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Dan Warna wrote:I dont see him as that much better than hackland.
I don't see him as much taller than Ackland. Charman is everything that Ackland could have been. He plays with 100% intensity all the time. He wins hitouts, despite his size, and directs his taps better than anyone we have at this club. He takes contested marks and uses the ball well. He's a number one ruckman, and a good one at that.
I wouldn't give up a top-10 pick for him though. I wouldn't give up Armo and I wouldn't give up this year's pick nine.
Dan Warna wrote:I dont see him as that much better than hackland.
I don't see him as much taller than Ackland. Charman is everything that Ackland could have been. He plays with 100% intensity all the time. He wins hitouts, despite his size, and directs his taps better than anyone we have at this club. He takes contested marks and uses the ball well. He's a number one ruckman, and a good one at that.
I wouldn't give up a top-10 pick for him though. I wouldn't give up Armo and I wouldn't give up this year's pick nine.
folks forget how good hackland was in his first year at teh club, there were high hopes for his long term form.
knobel was 'solid' in his first saeson and a half too.
Bewaire krime, da krimson bolt is comeing to yure nayborhood to smach krime
I would be more interested to get Seaby to St Kilda.
We could offer something like this
Pick 9, Pick 27, Watts for Seaby, Pick 15
Charman is capable of playing some very good footy, but he is just as injury-prone as Kosi. Over the past 4 years he has been regarded as the best ruckman at Brisbane, but he has missed 34 games through that period and has strullged to ever be fully fit. I would definitely give up Pick 27 and a fringe player, but not pick 9. He is about equal with Kosi as a ruckman.
Dan Warna wrote:folks forget how good hackland was in his first year at teh club, there were high hopes for his long term form.
knobel was 'solid' in his first saeson and a half too.
It is amazing how history changes once you repeat them a few times.
Ackland was ok in 2005. He was regarded as a possible backup ruckman to Kosi in case Brooks didn't come up. No one thought he was a great player, just a GOP.
Knobel did nothing until 2004 (his fifth season) when he did a reasonable job of crashing into the opposition ruckman and bringing the ball to ground. He was still bagged by many for not getting enough of the ball, having poor ruckwork and just having no influence on the game.
When Charman is fit, he has a big impact. He is pretty good in ruck contests, but does his best work around the ground. He's a strong mark, has a real physical presence and has the skills to be an effecive link-man (as well as marking target). He would be in the top 6 ruckmen in the comp when fit and firing. The only problem is that he misses too much footy.
Dan Warna wrote:folks forget how good hackland was in his first year at the club
I'm not one of them. I was one of the few people on here who was saying I would rather have Ackland than most of the guys we were rucking this year. I copped some abuse for saying I'd prefer him to Rix, but I wonder now if more preople would be inclined to agree with me on that one.
With that said, Ackland at his best has never been anywhere close to Charman. Charman is a genuine number one ruckman. Ackland is not, has never been and never will be. He proved that over the last two years when he had every chance to secure the number one ruck role at two different clubs.
MSG I don't think Charman is an equal ruckman as Kosi. I agree on the injury front though, but talking strictly in the centre bounces and boundary throw ins, I think Charman is much better, though I don't know how the stats stack up. If Charman is the equal of kosi in the ruck wouldnt it be pointless getting him? (unless your thinking play kosi at FF).
season 2005
Player MT K H D Avg M Avg HO Avg T Avg FF FA G Avg B SC Rat Avg
Cain Ackland 22 140 99 239 10.9 75 3.4 289 13.1 19 0.9 36 25 12 0.5 2 74 1243 56.5
hacklands season 2005 was comparable with pretty much everyones except everitt and cox who are far and away the premier ruckmen
Bewaire krime, da krimson bolt is comeing to yure nayborhood to smach krime
I would be very happy to see Jamie at St.Kilda. I went to school with him and not only is he a good footballer he is a good person which is what I want in Saints.
He would be a good to great ruck and a good to great midfielder. Plus a goal or two a game on top.
I think he may be worth a first round if injuries stay away but that is impossible to predict. Maybe a complex trade in which we give away pick 9 but get a lower pick at the 10-14 or so mark. Plus a player etc. Whats Brisbanes round 1 pick? and 2? Maybe a three way etc may be possible.
