Jolly

woooosaints · Thu 13 Sep 2007 7:51pm

that side looks great on paper armo but i doubt we would see them all on the park at one given time

Armoooo · Post: # 455494Post **Armoooo** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:00pm

woooosaints wrote:that side looks great on paper armo but i doubt we would see them all on the park at one given time

That is probably true but you can only judge these things on paper, for all we know the players we draft could be injury prone aswell...
I only believe we should give up our number 1 pick this year, so I still believe we should be drafting via the national and rookie drafts so that we can have competition for players to keep their spot and to add some depth to the side.

If we made these two trades I would love to see us pick up a hard inside midfielder with our pick #29, a tall backman with our next pick, an indigenous forward pocket with our next pick and a wild card with our last pick. While using our rookie picks on the quickest players available or the KPB players with the most potential.

woooosaints · Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:02pm

we dont need pettifer why trade for him?

Armoooo · Post: # 455502Post **Armoooo** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:09pm

woooosaints wrote:we dont need pettifer why trade for him?

I believe that we do need Pettifer or someone like him.
We can't just have Riewoldt and Kosi as our only avenues to goal and our midfielders are not exactly famous for their goal kicking.
We have got Roo and Kosi who we hope can kick 100 between them but after that it's slim pickings. We would hope that milne would kick 25+ so we would need either Xavier, Watts or Brookes to step up and become goal kicking machines. I believe that Pettifer would be far more dangerous in a St.Kilda forward line than he would be in Richmond's, he would have better delivery more often with lower quality opposition. He managed to kick 30+ goals for Richmond this year so if he could manage that for us next year he would be an extremely handy pickup. Another reason why he could come in handy is because of his strong marking he could play decoy as well as be a target and he can also crum.

footynut · Post: # 455506Post **footynut** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:10pm

We must not give up Pick 9. It would be just stupid!!!!

Now if Jolly goes to Melboune, we should target Paul Johnson. Plus we'd be able to get him for much less than Jolly. (maybe a 3rd round pick)

He could be quality

plugger66 · Post: # 455508Post **plugger66** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:11pm

Armoooo wrote:
woooosaints wrote:we dont need pettifer why trade for him?
I believe that we do need Pettifer or someone like him.
We can't just have Riewoldt and Kosi as our only avenues to goal and our midfielders are not exactly famous for their goal kicking.
We have got Roo and Kosi who we hope can kick 100 between them but after that it's slim pickings. We would hope that milne would kick 25+ so we would need either Xavier, Watts or Brookes to step up and become goal kicking machines. I believe that Pettifer would be far more dangerous in a St.Kilda forward line than he would be in Richmond's, he would have better delivery more often with lower quality opposition. He managed to kick 30+ goals for Richmond this year so if he could manage that for us next year he would be an extremely handy pickup. Another reason why he could come in handy is because of his strong marking he could play decoy as well as be a target and he can also crum.

When did the Tigers say Pettifer was up for trade or he wanted to leave.

QueenC · Post: # 455513Post **QueenC** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:14pm

Armoooo wrote:
I assume you are referring to Sydney, well the rmour is that Jolly wants to go to Melbourne and if that was the case that would be the best deal that they could get.
Carlton, Melbourne and Richmond would not give up such low draft picks, Kangaroos and Essendon already have a few ruck options so really our only competition would be Hawks or Pies and we have a lower pick than them and Collingwood would be unlikely to trade their draft picks due to their recent successful recruiting.

I am going to assume that you mean Melbourne the club and not Melbourne the city, because that has been an ongoing misunderstanding.
I have not heard of any rumours regarding Darren Jolly wanting to come back to the Demons (not that they don't exist), besides, while we do need to desperately add another competent ruckman to our list, whether that be through the draft or via trade, I cannot see Jolly coming back to the Dees. He didn't leave under the best of circumstances and I can't see him wanting to go back to being Whites understudy which for 2008 at least he would still be.

It should also be taken into consideration that we got a first round (#15 - which became Lynden Dunn) draft pick from the Swans for him in the first place. Since then he has added a Premiership medal and another Grand Final appearance to his resume. Now he is not brilliant but is very serviceable and he looks good, on paper at least, and the way I see it he would probably not be a cheap acquisition.

Oh and Melbourne will not be trading away its #4 draft pick!!!

Armoooo · Post: # 455514Post **Armoooo** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:14pm

plugger66 wrote:
Armoooo wrote:
woooosaints wrote:we dont need pettifer why trade for him?
I believe that we do need Pettifer or someone like him.
We can't just have Riewoldt and Kosi as our only avenues to goal and our midfielders are not exactly famous for their goal kicking.
We have got Roo and Kosi who we hope can kick 100 between them but after that it's slim pickings. We would hope that milne would kick 25+ so we would need either Xavier, Watts or Brookes to step up and become goal kicking machines. I believe that Pettifer would be far more dangerous in a St.Kilda forward line than he would be in Richmond's, he would have better delivery more often with lower quality opposition. He managed to kick 30+ goals for Richmond this year so if he could manage that for us next year he would be an extremely handy pickup. Another reason why he could come in handy is because of his strong marking he could play decoy as well as be a target and he can also crum.
When did the Tigers say Pettifer was up for trade or he wanted to leave.

