

[saintsRrising]

Yes Allen had slipped my mind....

He is definately a young player that we would like to emerge.....a lot more mobile than Watts....and soa good option to play asa third forward.

[To the top]

And you people are going to vote a Board in!

We may as well de-list 25, because we only have 15 who are capable of featuring in the best on ground voting - so let's get rid of the rest and play with 15.

We will play Kosi as the great saviour at full forward, but we will ruck him too.

You build sides around your rucks, your spine and your mid-field -and then you fill the gaps.

And those filling the gaps had better not be your rucks and your spine - they have to be players with the ability to play in the mid-field.

And we develop our next generation rucks and KPP's in the reserves, so that they are as seasoned as they can be when called upon - which they will be because they do not grow on trees.

Talk about building a side with what we have people, not de-listing everyone and replacing them with precisely who.

Talk of what we need from players to the benefit of team structure and team performance.

No doubt we need players to show the advantage of what has been drilled into them by our coaching staff - and bring VFL development performance to AFL performance.

Because that is the order of things.

If you are relying on 18 year olds from the draft, you ARE in big trouble.

And what about Max, is Allen capable of being groomed over the next 1/2 years?

These are the issues and the challanges - and that is why we have a coaching staff and a Reserves side.

A ruckman with 50 or 60 games of Reserves Grade competition and experience is just getting to the mark - and I emphasise the description "just".

[Dis Believer]

Can I drop the name Ferguson in here.

He was recruited as a forward, plays taller than he is, can find the pill, has ok pace, and has only been played at senior level as a defender, but has shown he knows how read the play. Looks the ideal medium forward IMO, and showed in the pre-season toerrent in Cairns that his work ethic is good (31 disposals from memory).
Injury has been cruel to him as it has gotten in the way at just the wrong times, but seriously try him as a forward in the pre-season.

[Mr Magic]

Can I drop the name Ferguson in here.

He was recruited as a forward, plays taller than he is, can find the pill, has ok pace, and has only been played at senior level as a defender, but has shown he knows how read the play. Looks the ideal medium forward IMO, and showed in the pre-season toerrent in Cairns that his work ethic is good (31 disposals from memory).
Injury has been cruel to him as it has gotten in the way at just the wrong times, but seriously try him as a forward in the pre-season.

In the semi-final in 2005 against Adelaide, didn't he go forward in the second half and IIRC play quite well?

[mad saint guy]

In the semi-final in 2005 against Adelaide, didn't he go forward in the second half and IIRC play quite well?

Nope. The only possessions he got were in the back half.

He played forward in his first game in 2003 and finished with 4 possessions.

[Dis Believer]

In the semi-final in 2005 against Adelaide, didn't he go forward in the second half and IIRC play quite well?

Nope. The only possessions he got were in the back half.

He played forward in his first game in 2003 and finished with 4 possessions.

Really? His first game -hmmm, must be a dud then - let's chop him.

[Mr Magic]

In the semi-final in 2005 against Adelaide, didn't he go forward in the second half and IIRC play quite well?

Nope. The only possessions he got were in the back half.
quote]

My memory must be failing me - I was sure I remembered him taking at least 1 mark on the half forward line in the third quarter?