Jolly

[Armoooo]

What would we say to Jolly + 3rd rounder for our pick #9?
I know everyone loves to keep high draft picks but Jolly and Blake would be a good enough ruck duo to beat about 10 or 11 teams in the ruck and it would free Kosi to play FF and spend time in the Ruck every now and again...
Who knows if Gardiner comes good, he and Jolly would be a great team...
I believe we have a solid backline...
2 KPB: Max, Maguire
2 HBF: Gram, Gilbert
2 HBP: Baker, L.Fisher
2 loose men: Goddard, S.Fisher
Several up & comers: Gwilt, Raph etc.
Our midfield is more than solid: Harvey, Dal, Lenny, Ball, Montagna
a GREAT forward line: Roo, Kosi, Milne, Xavier and the possibility or Watts etc.
Add two quality ruckman to that list in Gardiner and Jolly and I believe with the right game plan and management that could be a premiership winning team.
I know that everybody really wants to keep draft picks because they are the future but I don't think we would be doing ourselves a disservice in trading pick #9 for Jolly and their 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder for Pettifer and their 4th rounder....

This way we would end up with a 2nd, 3rd and two 4th rounders in the draft as well as Jolly and Pettifer...

[Sam23]

No way they'll take that.

[fonz_#15]

pick 9 is goin nowhere, and if it does i will be very p!ssed off.

[Armoooo]

pick 9 is goin nowhere, and if it does i will be very p!ssed off.

I don't understand why I would be more than happy if our number 9 pick turned out to be as good as Jolly, this way we could have a player of that quality in a position we have severely struggled with the last few years while our window of opportunity is still open.

[plugger66]

What would we say to Jolly + 3rd rounder for our pick #9?
I know everyone loves to keep high draft picks but Jolly and Blake would be a good enough ruck duo to beat about 10 or 11 teams in the ruck and it would free Kosi to play FF and spend time in the Ruck every now and again...
Who knows if Gardiner comes good, he and Jolly would be a great team...
I believe we have a solid backline...
2 KPB: Max, Maguire
2 HBF: Gram, Gilbert
2 HBP: Baker, L.Fisher
2 loose men: Goddard, S.Fisher
Several up & comers: Gwilt, Raph etc.
Our midfield is more than solid: Harvey, Dal, Lenny, Ball, Montagna
a GREAT forward line: Roo, Kosi, Milne, Xavier and the possibility or Watts etc.
Add two quality ruckman to that list in Gardiner and Jolly and I believe with the right game plan and management that could be a premiership winning team.
I know that everybody really wants to keep draft picks because they are the future but I don't think we would be doing ourselves a disservice in trading pick #9 for Jolly and their 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder for Pettifer and their 4th rounder....

This way we would end up with a 2nd, 3rd and two 4th rounders in the draft as well as Jolly and Pettifer...

Like it. Pettifer basically for a round 4 it sounds like. Tigers might jump at that one.

[Armoooo]

No way they'll take that.

I assume you are referring to Sydney, well the rmour is that Jolly wants to go to Melbourne and if that was the case that would be the best deal that they could get.
Carlton, Melbourne and Richmond would not give up such low draft picks, Kangaroos and Essendon already have a few ruck options so really our only competition would be Hawks or Pies and we have a lower pick than them and Collingwood would be unlikely to trade their draft picks due to their recent successful recruiting.

[Sam23]

What would we say to Jolly + 3rd rounder for our pick #9?
I know everyone loves to keep high draft picks but Jolly and Blake would be a good enough ruck duo to beat about 10 or 11 teams in the ruck and it would free Kosi to play FF and spend time in the Ruck every now and again...
Who knows if Gardiner comes good, he and Jolly would be a great team...
I believe we have a solid backline...
2 KPB: Max, Maguire
2 HBF: Gram, Gilbert
2 HBP: Baker, L.Fisher
2 loose men: Goddard, S.Fisher
Several up & comers: Gwilt, Raph etc.
Our midfield is more than solid: Harvey, Dal, Lenny, Ball, Montagna
a GREAT forward line: Roo, Kosi, Milne, Xavier and the possibility or Watts etc.
Add two quality ruckman to that list in Gardiner and Jolly and I believe with the right game plan and management that could be a premiership winning team.
I know that everybody really wants to keep draft picks because they are the future but I don't think we would be doing ourselves a disservice in trading pick #9 for Jolly and their 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder for Pettifer and their 4th rounder....