They haven't but what is in it for Richmond to keep him, realistically they will not be in contention for a good 5-6 years and by that time Pettifer will be past it so it is in their best interest to trade him for youth, Pettifer is just holding back guys like Hughes, Schulz and Riewoldt etc.
This trade would be in the best interest of both clubs.

QueenC · Post: # 455517Post **QueenC** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:15pm

footynut wrote:We must not give up Pick 9. It would be just stupid!!!!

Now if Jolly goes to Melboune, we should target Paul Johnson. Plus we'd be able to get him for much less than Jolly. (maybe a 3rd round pick)

He could be quality

Jolly is a possibly a slightly better ruckman than Johnson and both a reasonably good around the ground, but I honestly can't see big Paul going anywhere either.

Now Mark Jamar we could probably talk about

!!!

vacuous space · Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:17pm

Armoooo wrote:By your logic we will pick up the best player available with our pick which is quite unlikely to happen. We can be conservative and go with draft picks which probably wont lead us to a flag in the next 5-6 years or we can take a punt on 2008-2010 being our era.

I'd be happy to trade the pick if it were for a better player than Darren Jolly. Jolly isn't a top-10 ruck. He's had disappointing finals performances. His hitouts have been boosted by Sydney's slowplay. He's a marginal improvement in the middle, and not as good as Kosi around the ground. I'd rather keep the pick, play Kosi as a ruck-forward and give a chance to Allen/Brooks/Watts as a deep forward.

plugger66 · Post: # 455521Post **plugger66** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:18pm

Armoooo wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
Armoooo wrote:
woooosaints wrote:we dont need pettifer why trade for him?
I believe that we do need Pettifer or someone like him.
We can't just have Riewoldt and Kosi as our only avenues to goal and our midfielders are not exactly famous for their goal kicking.
We have got Roo and Kosi who we hope can kick 100 between them but after that it's slim pickings. We would hope that milne would kick 25+ so we would need either Xavier, Watts or Brookes to step up and become goal kicking machines. I believe that Pettifer would be far more dangerous in a St.Kilda forward line than he would be in Richmond's, he would have better delivery more often with lower quality opposition. He managed to kick 30+ goals for Richmond this year so if he could manage that for us next year he would be an extremely handy pickup. Another reason why he could come in handy is because of his strong marking he could play decoy as well as be a target and he can also crum.
When did the Tigers say Pettifer was up for trade or he wanted to leave.
They haven't but what is in it for Richmond to keep him, realistically they will not be in contention for a good 5-6 years and by that time Pettifer will be past it so it is in their best interest to trade him for youth, Pettifer is just holding back guys like Hughes, Schulz and Riewoldt etc.
This trade would be in the best interest of both clubs.

Under that theory lets get Bruce from Melbourne and as well as Scotland from Carlton. While where at it Stanton could be good from the bombers.

QueenC · Post: # 455523Post **QueenC** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:20pm

plugger66 wrote:
Under that theory lets get Bruce from Melbourne and as well as Scotland from Carlton. While where at it Stanton could be good from the bombers.

I realise that was sarcasm, but Bruce maybe.......

Oh and that comparison is a bit far fetched

!!!

Armoooo · Post: # 455524Post **Armoooo** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:21pm

vacuous space wrote:
Armoooo wrote:By your logic we will pick up the best player available with our pick which is quite unlikely to happen. We can be conservative and go with draft picks which probably wont lead us to a flag in the next 5-6 years or we can take a punt on 2008-2010 being our era.
I'd be happy to trade the pick if it were for a better player than Darren Jolly. Jolly isn't a top-10 ruck. He's had disappointing finals performances. His hitouts have been boosted by Sydney's slowplay. He's a marginal improvement in the middle, and not as good as Kosi around the ground. I'd rather keep the pick, play Kosi as a ruck-forward and give a chance to Allen/Brooks/Watts as a deep forward.

I think not having Jolly in the top 10 ruckmen is a bit harsh I would have him at about 6-7.

As for playing Kosi in the ruck and one of those 3 deep forward what if none of them come through, none of them have done anything in the AFL so far so how do we know that they will be able to handle such an important position.
I see Watts being a forward pocket and Allen being a KPP off the I/C but I still think we need Kosi in the forward line because pack marks are the only known way to beat the flood.

Armoooo · Post: # 455532Post **Armoooo** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:24pm

plugger66 wrote: Under that theory lets get Bruce from Melbourne and as well as Scotland from Carlton. While where at it Stanton could be good from the bombers.

