Trade Bait

[JeffDunne]

Teams in the NFL don't need to trade like they once did because of a robust free agency system. Only days from the start of the regular season and teams are still trading & signing free agents. It's a world away from what we have here. We also don't have team owners meddling in the affairs of football decisions.

Anyhow, it's hardly relevant to compare the two because our system has been designed specifically to make players movements difficult. The AFL believe forced player/club loyalty is a good thing. Not sure I'd agree but it is what it is. It is also why I think AFL supporters speculating on all manner of trades is a waste of time. They simply don't happen and that's becoming more so as the draft system gets more sophisticated. Clubs simply won't risk a bad trade for fear of looking the dill.

[Otiman]

Trade Milne for 2nd round pick or a young small forward.

[evertonfc]

I know it might be seen as accepting mediocrity..but surely loyalty works both ways. Our elite players have stuck by the Club, shunning million dollar offers from other Clubs. Surely the least we can do is keep them off the trade table.

Dont know how specific you were trying to be by using dal as an example, but hes locked away too God bless him

If the Club even thought about trading an uncontracted star like Kosi or dal..Id be furious. Yes I support the Club above all else, but putting "loyalty" in your motto surely counts for something.

I've lost a lot of the 'loyalty' sentiment in footy. I see too many players who are in it for themselves (fair enough - it's a job for them) and not for the club.

Players don't loves clubs like supporters do. Only a very, very select few do. True, you need to try and keep them, but they are still commodities (an awful term) capable of getting you a better end result at trade week.

I want premierships more than anything now. If we cobbled together a bunch of 29-year-old journeymen and they won two of the next three flags, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Check 1975 and 1977

Loyalty is an extremely important quality. But there is a line.

[Dan Warna]

Trade Milne for 2nd round pick or a young small forward.

yep lets get another small forward who averages a shade under 2 goals a game and 2 goal assists a game or 20% of the teams goals for the past 5 or 6 seasons.



possibly only farmer has been the most consistent goal scoring / goal assisting durable small forward in the past 5 or 6 years.

basically our no.3 goal scorer behing gehrig and Reiwoldt.

[Unforgiven]

No way should we get rid of Milne though it's a frustrating stat reading that he hasn't kicked more than 2 goals a game since his 11 goal match or what ever. I'd rather the Milne that would kick 0 one week and 5 the next. 1 or 2 goals ever now or then is good i guess, also Milne does set up a lot.

[Brewer]

I've lost a lot of the 'loyalty' sentiment in footy. I see too many players who are in it for themselves (fair enough - it's a job for them) and not for the club.

Players don't loves clubs like supporters do. Only a very, very select few do. True, you need to try and keep them, but they are still commodities (an awful term) capable of getting you a better end result at trade week.

I think this is an inevitable symptom of having a salary cap. Clubs have to be a bit more ruthless with their list, and it cuts both ways - you can't expect devoted loyalty from a player that you're likely to cut loose when operational circumstances dictate.

Another effect of salary caps is that they make fans more acutely aware of the limitations of a payroll, and therefore more prone to judging players harshly for whatever % they happen to occupy.

Footy players are guns for hire - some will exhibit loyalty towards a team (and I'd say we've been relatively lucky in that respect) but they have every right to just work for the highest bidder if they choose.

[Dan Warna]

I've lost a lot of the 'loyalty' sentiment in footy. I see too many players who are in it for themselves (fair enough - it's a job for them) and not for the club.

Players don't loves clubs like supporters do. Only a very, very select few do. True, you need to try and keep them, but they are still commodities (an awful term) capable of getting you a better end result at trade week.

I think this is an inevitable symptom of having a salary cap. Clubs have to be a bit more ruthless with their list, and it cuts both ways - you can't expect devoted loyalty from a player that you're likely to cut loose when operational circumstances dictate.

Another effect of salary caps is that they make fans more acutely aware of the limitations of a payroll, and therefore more prone to judging players harshly for whatever % they happen to occupy.