I don't understand peoples fear of loosing our first round draft pick. How many lemons haveteams picked up with first round picks yet there are more than a few good to great later pick players. First pick doesn't mean greatness. It is the player selection and development that matters.
But is Jamie out of contract? Does he want to leave? Will he leave his business (male day spa) too?
I would rather Warnock or Griffin, Griffin shouldn't be that hard to get due to Adelaide's ruck stock especially with Biglands back next year and Meesan developing nicely, I believe that they would trade our 2nd round pick for their second round pick aswell as Brooks for him, so it would be something like pick 25 and brooks for pick 28 and Griffin, I don't think that would be too bad for us.
Similar deal with Warnock, however seeing as we finished higher than Fremantle it would be harder to negotiate the picks.
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
st.mart wrote:You DO NOT trade first round draft picks in this day and age.......keep the quality coming through the bottom, the top takes care of itself
st.mart wrote:You DO NOT trade first round draft picks in this day and age.......keep the quality coming through the bottom, the top takes care of itself
so you wouldn't trade our first pick for Judd?
before this year, I would trade our first 3 picks for judd.
at the end of this year, if he does have OP and we will basically see Judd as luke ball, so no to a no.1 draft pick unless we can be assured that surgery or some other technique will return a Chris Judd prior to his mid season injury.
Bewaire krime, da krimson bolt is comeing to yure nayborhood to smach krime
Dan, you're usually on the money but Charman is five times the player that Ackland was at his best.
Good points all round, I wouldn't trade No.9, Charman has had injury concerns (& suspensions) but would be great for us for the obvious reasons. He had a fantastic year & I'd be very careful looking purely at stats to weigh a player's worth. Charman uses his body to crash packs & physically work over other ruckmen (like a modern day Lazar).
I really like the look of Warnock from Freo but I'm not sure as to his contract details. He looks like being behind Sandilands for a fair while so hopefully we might be able to sway him like they unsuccessfully tried to get Cox before Gardiner fell away.
st.mart wrote:You DO NOT trade first round draft picks in this day and age.......keep the quality coming through the bottom, the top takes care of itself
Animal Enclosure wrote:Dan, you're usually on the money but Charman is five times the player that Ackland was at his best.
Good points all round, I wouldn't trade No.9, Charman has had injury concerns (& suspensions) but would be great for us for the obvious reasons. He had a fantastic year & I'd be very careful looking purely at stats to weigh a player's worth. Charman uses his body to crash packs & physically work over other ruckmen (like a modern day Lazar).
I really like the look of Warnock from Freo but I'm not sure as to his contract details. He looks like being behind Sandilands for a fair while so hopefully we might be able to sway him like they unsuccessfully tried to get Cox before Gardiner fell away.
I know stats dont tell the whole story.
for that matter knobel was very good for us despite being smashed in the bloodbath against Brisbane in 03 I think it was.
hackland was very good for us in 05 before falling away in 06.
Bewaire krime, da krimson bolt is comeing to yure nayborhood to smach krime
st.mart wrote:You DO NOT trade first round draft picks in this day and age.......keep the quality coming through the bottom, the top takes care of itself
Yes agree...you do not trade your first pick...
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LTN16 wrote:I would only draft young 18yr old Ruckmen and would not trade away our 1st Round draft pick.
Try and develop some of our own Ruckmen insted of wasting draft picks on duds from other clubs.
Who's a dud?
B.Brooks
Has played 1 good AFL game in how many years ??
But wasn't Brooks only 19 years old when we went for him, a year after he was picked in the 2001 SuperDraft?
(Don't get me wrong. I was furious when we drafted him - I never rated him...and only coughed up the money below hoping fan responsibility would lead him to deliver on our sizable outlay)
LTN16 wrote:I would only draft young 18yr old Ruckmen and would not trade away our 1st Round draft pick.
Try and develop some of our own Ruckmen insted of wasting draft picks on duds from other clubs.
Who's a dud?
B.Brooks
Has played 1 good AFL game in how many years ??
But wasn't Brooks only 19 years old when we went for him, a year after he was picked in the 2001 SuperDraft?
(Don't get me wrong. I was furious when we drafted him - I never rated him...and only coughed up the money below hoping fan responsibility would lead him to deliver on our sizable outlay)
I really hope he can prove me wrong if he still is at St Kilda next year but I can’t see that happening.