I also understand that this is sarcasim but don't you think comparing Pettifer to Cameron Bruce is a bit much?

Even though they probably wont be around when their respective teams are contenders they are still required at their clubs.
Carlton have a good young midfield coming through and they need some age and experience to help them develop and same with Melbourne. As for Richmond their young forwards already have Brown and Richo to lead them, therefore Pettifer is in no way required.

woooosaints · Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:25pm

id like jolly but i dont want to trade pick 9 for him. if we traded our second round + a player i dont see anyone that we would give away or sydney would want maybe a rix/brooks but i still doubt it heck we dont even want those duds on our list

plugger66 · Post: # 455541Post **plugger66** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 8:28pm

Armoooo wrote:
plugger66 wrote: Under that theory lets get Bruce from Melbourne and as well as Scotland from Carlton. While where at it Stanton could be good from the bombers.
I also understand that this is sarcasim but don't you think comparing Pettifer to Cameron Bruce is a bit much?

Even though they probably wont be around when their respective teams are contenders they are still required at their clubs.
Carlton have a good young midfield coming through and they need some age and experience to help them develop and same with Melbourne. As for Richmond their young forwards already have Brown and Richo to lead them, therefore Pettifer is in no way required.

I would a player who kicked about 40 goals is very much a required player at their club. Matter of fact he would be more required than Scotland however both are required. Why dont we go after Nathan Brown. I am sure he is holding back someone.

fugazi · Post: # 455576Post **fugazi** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 9:04pm

Round 2 pick...Roosy owes us a decent trade given the reasonable terms we have let Hall go for in the past....also his carrying on about Hawthorn and Spider should weigh against him making too much fuss about Jolly wanting to go to his preferred club (especially Lyon being his best mate and all)

stinger · Post: # 455581Post **stinger** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 9:07pm

no...no...no....no......ffs.....give up a potential 200 gamer for an over the hill hack ruckman......god help me...

woooosaints · Thu 13 Sep 2007 9:27pm

stinger wrote:no...no...no....no......ffs.....give up a potential 200 gamer for an over the hill hack ruckman......god help me...

POTENTIAL 200 gamer good words or he could be a potential 5 gamer barry brooks or a luke livingston

mad saint guy · Thu 13 Sep 2007 9:50pm

stinger wrote:no...no...no....no......ffs.....give up a potential 200 gamer for an over the hill hack ruckman......god help me...

I fail to see how a 25 year-old premiership ruckman who is top 3 in the competition for hitouts is an "over the hill hack".

Jolly is definitely in the top 6 ruckmen in the competition, but he isn't a massive improvement on Kosi or Gardiner (Cox is the only ruckman who would hugely improve our chances for a flag). If we could get him for a deal that doesn't involve pick 9 or a top 20 player I would be very happy, but I think we'd be wasting our time chasing him. Everitt only has one more dodgy year left and their only other half-capable ruckman (Doyle) is injured for 15 out of 22 rounds every year. They would be shattered to lose him and would probably want more than pick 9.

Since Seaby and Charman re-signed I don't think it is really worth chasing any opposition ruckman (unless Brendon Lade wants out). Use pick 9 on the best midfielder available and see if we can snare a highly-rated ruck prospect (there are plenty this year) that falls to our second pick. If not, just keep drafting midfielders.

Stephen Theodore · Thu 13 Sep 2007 10:23pm

Armoooo wrote:
2009 starting 22
FB: L.Fisher Maguire Attard
.........25...........25..........23.....
HB: Goddard S.Fisher Gilbert
.........24...........26.......23.......
C: Gram Dal Santo Montagna
.......25.........25..........25..........
HF: X.Clarke Riewoldt Pettifer
........25...........26...........27.....
FF: Milne Koschitzke Watts
.......28.........26.........23..........
R: Jolly Hayes Ball
....27.......29....25...
I/C: R.Clarke Armitage Allen Gardiner
........24...............20.......21......30......

Wheres Maxy ?

Armoooo · Post: # 455691Post **Armoooo** » Thu 13 Sep 2007 11:04pm

Stephen Theodore wrote:Armoooo wrote:
2009 starting 22
FB: L.Fisher Maguire Attard
.........25...........25..........23.....
HB: Goddard S.Fisher Gilbert
.........24...........26.......23.......
C: Gram Dal Santo Montagna
.......25.........25..........25..........
HF: X.Clarke Riewoldt Pettifer
........25...........26...........27.....
FF: Milne Koschitzke Watts
.......28.........26.........23..........
R: Jolly Hayes Ball
....27.......29....25...
I/C: R.Clarke Armitage Allen Gardiner
........24...............20.......21......30......

Wheres Maxy ?

He signed for one year and although it upset me not to include him I just didn't think that he would have it in him to go another year, I also didn't include Fiora, Blake or Baker.... some hard decisions have to be made if we are going to move forward...