Deal to get Charman

[maverick]

Give the Lions pick 9 and 43 (3rd rounder) for Charman and the Lions pick 26 (2nd rounder).

Leaves us with a quality ruckman and two second round picks.

What do we think, too much?

We can't go into next season hoping Gardiner will be OK and rely on Rix and Blake to partner Kosi, we just can't.

[Saint Bev]

Charman is not leaving the Lions, so its a bit hard to do a deal.

[Dan Warna]

pick 9 for charman NEVER

[Stephen Theodore]

Charman would be extremely handy, but certainly not a no.9 pick. Second round pick, maybe, first round, no way known.

[riccardo]

I'd do that, very much so.

But would the Brions deal?

[HarveysDeciple]

We must keep our first round draft pick......must.

[CURLY]

Only two ruckman in the comp worth a top ten pick Cox and Leunberger all the rest are injury prone or have had one or two seasons at best or are past it.

[rodgerfox]

Really, what is Charman going to offer?

I don't quite get the obsession (probably Robert Walls driven) with ruckmen.

Who was the last ruckman to win a Brownlow?

Darren Jolly and Jason Ball are the Swans ruckmen. Both, very run of the mill players - Jolly below average.

He played against Cox in the Granny last year, and they were only rolled by a point.

Everitt is considered the best tap ruckman easily in the comp, yet his arrival at Sydney has made no difference to their position - infact they've gone backwards.

Sure, if you can get a good ruckman it's great but I hardly thin it's the 'be all and end all'. And, there simply aren't many really good ruckman around. The only one who will really kill you is Cox these days.

We got Clarke, who some think is still a brilliant tap ruckman - but it didn't mean squat to us.

It's overrated.

[aussiejones]

Wasn't that Grant Thomas's view also ..... Was he right all along ?

Isnt it more important to get the ball away than the actual tap receive ?

Quick mid fielders negate a ruck.

[SaintWodonga]

Don't trade our 1st round pick. Not worth it.

[evertonfc]

Our second round pick, about #25, is likely to be the best we could offer for an out-of-contract, want-away 25-year-old ruckman (who admitedly is very good and I would LOVE to have him).

It wasn't a bad call in the opening post, but like most others, I'd like to keep our first round pick. You've been unfairly battered by other posters; the whole idea behind trading is to reach a compromise...

[rodgerfox]

Wasn't that Grant Thomas's view also ..... Was he right all along ?

Isnt it more important to get the ball away than the actual tap receive ?

Quick mid fielders negate a ruck.

Kind of.

GT thought very highly of ruckman and tried to get several to the club.

What he was misquoted and misrepresented in saying was, that he didn't rate bad ruckmen. Ones he could hold their own in the centre square but then left you playing 1 short.

I sort of agree. It's just that I think the concept of a ruckman being the difference between failure and success for us is wrong.

Dean Cox could be the difference.

Jamie Charman? No way.

Any other ruckman currently in the comp? No.

I just don't think there are many good ones around.

Therefore, to have a great one would be a big advantage, but to not have a great one isn't a huge disadvantage against 15 clubs.


Having said that, West Coast have Cox plus easily the best midfield in the comp. Yet lost a GF to Sydney with two average rucks and a pretty pedestrian midfield.

So, really how much value do they add?

[fingers]

No.

Let's at least get someone who will give us some upside and some real return. Not just a couple of years of mediochre service.

[stinger]

we are a bit different to your average forum footy fan ......they always want to exchange bolied lollies for chocholate......we, on the other hand want to give a bag of gold for a sack of crap.........

[busso mick]

Really, what is Charman going to offer?

I don't quite get the obsession (probably Robert Walls driven) with ruckmen.

Who was the last ruckman to win a Brownlow?

Darren Jolly and Jason Ball are the Swans ruckmen. Both, very run of the mill players - Jolly below average.

He played against Cox in the Granny last year, and they were only rolled by a point.

Everitt is considered the best tap ruckman easily in the comp, yet his arrival at Sydney has made no difference to their position - infact they've gone backwards.

Sure, if you can get a good ruckman it's great but I hardly thin it's the 'be all and end all'. And, there simply aren't many really good ruckman around. The only one who will really kill you is Cox these days.

We got Clarke, who some think is still a brilliant tap ruckman - but it didn't mean squat to us.

It's overrated.

I think ruckman can play a huge part in the success of a team. Cox is a standout but have a look at the Roos this year and they have got quality in the ruck - McIntosh, Hale and Petrie to fill in. McIntosh could easily go AA this year, and is a major reason behind their top 4 finish.

