When did Starcevich leave? !!

Eastern · Post: # 444466Post **Eastern** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:21pm

Was it this past Christmas or was it 18 months ago? Interested to know as it could be part of the reason for our 2nd 1/2 fade outs !!

Eastern · Post: # 444474Post **Eastern** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:26pm

Bugga !!

No-one knows. I had a brilliant theory but am too scared that I will make an absolute fool of myself

!!

saintbrat · Post: # 444475Post **saintbrat** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:26pm

end of preseason 2007- basicly did not return after christmas/ new year break

new guy wasn't put in place till some time after.

don't know if it's been done but a list of players who DIDN't complete pre-season/ came in under done or injured during preseason.
Hayes
Maguire
Hudghton
Riewoldt
Hamill
X clarke
R Clarke
M Clarke- coming in after virtually retiring
Gardiner- pre existing
?
?

Oh When the Saints · Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:27pm

Towards the end of January 2007.

Peter Mulkearns being his replacement.

I believe Starcevich had the players on a pretty finely tuned programme, which was sort of mixed in with other stuff when Mulkearns arrived (not his fault)

Hence our terrible run of soft tissue injuries earlier in the year.

We seemed to have improved in this area since Mulkearns arrived ... he had a very good record with soft-tissue injuries at the Kangaroos and Carlton.

And North Melbourne were the best "close-game" team in the AFL from 1998 until about 2001 ... they had some ridiculously good record in tight matches.

So their fitness must have been okay ...

eppo67 · Post: # 444481Post **eppo67** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:30pm

I know Craig he is a top guy.

He left last past Xmas in fact it was a bit before. The reason he is left was that the Boss (ie. wife ) wouldn't move down to Melbourne. In fact Craig commuted up and down and never actually lived in Melbourne while he was our fitness coach.

He also told me that when he left Ball did not have OP. He also told me that he hopes he is wrong but he doesn't think Hamill will play again. The knee is bone on bone.

saintbrat · Post: # 444482Post **saintbrat** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:30pm

Eastern wrote:Bugga !!

No-one knows. I had a brilliant theory but am too scared that I will make an absolute fool of myself !!

you expect answer in 5 min when roo's on the telly?

Eastern · Post: # 444483Post **Eastern** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:33pm

Thanks Brat !!

My theory is that it was not just the guys who didn't do a full pre-season but if my memory serves me correctly, Starcevich was staying/going/staying/going for about 6-8 weeks. Most of that time he was in Brisbane sorting out his personal problems. Any programs he had were left to Andrew Weller ?? (our physio) to deliver/refine.

I believe that this is one of the main reasons that our fitness is at a level where it has been questioned lately.

We need to compare ourselves with the Kangas who sacked their conditioning guy at the end of last season and replaced him with one of his assistants. They got a full-long pre-season and look where they are now.

So it could be argued that ALL of our players had some sort of interuption to their pre-season !!

saintsRrising · Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:44pm

Eastern I think it is more that so many of our players were injured and could not train properly....

From memory

Hayes..knee
Ball ..groin...

Gram...not sure what he had..but has not been right

X..soft tissue
Raph ...soft tissue

Birss.....ankle???

Goose..broken leg...

etc etc

saintbrat · Post: # 444490Post **saintbrat** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 10:49pm

the Kanga's actually got player, AFLPA and League permission to begin their preseaosn about last Sept
did something like 2 weeks break then 2-4 weeks training then the rest of their break.

consistency of instruction would help- to have the same directions over more than one year- so they are building up over time.

Teflon · Post: # 444512Post **Teflon** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 11:37pm

eppo67 wrote:I know Craig he is a top guy.

He left last past Xmas in fact it was a bit before. The reason he is left was that the Boss (ie. wife ) wouldn't move down to Melbourne. In fact Craig commuted up and down and never actually lived in Melbourne while he was our fitness coach.

He also told me that when he left Ball did not have OP. He also told me that he hopes he is wrong but he doesn't think Hamill will play again. The knee is bone on bone.

well if Ball doesnt have OP what in gods name is/has been the problem?

asfor Hamill...whats new..

JeffDunne · Post: # 444516Post **JeffDunne** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 11:46pm

Luke Ball has admitted he has OP and I heard him on the weekend say it again. (SEN I think)

Was talking about how Judd has been in contact with him and he has the same problem as Luke. Said he has tried every non-surgical procedure and he 'might' have to have an operation at seasons end (sounded as though it's already been decided though).

IMO, if Collingwood lose Friday he should be pulled from the team and taken straight to have the operation if that's already been decided.

eppo67 · Post: # 444517Post **eppo67** » Mon 27 Aug 2007 11:48pm

Craig told me that his cardio capacity is quite small compared to Baker and Hayes. He said that is is very strong but his middle distance capacity is poor which means he struggles to get from contest to contest and when he does he is buggered.

Also what he said was that he didn't have OP when he left obviously he developes as the season proper goes on. Also said has been advised numerous times for an OP but refuses and does non surgical rehabs. Thinks he has tried them all and should have had the OP 2 seasons ago.

saintsRrising · Tue 28 Aug 2007 12:50am

eppo67 wrote:
Also said has been advised numerous times for an OP but refuses and does non surgical rehabs. Thinks he has tried them all and should have had the OP 2 seasons ago.

well that fits with the tone of what Luke Ball said on radio on Saturday....that he had tried all the non-surgical options but it was now time to go under the knife.

The way he said things I gained the impression that he was very reluctant to have the surgery, but was now resigned to it.

The UPSIDE of this is then hopefully that Ball will have some good chance of recapturing past form.

