Talk says Burke to take on Butterss

[JeffDunne]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/t ... 38413.html

THIS time last year, St Kilda's season ended not with a whimper but a bang when it limped out of the finals in week one and almost immediately sacked its coach Grant Thomas.

The reasons for Thomas' sacking were largely personal and it was imperative that some of the behaviour that so irked the board leak out in a bid to win the public relations war against a larger-than-life character who made it clear at the announcement of his departure that he would not go quietly.

The board was also under pressure to get it right in choosing a successor, given that Thomas had made the finals three years in a row.

They chose a group of management consultants — Stride — whose directors included Ricky Ponting and Anthony Stevens, and looked at a long list of candidates. It ended up selecting a late entry suggested by one of its selection panel, Robert Walls. Essendon, too, has followed the Stride model in searching for a replacement for Kevin Sheedy.

Now the Saints have failed to make the finals for the first time in four years after sacking a coach who fell out with both the president and the rest of the board. It was a sacking St Kilda supporters did not see coming and whether or not you agree with the decision a year ago, it does not look good for the board now.

Having listened to both sides of the Thomas affair, the decision, on balance, was the right one. Unfortunately, the personal fall-out continues and as soon as tomorrow there is every chance Thomas will make good his threat to officially sue the club for more money. Surely that mess should never have come to this.

There are plenty of reasons why St Kilda will not play again this season and the blame should not be solely or even mainly directed at Ross Lyon.

Yesterday, Lyon's close friend and assistant coach Stephen Silvagni said his team should be judged on the second half of the season, during which it won seven of its last 11 games. Clearly injuries proved a significant obstacle and it is clear that a major reassessment took place during the mid-year break. The team also needed a ruckman and while Michael Gardiner did not prove to be the ticking time bomb he was at West Coast, nor did he manage a senior game.

Lyon did not sell himself as well as he could have at times, but again, he improved with time and perhaps the club could have helped him more in that area early on. The feeling from the club is that internal divisions have disrupted the season. At times, the forest was hidden by trees. Favourite sons are said to be moving in to take on the Butterss regime and Nathan Burke's name is among them.

The Thomas-Butterss feud was inflamed publicly by the president in June. The impression is that "jobs for the boys" continues to pervade the St Kilda mindset. One big sponsor indicated at the end of June it would not be renewing its deal with the club, although the board insists that vacancy is already in hand.

If Butterss is challenged — and the indication is he will be — the president will reasonably point to the successive million-dollar profits he has achieved over recent years when there was every chance early in his tenure that the club would be forced to turn to the AFL for special assistance.

Questions will be asked about how the club has been forced to compromise and cut costs in order to achieve such a successful bottom line. The club's resources must be expanded. It seems remarkable after all St Kilda's injury problems over so many years and so many "training services" changes that it took until 2007 to attempt a thorough sports science review.

Rightly or wrongly, none of this would have been written today had Collingwood won on Friday night and the Saints reached the finals. Football can be fickle at times and supporters care little about off-field deals and profits and medical resources when you're winning.

But Butterss and his supporters knew that once the Saints' season was over — particularly if its coach of choice failed to lead his new team into the finals — that it would have a battle on its hands.

The rumblings should become a reality soon. The challengers, if they are serious, should put their hands up or go away. Then we will learn what both sides are truly made of.

The Thomas-Butterss feud was inflamed publicly by the president in June. The impression is that "jobs for the boys" continues to pervade the St Kilda mindset. One big sponsor indicated at the end of June it would not be renewing its deal with the club, although the board insists that vacancy is already in hand.

If Butterss is challenged — and the indication is he will be — the president will reasonably point to the successive million-dollar profits he has achieved over recent years when there was every chance early in his tenure that the club would be forced to turn to the AFL for special assistance.

Questions will be asked about how the club has been forced to compromise and cut costs in order to achieve such a successful bottom line. The club's resources must be expanded. It seems remarkable after all St Kilda's injury problems over so many years and so many "training services" changes that it took until 2007 to attempt a thorough sports science review.

Rightly or wrongly, none of this would have been written today had Collingwood won on Friday night and the Saints reached the finals. Football can be fickle at times and supporters care little about off-field deals and profits and medical resources when you're winning.

But Butterss and his supporters knew that once the Saints' season was over — particularly if its coach of choice failed to lead his new team into the finals — that it would have a battle on its hands.

The rumblings should become a reality soon. The challengers, if they are serious, should put their hands up or go away. Then we will learn what both sides are truly made of.

[meher baba]

Drat, I knew someone else would post this while I was writing my effort. I'll post my comments again here and hope the mods close down the thread I opened.

Sub-text of this totally self-serving article is, methinks, that la Wilson has decided to bail out of the Butterss camp. The end of her article seems almost like a pep talk to the challengers: don't be timid, bring it on!!

Interesting to see Burkey's name mentioned. Clearly Cassius was right in disputing the line run by many on here that Burkey was anti-GT.

Gee she's a piece of work: according to her, the board made the right decision to sack GT but should now go because we didn't make the 8 and because RL is a bad communicator.