You are right that you can survive without a decent one, but see how well the Eagles go without Cox if he is crook. It's what else they do apart from ruckwork, McIntosh and Cox go well around the ground and can take a pack mark and kick goals. In our case Clarke and Rix do nothing else apart from tapwork - that is the real difference and where we need to improve.

[evertonfc]

Let's cut through the crap here.

A good ruckman is vitally important to any team. No, it's not the most important position. However, St Kilda has been carved up time and again by good ruckmen in recent years, and it's time we addressed it.

It would also help our midfield, which needs all the help it can get.

GT did rate ruckman - it's bad myth that he didn't (he recruited three of them) - he just didn't like crap ones. A bad ruckman was like losing a player to him, which is why he often played Blake as a back-up ruck.

So, should we go for Charman? Yes, if he's available at a fair and reasonable price. Our second round pick, given what I stated above (seemingly wants out, is 25 and out-of-contract) would be exactly that.

There's potentially eight years of good service (6-7 as a first choice ruckman) there, so we should be chasing his signature.

[Mr Magic]

Let's cut through the crap here.


GT did rate ruckman - it's bad myth that he didn't (he recruited three of them) - he just didn't like crap ones. A bad ruckman was like losing a player to him, which is why he often played Blake as a back-up ruck.

I've heard him say it over and over again.

WHat he said was he didn't rate 'dinosaur ruckmen' - those that just did tapwork and very little else around the ground.

With regards to Charman, from what I have read he appears very settled in his business life on the Gold Coast and would be very unlikely to leave.

It may be what we are seeing is just pure posturing on behalf of his manager to try and get the best deal he can from Brisbane?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Charman would be an awesome addition to the Saints... he'd actually be the player a lot of people seem to think Gardiner will.

If Charman didn't have the very common history of injury, I'd be happy to give up a first rounder for him. A top ten pick I hesitate, in full view of the reality that if he is available and we don't offer that first round pick, someone else probably will offer a better pick than our second, and combining our 2nd and 3rd does not equate to a low first.

If Charman's up for grabs, it's probably pick #9 or bust. Hindsight will make a genious or villain the decisionmaker.

[Gehrigs_son]

over my dead body we give away pick 9 for charman

it would have to be a far bloody sick player to even think about given away pick 9

[sackers5]

pardon my ignorance, but could somebody explain to me how we finished eigth last year and had pick 9 and we finished 9th this year and still have pick 9, obviously it has something to do with priority picks, but wasnt Gibbs a priority pick last year?

[Dan Warna]

1 carlton
2 richmond
3 carlton
4 melbourne
5
6
7
8
9 St kilda

last year I dont think there was a priority pick was there?

[saintbrat]

last years priority pick was end of first round? or was that the year before .

[maverick]

When analysing this deal, we do realise we give away 16 places in the draft and a 3rd round pick here, we are not simply just givinig up a first rounder.

If dropping 16 odd places is too much fair enough, but just look at the whole deal, we gain a second round pick.

Pick 9 is not that high.

Charman is an aggressive big bodied ruck who can split packs and provide a presence we so severely lack on the ground.

Does Judd, Cousins and Kerr make Cox or does Cox make them?

[midas_touch]

last year I dont think there was a priority pick was there?

Priority picks were after the first round last year since this was the first year of the 'revised' priority pick rules where u had to win less than 5 games two years in a row to get a priority pick before the first round.

As for Charman, trading away pick 9 would be simply suicide. One second round pick at most is what we should offer for him.

[Dan Warna]

I dont see him as that much better than hackland.

as someone else said there are 2 or 3 very good ruckmen still left (darcy gone, clarke gone, King gone)

cox and spider are the full deal.

white and fraser are in the mould of jim stynes, clarke keating smashed fraser yet fraser had 20 possessions in the 2003 GF and keating had like 6 or 7, but he's finished now.

Mccintosh is coming good after 4 or 5 seasons of development.

really the rest are pretty much the same.

when hackland came to st kilda it was the promise of a young mobile ruckman who can kick a few goals and compete with a big body type.

when knobel came to st kilda it was the promise of a young power ruckman who can smash opposition ruckman with a big tank.

when Brooks came to st kilda it was a young high leaping, high marking ruckman who can do everything.

a couple of seasons ago we were MAD to not chase brogan.

a couple of seasons ago we were MAD to not chase Lade.

face it ruckmen like Cox and Spider are NOT the norms for talent.