Otiman · Post: # 444548Post **Otiman** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 1:19am

saintsRrising wrote:The UPSIDE of this is then hopefully that Ball will have some good chance of recapturing past form.

I think there is even more upside than you say! After all of this chugging along in first gear, trying to get EVERYTHING out of his game to make an effort, having the reigns released would be an unleashing of epic proportions.

spert · Post: # 444583Post **spert** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 9:44am

All I can say is lets see what develops over summer with RL and his coaches settling in after the first year and with the players geting used to his style. I'm sure the fitness conditioning thing is very high on the priorities.

saintspremiers · Tue 28 Aug 2007 10:00am

If Collingwood loses and RL plays Ball he has seriously no clue!

plugger66 · Post: # 444604Post **plugger66** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 10:41am

saintspremiers wrote:If Collingwood loses and RL plays Ball he has seriously no clue!

Why would that be. What will a day rest do for Bally. Only shouldnt play if not in our best 22.

saintspremiers · Tue 28 Aug 2007 10:57am

plugger66 wrote:
saintspremiers wrote:If Collingwood loses and RL plays Ball he has seriously no clue!
Why would that be. What will a day rest do for Bally. Only shouldnt play if not in our best 22.

Because he has OP.

He can't play at his full potential.

Don't you think it is degrading to a player of Ball's ilk to have play at 50% week in week out?

I reckon the guy needs his operation and time away from footy....he's had a rough two years now and it's time for the knife and a re-start to his career.

It won't be a quick recovery from the operation I'd be thinking (based on having had surgery in that area myself), but perhaps he can get a month or perhaps two of pre-season and actually start 2008 in a close to full fitness state, working to full fitness mid-2008.

The earlier he moves on from 2007 the better.

Why wait another week?

....I'm thinking physologically, if you get my drift...yes, it's only a week - I understand your point!

spiral2 · Post: # 444636Post **spiral2** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 11:53am

didn't goose have the OP operation in 2005?
doesn't appear to have resurfaced since

anyone know of the downsides to the op? why would bally be so reluctant to have it?

stinger · Post: # 444664Post **stinger** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 12:32pm

i would think that if the filth lose...and that is on the cards......the crows, if they are anything ..are a tough, mature, hard bodied side, and they will belt the living suitcase out of the young collingwood side.....

...anyway, back on track.....if the filth lose, all the boys will want to play...as it maybe fraser's ...and banger's.... last game.....that's also provided banger comes up fit....

saintsRrising · Tue 28 Aug 2007 1:50pm

spiral2 wrote:didn't goose have the OP operation in 2005?
doesn't appear to have resurfaced since

anyone know of the downsides to the op? why would bally be so reluctant to have it?

**....some people do not like the thought of surgery...

** In addition if you have to undergo general anaesthetic there is always a risk....

** It will not be like having atooth out...the recouperation is likely to be very painful...

On perhaps prallel vein...evidently Judd does not like needles.......and has as vey painkiling jabs as possible...

Statsman · Post: # 444750Post **Statsman** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 2:33pm

Eastern wrote:My theory is that it was not just the guys who didn't do a full pre-season but if my memory serves me correctly, Starcevich was staying/going/staying/going for about 6-8 weeks. Most of that time he was in Brisbane sorting out his personal problems. Any programs he had were left to Andrew Weller ?? (our physio) to deliver/refine.

I believe that this is one of the main reasons that our fitness is at a level where it has been questioned lately.

Could our new game plan also be a factor? When we've been at our best in the first halves this season we've shown tremendous intensity, applied great pressure to the opposition, tackled with ferocity and generally ran them off their feet. This is not an easy style of play to maintain for a full four quarters. Therefore it seems to me to be a combination of our base fitness and our game plan. We may well be as fit as any other team, but not fit enough yet to maintain this new game plan for a full four quarters.

Shaggy · Post: # 444962Post **Shaggy** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 8:01pm

Statsman wrote: Could our new game plan also be a factor? When we've been at our best in the first halves this season we've shown tremendous intensity, applied great pressure to the opposition, tackled with ferocity and generally ran them off their feet. This is not an easy style of play to maintain for a full four quarters. Therefore it seems to me to be a combination of our base fitness and our game plan. We may well be as fit as any other team, but not fit enough yet to maintain this new game plan for a full four quarters.

Thats the view I hold. We had our hardest pre-season for years and back in Feb looked to be in the best shape we had been in for years in terms of injuries. But the game plan requires super stamina. Stamina is different to fitness and takes years to build up and players who are more sprinters than marathon runners will never be suited for the game plan regardless of how many pre-seasons they do.

spiral2 · Post: # 444974Post **spiral2** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 8:21pm

saintsRrising wrote:
spiral2 wrote: anyone know of the downsides to the op? why would bally be so reluctant to have it?
**....some people do not like the thought of surgery...

** In addition if you have to undergo general anaesthetic there is always a risk....

** It will not be like having atooth out...the recouperation is likely to be very painful...

more painful than on going OP and ability to perform at your best?

doesn't seem to add up...there must be bigger factors...loss of agility? long term probs? probs in later life? inability to horizontal mambo for a time?

Rickabee · Post: # 444985Post **Rickabee** » Tue 28 Aug 2007 8:58pm

spiral2 made the comment that I was going to make about Matty Maguire having the operation about two years ago and it seemed to certainly help him afterwards.

If anybody has any feedback from Matty about the after effects of the surgery that would be helpful to all of us.

Like most others here I just want to see Luke Ball play to to his potential once again. It just seems demeaning watching him play in the state he is currently in. Every time he lines up for goal more than 30 metres out you just know he is going to struggle with it.