Footy players are guns for hire - some will exhibit loyalty towards a team (and I'd say we've been relatively lucky in that respect) but they have every right to just work for the highest bidder if they choose.

yep shwartz on mebbe 150k was smashed by tarrant on 400k was condemned for it. really you need a comparable defender for skill ability and value to play, ie max, goose or similar.

schwartz should be playing on someone of comparable value and cost and skill, and there he comes into his own.

the reality is due to injuries, he, gwilt, etc played on players bigger, stronger, better skilled and better paid.

[Otiman]

Trade Milne for 2nd round pick or a young small forward.

yep lets get another small forward who averages a shade under 2 goals a game and 2 goal assists a game or 20% of the teams goals for the past 5 or 6 seasons.

Milne won't be around much longer, I'd much rather develop a new forward line without milne.

[Dan Warna]

Trade Milne for 2nd round pick or a young small forward.

yep lets get another small forward who averages a shade under 2 goals a game and 2 goal assists a game or 20% of the teams goals for the past 5 or 6 seasons.

Milne won't be around much longer, I'd much rather develop a new forward line without milne.

so we kick milne off for a round 2 pick or a round 3 pick or even just a vacancy at round 4 and draft a kid who may take 4 seasons to develop...

with the retirements we have enough room in our team to draft a kid and develop without ditching milne.

and a late round 2 pick or equivalent player....

anyone you can think of at 19/20/21 who is better performed than milne who would be a comparable trade?

[evertonfc]

I hope to God it's not John Barker who's developing that forward line, Otiman.

How the hell he landed a job at St Kilda, well...I was very surprised at the time and remain none the wiser to this day. He always struck me as rather clueless on the football field and survived on the size of his body, not his brain. He never seemed to play 'smart' footy.

However, one time in 2001, a TV pundit was trying to be creative and said that Barker had a good 'football brain' - a la Lance Whitnall - and the tag stuck.

[Dan Warna]

I hope to God it's not John Barker who's developing that forward line, Otiman.

How the hell he landed a job at St Kilda, well...I was very surprised at the time and remain none the wiser to this day. He always struck me as rather clueless on the football field and survived on the size of his body, not his brain. He never seemed to play 'smart' footy.

However, one time in 2001, a TV pundit was trying to be creative and said that Barker had a good 'football brain' - a la Lance Whitnall - and the tag stuck.

whitnalls head does look like a football.

[milney044]

I'm the first to worry about Milne being traded each year but personally even i think he's pretty safe this year. he is contracted and has kicked 30+ goals in the lowest scoring side this year. Plus i just cant see Ross letting him go after taking him off the trade table last year, plus he seems to be pretty happy with him having selected him for all 22 games.
Also, he has kicked over 2 goals since his 11 straight - he's kicked 3 now and again!

Personally i cant see us being very active in the trade this year, to gain quality players from other clubs, you have to trade quality of your own, which is why i cant see it happening. We would not gain anything beneficial if we traded a Milne, Raph or X. This is why there are so little trades each year- a club wants more than it is prepared to give away.

[JeffDunne]

It's always amazed me how someone could be described as having a 'good football brain' when after 10 years in the caper they still need to be sent away mid season to a fat farm.

IMO, the description is football's equivalent to saying "but they have a good personality".

[Brewer]

I think Milney has improved constantly this year - his spectacular errors are becoming a lot rarer and he is putting in a lot of good work all over the ground, delivering to other players as well as kicking his own.

Considering the positions he has played this year, ie spending a fair bit of time away from the sticks, his tally belies his true contribution IMO.

Milney has to stay, he is too good and getting better all the time.

[Dan Warna]

I think Milney has improved constantly this year - his spectacular errors are becoming a lot rarer and he is putting in a lot of good work all over the ground, delivering to other players as well as kicking his own.

Considering the positions he has played this year, ie spending a fair bit of time away from the sticks, his tally belies his true contribution IMO.

Milney has to stay, he is too good and getting better all the time.

milne is not a great midfielder, he is not a great tagger, he is a dangerous forward pocket, however given the change in our game plan he spends far less time in the forward line than any season before.

as such to return 30 odd goals and 50 odd goal assists is pretty good.

[mad saint guy]

as such to return 30 odd goals and 50 odd goal assists is pretty good.

50 goal assists? I rate Milne and think he should have at least 2 more good years in him, but his goal assist tally would be more like 10. Maybe 18-20 score assists with 10 converted into goals. If he had 50 goal assists then he would be the best small forward in the competition by an absolute mile.