Meher Baba says: if you are travelling on a mountain pass and encounter a journo and a deadly snake at the same time, kill the journo first.

[JeffDunne]

I see Caro's out doing Rod's bidding again.

"The reasons for Thomas' sacking were largely personal " . . . but then . . . "the decision, on balance, was the right one".

But she at least touches on one the most important aspect of this whole sorry saga : "Questions will be asked about how the club has been forced to compromise and cut costs in order to achieve such a successful bottom line. The club's resources must be expanded. It seems remarkable after all St Kilda's injury problems over so many years and so many "training services" changes that it took until 2007 to attempt a thorough sports science review."

[meher baba]

I see Caro's out doing Rod's bidding again.

"The reasons for Thomas' sacking were largely personal " . . . but then . . . "the decision, on balance, was the right one".

But she at least touches on one the most important aspect of this whole sorry saga : "Questions will be asked about how the club has been forced to compromise and cut costs in order to achieve such a successful bottom line. The club's resources must be expanded. It seems remarkable after all St Kilda's injury problems over so many years and so many "training services" changes that it took until 2007 to attempt a thorough sports science review."

See my post above: she's not doing Rod's bidding, she's clearly stirring up trouble. Supporting Rod would have taken the form of a season review article talking up our chances for 2008.

[JeffDunne]

Drat, I knew someone else would post this while I was writing my effort.

Great minds think alike.

BTW, I agree with your comments.

[JeffDunne]

MB, I have no doubt Caro has been speaking to the same person that has been leaking information to her in the past and it is where Burkie's name has come from. At lest she's now prepared to admit the leaks.

It is typical of the snake running the club to attempt to paint a club legend as somehow disloyal because he may support a challenge. Divide and conquer.

I think it's also pathetic our coaching staff are hanging their hat on performances in the second half of the season. If that's their measure of success then they are kidding themselves and trying to do a snowjob on supporters.

[kaos theory]

I think it's also pathetic our coaching staff are hanging their hat on performances in the second half of the season. If that's their measure of success then they are kidding themselves and trying to do a snowjob on supporters.

For f**ks sake, we had the worst injury list in yrs for the first half of the season. We had 23 to 25 players to choose from over a period of 4 games in the first half. GT didn't have that in his sucessful yrs. We had only 4 players that played every game this yr. That is probably the worst in the afl this season. Also we had one of our worst pre-season.

On top of that, a new coach come in with new structures and styles in implement.

[JeffDunne]

Ok, that's an excuse for the first half of the season . . . what's their excuse for the second half?

[kaos theory]

Ok, that's an excuse for the first half of the season . . . what's their excuse for the second half?

There were dissapointments (dogs, & pies games), but some good things as well. Overall, need to see RL once he has had change to
1. run a full pre-season,
2. oversee drafts & trades the way he would like to,
3. and a full 2nd season,

before drawing any meaningful conclusions on his results....

[Mr Magic]

Ok, that's an excuse for the first half of the season . . . what's their excuse for the second half?

Rod Butters?

[JeffDunne]

kaos, where have I potted Ross Lyon?

FFS, can people please stop with the moronic assumptions?

Ross has been a victim of our mis-management - not the reason for it.

[ausfatcat]

what has Burkey done since leaving the saints?

And I presume he may only be a board member it would be interesting who else is on the board challenge (about 5 Dick Pratts would be good). If it is a challenege with a lot of expertise in the field of business and financial knos and backing I will support it. If it isn't and it's just people pissed off with the current board i will not vote for them for the sake of a change.

[Oh When the Saints]

Burkey has been involved in a big way in the corporate leadership area ...


If he is involved, then I'm not too worried because he will totally have the best interests of the club at heart.

[The Fireman]

Fantastic, nothing like a bit of healthy off season destabilization to start the new season off, oh well getting used to it.

[meher baba]

MB, I have no doubt Caro has been speaking to the same person that has been leaking information to her in the past and it is where Burkie's name has come from. At lest she's now prepared to admit the leaks.

It is typical of the snake running the club to attempt to paint a club legend as somehow disloyal because he may support a challenge. Divide and conquer.

I think it's also pathetic our coaching staff are hanging their hat on performances in the second half of the season. If that's their measure of success then they are kidding themselves and trying to do a snowjob on supporters.

If Butterss is truly the source behind Caro's article, as you have insinuated, he needs to have his head examined. All the article does is to create a sense of destabilisation around the Board, and naming Burkey simply provides a figurehead for Butterss's opponents to rally around.

Divide and conquer is not a good tactic to try to use when your enemy is potentially in a stronger position than you are.

I still suspect that, like any untrustworthy journo, Caro is talking to a number of different sources - clearly including Butterss - and also throwing in a bit of stuff she has made up herself to create an intoxicating brew of trouble-making.

[barks4eva]

as soon as tomorrow there is every chance Thomas will make good his threat to officially sue the club for more money.

