Anyone hear Billy's slip of the tounge?

[stinger]

It has often been discussed the issues at st kilda in 93 to 95ish revolved around the 'get williams' strat at the end of 91...

and then followed by the get mitchell strat at the end of 92...

yep...well and truly f*** us up for 4-5 years...until alves brought it back and put us back on track....with aqn injection of young blood i might add........anyone remember...maxie, lappin, smith brown and jones......and who was responsible for the previous f*** up...no other that our own mr kenny sheldon and his mate peter hudson.....

[mad saint guy]

if fit, josh fraser ticks all the boxes that people claim about hudson and jolly etc.

i think hille and clarke keating are about the only two ruckmen we consistently give it to him, the rest he can beat.

a quick scan of the stats shows that he is so far ahead of hudson and jolly its not funny...

statistically behind spider and cox, but in the elite bracket for performance for ruckmen...

He wouldn't be in the top 8 ruckmen in the competition.

He averaged less than 15 hitouts this season, playing most games as their ONLY ruckman. He gets thrashed in the ruck by anyone with a big body. He is good around the ground, but we have plenty of mobile talls who can't ruck. We need someone who can give us a 60/40 advantage in the hitouts and then have some presence around the ground. And this player needs to be durable. Jolly and Hudson fit that description, Fraser doesn't.

Fraser is a 202cm Jason Blake. Huge engine, can get a bit of the footy around the ground but no agression and gets flogged in the hitouts.

[st.byron]

Yes, he ticks all the boxes in rucking ability and ability to contribute around the ground.
But why take on another player in the second half of his career with question marks over fitness on the say so of the medicos? The medicos said Gardiner was fine, they've been saying Hamill will be fine for two years. They said Penny would be fine. I'm not dismissing medicos opinions in total, but IMO a player's recent history of injury, games played, recent on field contribution and age says a lot more about his value than a medicos piece of paper.
I'd say no to Fraser as a trade for our pick #9 on these grounds.

[rodgerfox]

Fraser doesn't play a big mans game.

Doesn't take pack marks.

Can't even mark with his hands, too often makes on his chest.

Doesn't often contest packs - instead waits for crumbs.


We want a ruckman who plays a big mans game.

[savatage]

Capuano was fired after getting pantsed by Fraser in the ruck. 'nuff said.

[Saint Mik]

Rodg dont you remember those GF's he played in took some great pack marks in front of goals and nearly got the pies over the line.

I would love him in our side if his body is right they dont grow on trees and if he is thinking of going and is not happy we should push for someone like him, we have had ALOT worse than Fraser in the past and his inclusion in our club can only help the club going forward.

Still young 170+ games, good finals experience we need someone like him IMO

[Dan Warna]

fraser is younger than jolly and hudson and much much better.

statistically his form would indicate he would be 50% better than either off them.

while he does have his limitations, he is certainly far and away a gun player.

behind spider and cox, but up there with the second string of ruckmen under the elites.

given folks are willing to give our pick 9 for jolly who is hardly better than hackland and ben hudson who is about the same, i think the criticism of fraser is laughable.

the only concern I would have is his fitness as J.boy pointed too.

[maverick]

Fraser doesn't play a big mans game.

Doesn't take pack marks.

Can't even mark with his hands, too often makes on his chest.

Doesn't often contest packs - instead waits for crumbs.


We want a ruckman who plays a big mans game.

110% agree.

[Dan Warna]

Fraser doesn't play a big mans game.

Doesn't take pack marks.

Can't even mark with his hands, too often makes on his chest.

Doesn't often contest packs - instead waits for crumbs.


We want a ruckman who plays a big mans game.

110% agree.

well you can forget about dudleys like hudson and jolly then.

there isn't a better ruckman on the market atm, if fraser is on the market.

if fraser (fit) isn't worth a round 1 pick, hudson or jolly aren't worth round 2 picks.

[Snakeman66]

i would refute that Fraser is fragile, your not confusing him with jeff whte are you?

07 has been about his worst year for injury and j.boys post could explain that but till then 156 senior games out of a possible 180 odd from 2000 draft selection to 2007 including games i

He was drafted in 1999 draft.

2000 21 games (22 max)
2001 21 games (22 max)
2002 25 games (25 max)
2003 23 games (25 max)
2004 18 games (22 max)
2005 5 games (22 max)
2006 23 games (23 max)
2007 20 games (25 max)

So that makes it 156 out of max 186.

[Dan Warna]

i would refute that Fraser is fragile, your not confusing him with jeff whte are you?

07 has been about his worst year for injury and j.boys post could explain that but till then 156 senior games out of a possible 180 odd from 2000 draft selection to 2007 including games i

He was drafted in 1999 draft.

2000 21 games (22 max)
2001 21 games (22 max)
2002 25 games (25 max)
2003 23 games (25 max)
2004 18 games (22 max)
2005 5 games (22 max)
2006 23 games (23 max)
2007 20 games (25 max)

So that makes it 156 out of max 186.

well that knocks on the head the 'fragile' arguement

and getting dozed by clarke keating in 02/03 as a 21/22 year old is no shame.

pretty sure he didn't squib, he was just not big enough or strong enough.

I remember seeing goose hammered by anthony rocca and Primus bull dozing kosi, nothing soft about those two, just the others were older and bigger and stronger. at the time.

interestingly jeff white is listed as only 195 cm ><!!!!

[Snakeman66]

i would refute that Fraser is fragile, your not confusing him with jeff whte are you?

07 has been about his worst year for injury and j.boys post could explain that but till then 156 senior games out of a possible 180 odd from 2000 draft selection to 2007 including games i

He was drafted in 1999 draft.

2000 21 games (22 max)
2001 21 games (22 max)
2002 25 games (25 max)
2003 23 games (25 max)
2004 18 games (22 max)
2005 5 games (22 max)
2006 23 games (23 max)
2007 20 games (25 max)

So that makes it 156 out of max 186.

well that knocks on the head the 'fragile' arguement

and getting dozed by clarke keating in 02/03 as a 21/22 year old is no shame.

pretty sure he didn't squib, he was just not big enough or strong enough.

I remember seeing goose hammered by anthony rocca and Primus bull dozing kosi, nothing soft about those two, just the others were older and bigger and stronger. at the time.

interestingly jeff white is listed as only 195 cm ><!!!!

For info on Kosi

2001 20 games (22 max)
2002 4 games (22 max)
2003 17 games (22 max)
2004 17 games (25 max)
2005 13 games (24 max)
2006 7 games (23 max)
2007 19 games (22 max)


Kosi has played 97 games out of max 160.

[rodgerfox]

Rodg dont you remember those GF's he played in took some great pack marks in front of goals and nearly got the pies over the line.

Nope, must have missed that.