This way we would end up with a 2nd, 3rd and two 4th rounders in the draft as well as Jolly and Pettifer...

Like it. Pettifer basically for a round 4 it sounds like. Tigers might jump at that one.

lol, your a bastard.

[fonz_#15]

do i have to dig out the tired barks 4 eva stats examples on recycled players?? how many years will you get out of a draft pick, generally rd 1 picks stay the distance. Jolly isn't that great and i don't want to lose our first round pcik.

also i don't think we have pick 9 since Carlton's priority is before our pick so they should have picks 1 and 3.

[Armoooo]

do i have to dig out the tired barks 4 eva stats examples on recycled players?? how many years will you get out of a draft pick, generally rd 1 picks stay the distance. Jolly isn't that great and i don't want to lose our first round pcik.

also i don't think we have pick 9 since Carlton's priority is before our pick so they should have picks 1 and 3.

As far as I was aware we do have pick number 9 althought I could be wrong.
As for recycled players...
We have a starting 22 who's average age is approximately 23.5 so that means in 1.5-2 years that team will be in it's prime, so by bringing in two more recycled players who will be in their prime at that time we are maximizing our chance of a premiership.
What if our pick #9 turns out to be a gun he probably wont come good until our window has closed anyway. If Sydney and Richmond were to accept these deals I think we would be crazy not to....

[fonz_#15]

do i have to dig out the tired barks 4 eva stats examples on recycled players?? how many years will you get out of a draft pick, generally rd 1 picks stay the distance. Jolly isn't that great and i don't want to lose our first round pcik.

also i don't think we have pick 9 since Carlton's priority is before our pick so they should have picks 1 and 3.

As far as I was aware we do have pick number 9 althought I could be wrong.
As for recycled players...
We have a starting 22 who's average age is approximately 23.5 so that means in 1.5-2 years that team will be in it's prime, so by bringing in two more recycled players who will be in their prime at that time we are maximizing our chance of a premiership.
What if our pick #9 turns out to be a gun he probably wont come good until our window has closed anyway. If Sydney and Richmond were to accept these deals I think we would be crazy not to....

have you not seen joel selwood, nathan, jones, pendelbury etc play this year?

if and its a big if the pick turns out to be a gun, why couldn't they feature straight away in our 22 such as the players liusted above.

[Armoooo]

What would we say to Jolly + 3rd rounder for our pick #9?
I know everyone loves to keep high draft picks but Jolly and Blake would be a good enough ruck duo to beat about 10 or 11 teams in the ruck and it would free Kosi to play FF and spend time in the Ruck every now and again...
Who knows if Gardiner comes good, he and Jolly would be a great team...
I believe we have a solid backline...
2 KPB: Max, Maguire
2 HBF: Gram, Gilbert
2 HBP: Baker, L.Fisher
2 loose men: Goddard, S.Fisher
Several up & comers: Gwilt, Raph etc.
Our midfield is more than solid: Harvey, Dal, Lenny, Ball, Montagna
a GREAT forward line: Roo, Kosi, Milne, Xavier and the possibility or Watts etc.
Add two quality ruckman to that list in Gardiner and Jolly and I believe with the right game plan and management that could be a premiership winning team.
I know that everybody really wants to keep draft picks because they are the future but I don't think we would be doing ourselves a disservice in trading pick #9 for Jolly and their 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder for Pettifer and their 4th rounder....

This way we would end up with a 2nd 3rd and two 4th rounders in the draft as well as Jolly and Pettifer...

Like it. Pettifer basically for a round 4 it sounds like. Tigers might jump at that one.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough...
Richmond Lose: 4th round pick (Approx pick #52) Pettifer
Richmond Gain: 2nd round pick (approx pick #27)

Sydney Lose: Jolly, 2nd round pick (approx pick #29)
Sydney Gain: Pick #9

St.Kilda Lose: Pick #9, 2nd round pick (approx pick #27)
St.Kilda Gain: Jolly, Pettifer, 2nd round pick (approx pick #29) 4th round pick (approx pick #52)

[vacuous space]

Would you trade Armitage for Jolly? If not, then it's a bit foolish to trade the exact same pick one year later for Jolly.