IF SO

This slimy svengali snakeoil salesman will be exposed for the fraud and charlatan that he is in relation to his" I love this club" and the so called "he bleeds red, white and black " that you hear repeatedly from the desciples of the gospels of Thomas

Thomas was paid 2.5 MILLION DOLLARS by this football club for his services and even had three all expenses paid overseas holidays disguised as training camps thrown in to the package

Thomas recieved ALL money that he was contractually obligated for

Thomas tried to negotiate $500,000 bonuses into his contract for premierships, probably an easy way to pay back the million dollars he borrowed from Butterss he would have no doubt thought at the time and the board relented by conceding a $500,000 bonus for two premierships not one but inserted a clause that his services could be terminated at any time with no financial payout.

Thomas's wrangling brought about this irregular contractual arrangement to begin with!

The board made a decision to pay Thomas money he was not contractually obligated to recieve as a settlement package IF he went quietly, and in the boards view he broke the conditions of this agreement and so therefore is not entitled to the extra hush money

We also hear of this money Thomas is now claiming, that he never had a holiday and wants $60,000 in holiday pay, if true then this is an outrageous claim

When you consider the sacrifices that so many footballers made to keep this club in existence by taking 22.5 cents in the dollar with the scheme of arrangement payments, Thomas trying to screw more money out of a football club after he has already recieved TWO and a HALF MILLION DOLLARS is galling in the extreme.

Thomas became coach through a farcical process, without any previous AFL coaching experience and was paid $500,000 a year straight up

Thomas should be grateful that he was paid more than what he should have been to begin with even aside from the dubious nature of his intial appointment

Also interesting to not, that back in the eighties when all these players were making huge financial sacrifices to keep the club in existence, that Thomas was not owed one cent and recieved all monies coming to him and then did a runner to North where he thought he could earn more money there

The only bleeding of red, white and black that Thomas does comes off the clubs bottomline

FAIR DINKUM and I do mean FAIR DINKUM

[JeffDunne]

Barks, you are the type of lemming our President loves.

[saintsRrising]

Interesting to see Burkey's name mentioned. Clearly Cassius was right in disputing the line run by many on here that Burkey was anti-GT.

Interesting connection made by you....that IF Burkey is part of the challenge group it has to because he was annoyed that GT was dismissed?????


If this is the lightweight reason for a Board Challenge then they would not get my vote.

What a pi** poor reason to run a challenge that would be.


The ONLY reason why a group shouldirun is because they believe that they have a plan to make the saints abetter run and more successul....


I will be looking for an alternate board with a spread of talent, with passion...and most of all a plan and vision of how the Saints can improve.


If all I see is a superficial "vengence is mine" motive then I will not vote for them and they will have my contempt.


butters has done some good things...some bad.....overall he has been ok.


But just as in selecting your best 22 ifa better and new recruit comes along he will displace someone.

This will be what I am looking at....will the alternate Board, if there is one....be better for the saints. If YES, then they get my vote.

[meher baba]

Hey B4E, you are getting far too ambiguous these days: now, please, tell us what you really think about GT.

[Life Long Saint]

Thomas became coach through a farcical process, without any previous AFL coaching experience and was paid $500,000 a year straight up

Thomas should be grateful that he was paid more than what he should have been to begin with even aside from the dubious nature of his intial appointment

Who is at fault that Thomas was (as you claim) paid $500k per season as an untried coach? What bunch of morons would pay that money for a coach that had not even done an apprenticeship?

I don't blame anyone for asking for that money...If your assertions are true (which I doubt as you have NEVER produced proof), then the men you should be directing your ranting tirades at are the board of the St Kilda Football Club.

I love the company that I work for too but I would not do the job that I do for less money nor would I be forgiving if I felt that I was let go unfairly or if I felt they owed me money.

Let Thomas take the club to court and IF the club owes him money, they should pay...If the club does not owe him anything and they win the court case, then Thomas should pay court costs too.

[HSVKing]

We had only 4 players that played every game this yr.

2 actually.

Blake and Fiora (Attard was the other until he was injured)

[SaintBot]

We had only 4 players that played every game this yr.

2 actually.

Blake and Fiora (Attard was the other until he was injured)

attard was dropped for a game before he was injured i think

and didnt dal santo play every game?

[SaintBot]

We had only 4 players that played every game this yr.

2 actually.

Blake and Fiora (Attard was the other until he was injured)

attard was dropped for a game before he was injured i think

and didnt dal santo play every game?

yep i just checked


kaos was correct

Blake, Fiora, Dal Santo and Milne played all games

[fonz_#15]

We had only 4 players that played every game this yr.

2 actually.

Blake and Fiora (Attard was the other until he was injured)

nope.

attard was dropped before that game, spent i think it was 2 weeks with the scorps.

Also correct me if i'm wrong but dal and milney have played every game this year as well.

[Dan Warna]

I would take anything carolyne wilson said as bollux.

she is a lying bitter snide cow who hates st kilda and she is a pathetic joke of a human being.

however if Burke is challenging the board, I would be interested in what he had to say and may consider voting for him.

I appreciate what RB has done and think he has been on the whole a positive president.