[vacuous space]

Like I said in another thread, his kicking technique and his tackling are a concern. And yes, I'm aware he had four tackles on the weekend, but if they kept track of who had the most missed tackles milne would be right up there. His kicking efficiency is below the 70% mark which is awful, especially considering that every goal and behind he kicked is counted as effective. He drops the ball from head height on the run, and you never know where it's going to go.

All that makes me wonder whether somebody else, if put in his position, couldn't do a better job. It amazes me that we didn't try anybody else in that role all year. I don't think he's good enough or consistent enough to be an automatic selection.

[plugger66]

Like I said in another thread, his kicking technique and his tackling are a concern. And yes, I'm aware he had four tackles on the weekend, but if they kept track of who had the most missed tackles milne would be right up there. His kicking efficiency is below the 70% mark which is awful, especially considering that every goal and behind he kicked is counted as effective. He drops the ball from head height on the run, and you never know where it's going to go.

All that makes me wonder whether somebody else, if put in his position, couldn't do a better job. It amazes me that we didn't try anybody else in that role all year. I don't think he's good enough or consistent enough to be an automatic selection.

We have no one to play in that position. No one does it at Casey so he has the spot until we get someone who can kick more goals and assist in more than Milney and there isnt to many in the AFL.

[Brewer]

Whichever way you cut it, Milne is pretty good value for money. We wouldn't be paying him that much and if he puts in the effort each week, makes our opponents pay for a few errors, sets up a few goals and scores 2+ of his own, I'll take that at this stage. I don't think we would get more for him than he is worth to us, and I remain confident that he is only getting better as he matures and makes better decisions.

If only all of our players were as handy...

[spert]

If you want to build a premiership team for 2008 and beyond, you need a mixture of skill, strength and team players, you cant afford to have hot and cold players, chronically injured players who come in and out of the side -too destabilising. I can't see the following players contributing to a premiership and could be traded or delisted:
XClarke (injury prone)
Milne (not good enough-selfish)
Ball (injury prone-too slow)
Max (injury prone)
Hammill (injury prone)
Goose (one dimensional and undisciplined)

There's no place for all this loyalty talk, we want a flag, otherwise we have a lot of back-slapping, she'll be right mate stuff while we're in the wrong half of the ladder at season's end.

[plugger66]

If you want to build a premiership team for 2008 and beyond, you need a mixture of skill, strength and team players, you cant afford to have hot and cold players, chronically injured players who come in and out of the side -too destabilising. I can't see the following players contributing to a premiership and could be traded or delisted:
XClarke (injury prone)
Milne (not good enough-selfish)
Ball (injury prone-too slow)
Max (injury prone)
Hammill (injury prone)
Goose (one dimensional and undisciplined)

There's no place for all this loyalty talk, we want a flag, otherwise we have a lot of back-slapping, she'll be right mate stuff while we're in the wrong half of the ladder at season's end.

Good post. Others I would trade or delist are Hayes, Rooy and see if we can a both 4th or 5th round for Harvs. I especially like the idea of getting rid of Hayes and Rooy because if Ball goes as well we will have no captain so we can get Brooks to do it as you are retaining him.

[milney044]

Does anyone actually know where i can find stats on assist by player per season? It would be interesting to know, its a stat that i rate highly yet is not often recognised.
And for the record, Milne is not a selfish player, the times he is perceived as this is because he's being creative and its something we've really lacked this year. Apart from watching Frase i found us to be boring this year and last, now that he's gone i dont know where im going to get my excitement. Dal, Gram, Roo and perhaps Gilbert will do the odd thing now and then but personally i dont think we took enough risks or created unpredectability this year. When Milne shows his magic he gets shut down for being selfish, what's so bad about having a bit of individuality? It doesnt pay off every time, sure, but when it does not only is it effective but it really helps lift the team. Just watch our players celebrate when Frase kicks one of his trade mark goals on the run.

[The_Dud]

the crap Milne cops sometimes is ridiculous

he is not selfish, he is not a bad kick, even tho he might not have the most traditional kicking technique, and he's our 3rd highest goal kicker, and with Gehrig gone, hes even more important to our team

he's not going anywhere, nor should he