[Armoooo]

do i have to dig out the tired barks 4 eva stats examples on recycled players?? how many years will you get out of a draft pick, generally rd 1 picks stay the distance. Jolly isn't that great and i don't want to lose our first round pcik.

also i don't think we have pick 9 since Carlton's priority is before our pick so they should have picks 1 and 3.

As far as I was aware we do have pick number 9 althought I could be wrong.
As for recycled players...
We have a starting 22 who's average age is approximately 23.5 so that means in 1.5-2 years that team will be in it's prime, so by bringing in two more recycled players who will be in their prime at that time we are maximizing our chance of a premiership.
What if our pick #9 turns out to be a gun he probably wont come good until our window has closed anyway. If Sydney and Richmond were to accept these deals I think we would be crazy not to....

have you not seen joel selwood, nathan, jones, pendelbury etc play this year?

if and its a big if the pick turns out to be a gun, why couldn't they feature straight away in our 22 such as the players liusted above.

Have you not seen Bryce Gibbs, Lachlan Hansen, Mitchell Thorp, Ben Ried, David Armitage, James Sellar, Mitchell Brown, Xavier Ellis, Beau Dowler, Josh Kennedy, Jarryd Oakley-Nicholls, Marcus Drum, Travis Varcoe, Richard Douglas... What I am saying is why take the gamble? what we need more than anything is another ruckman and a mid sized forward, why gamble that they will come good right away when realistically it will take 3-4 years when we can get two ready made players right now. You also have to remember out of the players I mentioned they were all from 2 consecutive "super" drafts and still so many of them have failed to make an impact and this years draft is supposed to be one the weakest in recent years... the odds are against us to take a punt on the draft I think we should go with the recycled players one last time.

[Armoooo]

Would you trade Armitage for Jolly? If not, then it's a bit foolish to trade the exact same pick one year later for Jolly.

Super Draft VS Crap Draft...

[vacuous space]

Would you trade Armitage for Jolly? If not, then it's a bit foolish to trade the exact same pick one year later for Jolly.

Super Draft VS Crap Draft...

According to...?

[Armoooo]

Would you trade Armitage for Jolly? If not, then it's a bit foolish to trade the exact same pick one year later for Jolly.

Super Draft VS Crap Draft...

According to...?

Pick up a newspaper and read what every recruiter and so called 'expert' has said so far, they all agree that there is some serious talent in the first few but apart from that its pretty slim picking....

And anyway just look at recent number 9 draft picks:
98 Mark McVeigh
99 Caydyn Beetham
00 Kayne Pettifer
01 Luke Molan (super draft)
02 Hamish McIntosh
03 David Trotter
04 Jordan Russell
05 Mitchell Clark
06 David Armitage (super draft)
Now how many of those players dominated in the first 4-5 years?
Even if we do get a guy that goes on to play 250+ games for the club it wont be much good if we are back on the bottom of the ladder in 2 years...
This is our best chance we need to roll the dice and try and get a flag in the next 3 years rather than accepting mediocre 6th and 7th places before falling to the bottom.

[Unforgiven]

pick 9 is goin nowhere, and if it does i will be very p!ssed off.

Yeh id be frustrated if 9 went as well

[st_Trav_ofWA]

if there is any slim chance a player like Masten could slip to 9 (it may happen as most clubs want a tall KPP ) then i would keep pick 9 a top ten pick in any draft is a decent player

[plugger66]

Would you trade Armitage for Jolly? If not, then it's a bit foolish to trade the exact same pick one year later for Jolly.

Super Draft VS Crap Draft...

According to...?

Pick up a newspaper and read what every recruiter and so called 'expert' has said so far, they all agree that there is some serious talent in the first few but apart from that its pretty slim picking....

And anyway just look at recent number 9 draft picks:
98 Mark McVeigh
99 Caydyn Beetham
00 Kayne Pettifer
01 Luke Molan (super draft)
02 Hamish McIntosh
03 David Trotter
04 Jordan Russell
05 Mitchell Clark
06 David Armitage (super draft)
Now how many of those players dominated in the first 4-5 years?
Even if we do get a guy that goes on to play 250+ games for the club it wont be much good if we are back on the bottom of the ladder in 2 years...
This is our best chance we need to roll the dice and try and get a flag in the next 3 years rather than accepting mediocre 6th and 7th places before falling to the bottom.

With what you want to do if we dont win in 2 years we will not win for 10 years because we will not pick up young recruits. Jolly for pick 9 would be madness. Pick the best young players and if you have to trade use 3-4 rounders.

[vacuous space]

Pick up a newspaper and read what every recruiter and so called 'expert' has said so far, they all agree that there is some serious talent in the first few but apart from that its pretty slim picking....

If that's in every newspaper, I think I would have read it by now. I suppose it would be too much to ask for a link pointing to a single recruiter talking about this draft in such terms. Everything I've read suggests that there is going to be plenty of talent available at pick 9.

And anyway just look at recent number 9 draft picks:
98 Mark McVeigh
99 Caydyn Beetham
00 Kayne Pettifer
01 Luke Molan (super draft)
02 Hamish McIntosh
03 David Trotter
04 Jordan Russell
05 Mitchell Clark
06 David Armitage (super draft)

Look what still was available:
98 Lenny Hayes
99 Darren Glass
00 Shaun Burgoyne
01 Nick Dal Santo
02 Hamish McIntosh
03 Brent Stanton
04 Adam Pattison
05 Nathan Jones

Now how many of those players dominated in the first 4-5 years?

The only chance you've got to get a player like the ones I've listed above is to draft them. If you make a pick, you might not get a star player, but if you don't make a pick, you definitely won't. Darren Jolly isn't good enough to warrant that high a selection. He's not the difference between competing for a flag and falling to the bottom of the ladder. He's not even among the best rucks in the league, and he never will be.

[Armoooo]

Pick up a newspaper and read what every recruiter and so called 'expert' has said so far, they all agree that there is some serious talent in the first few but apart from that its pretty slim picking....

If that's in every newspaper, I think I would have read it by now. I suppose it would be too much to ask for a link pointing to a single recruiter talking about this draft in such terms. Everything I've read suggests that there is going to be plenty of talent available at pick 9.

And anyway just look at recent number 9 draft picks:
98 Mark McVeigh
99 Caydyn Beetham
00 Kayne Pettifer
01 Luke Molan (super draft)
02 Hamish McIntosh
03 David Trotter
04 Jordan Russell
05 Mitchell Clark
06 David Armitage (super draft)

Look what still was available:
98 Lenny Hayes
99 Darren Glass
00 Shaun Burgoyne
01 Nick Dal Santo
02 Hamish McIntosh
03 Brent Stanton
04 Adam Pattison
05 Nathan Jones

Now how many of those players dominated in the first 4-5 years?

The only chance you've got to get a player like the ones I've listed above is to draft them. If you make a pick, you might not get a star player, but if you don't make a pick, you definitely won't. Darren Jolly isn't good enough to warrant that high a selection. He's not the difference between competing for a flag and falling to the bottom of the ladder. He's not even among the best rucks in the league, and he never will be.

He may not be the difference as an individual but having him especially if he were to ruck along side Gardiner would free up Kosi to play in the forward line with Roo which would be a dam good spine.
By your logic we will pick up the best player available with our pick which is quite unlikely to happen. We can be conservative and go with draft picks which probably wont lead us to a flag in the next 5-6 years or we can take a punt on 2008-2010 being our era.

[evertonfc]

No, we won't be accepting that trade.

Armooo, FYI, only an amazing deal would see us part company with Pick 9.

What you propose is in a different ball park to reality. Sorry.

Jolly, Buchanon + 3rd Round Pick for Pick 9 might interest me.

[fonz_#15]

throw 1000 names at me and you won't change my opinion that number 9 draft pick should stay with us armoooo.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

im of the firm feeling that good ruckmen are grown at a club not poached from another . persist with VR and draft another bean pole and be patient
drafting has beens and never was's is not the answer

[Armoooo]

2009 starting 22
FB: L.Fisher Maguire Attard
.........25...........25..........23.....
HB: Goddard S.Fisher Gilbert
.........24...........26.......23.......
C: Gram Dal Santo Montagna
.......25.........25..........25..........
HF: X.Clarke Riewoldt Pettifer
........25...........26...........27.....
FF: Milne Koschitzke Watts
.......28.........26.........23..........
R: Jolly Hayes Ball
....27.......29....25...
I/C: R.Clarke Armitage Allen Gardiner
........24...............20.......21......30......

If we were to do those 2 trades this is what our starting 22 could look like assume that none of the players we draft turn out to be keepers...
That team looks dam good to me and could be a very serious contender for 3 or 4 years... where as if we draft we would be taking a punt on whether or not they would develop, whether they would fit the team balance for position and age.