Cheque book ready Saints

[bungiton]

Mark seaby is out of contract at the end of the year and is reported to be holding hopes of becoming a number one ruckman in his own right.

I think we should be doing everything in our power to coax him from the sinners to the Saints. Seaby has excelled as a backup to Cox, if we could entice him into the fold as our number one our matchday stocks would increase heaps, our midfield would get a boost from a guy that has helped feed one of the hungriest midfields in the comp, imagine the luxury of Kosi and Seaby swithing in a forward pocket.

Make it so Saints, make it so.

Sadly it would have to be done at the trade table as that Blue rabble would also seem to be after his services, depends how much we're prepared to lose to see how much we gain.

[True Blue Sainter]

Bungi why would the Blues be after him?? They have Ackland all tied up to a long term deal remember???

But Seaby would be an excellent acquisition. I'd strongly consider swapping a first rounder for him... A proven ruckman is one of the weaknesses in our side...Seaby would be a brilliant pick up.

[redwhite&blackblood]

Our first priority is signing Kosi to a acceptable deal. then we can go looking for midfielders with pace and a decent #1 ruckman under the age of 34.

[carn_sainter]

Lyon, for the next couple of years, seems very confident in Kosi/Gardiner and happy with rix/blake back ups with Van Rheenan in the pipelines

he wants runners and crumbers...not a ruck

and he is right

we don't need one

[True Blue Sainter]

Lyon, for the next couple of years, seems very confident in Kosi/Gardiner and happy with rix/blake back ups with Van Rheenan in the pipelines

he wants runners and crumbers...not a ruck

and he is right

we don't need one

I'm pretty sure we do. Kosi isn't and never will be a ruckman. Gardiner hasn't played consistent senior football for 4 years. Rix and Blake are not cut out to be number 1 ruckmen. Van Rheenan is developing and should get his chance in 2009.

[Unforgiven]

A reckon Seaby is slightly over rated. Though he would be a pretty good assest to our 22.

[carn_sainter]

if we had infinite resources, then he'd be alright (but seaby is nothing super special anyway)

point is: we don't...there is scarcity in footy and you gotta be smart with your precious resources...

a ruckman is not needed anywhere near as much as the runners and crumbers for us

our ruck stocks aren't that bad...

sure, they're not as good as cox...but whose are?

don't need a ruckman (if we're acknowledging the existence of this scarcity)

[Oh When the Saints]

How often is a game lost in the ruck?

More to the point, how often would having Seaby have won St Kilda a game in 2007?


The answer is never.


His price is too high for what you get. A first round draft pick can potentially yield a 200-game pacy midfielder.

Trading away that pick for Seaby gets you an average ruckman for 100 games.


Seaby is surrounded by the BEST midfield in the AFL and looks like an average player.

In the 4th or 5th best midfield in the AFL, he wouldn't be nearly as competent.


Seaby averages the same number of hitouts per game as Rix, and about 4 more disposals per match.


He not particulary effective with his ruckwork - no Spider Everitt or Doc Clarke there.


Basically, IMO you do not gain a huge amount in having Seaby ahead of Michael Rix.


Haven't we learnt our lesson over the past three years? You don't use draft picks on recycled GOP's who get cut three years later.

Draft the kids or fail as a club.


IMHO.

[bungiton]

How often is a game lost in the ruck?

More to the point, how often would having Seaby have won St Kilda a game in 2007?


The answer is never.

From recent memory how about friday night?

The eagles were hand fed center clearances, Cox absolutely belted us with taps staight down the throat of Cousins and Priddus, to say that the ruck had no bearing on the game is rather blinkered

[Oh When the Saints]

We beat the Eagles in the clearances.


Poor skill-level and missed chances at goal cost us the game.



Not Dean Cox.

[plugger66]

We beat the Eagles in the clearances.


Poor skill-level and missed chances at goal cost us the game.



Not Dean Cox.

I actually thought Dean Cox was clearly best on the ground. Only my opiniton.

[Oh When the Saints]

Cox was very good, but I thought Riewoldt, Priddis and Lynch had more influence on the outcome of the match.

[suss]

I actually thought Dean Cox was clearly best on the ground. Only my opiniton.

You're not wrong. Whilst we through away the game by way of a complete lack of resolve and composure he was definately b.o.g.

His dominance makes blokes like Priddis look good.

[Oh When the Saints]

Cox destroys Seaby in the intra-club matches.

Having Seaby is hardly going to allow us to better combat Cox in the ruck.


Especially at the cost of a 1st round pick.

[Unforgiven]

Seaby averages the same number of hitouts per game as Rix, and about 4 more disposals per match.



.

How much game time does he get compared to Rix and what is his % of hit outs to advantage? Those would be that stat into some more realistic context.

[Spinner]

We beat the Eagles in the clearances.


Poor skill-level and missed chances at goal cost us the game.



Not Dean Cox.

OWTS....Like so many others you seriously undervalue the worth of a quality ruckman.


Have a look at all the media personalitys that publicly state they dont rate ruckman.....THEY ARE ALL FORWRADS.

Then compare that to the media who rate ruckman as the most important position on the field. THEY WILL UNDOUBTABLY BE MIDFIELDERS.


You cant see a ruckman's value from the sidelines. Nor the forward line or backline. It is the midfielders that truely know the worth of a quality tapout.


You dont judge a quality ruckman by clearance statistics. Our midfield ALWAYS have to work beyond themselves compared to other teams. Stop looking at numbers. We were smashed in QUALITY CLEARANCES Friday night. This statistic deciding approach is growing old and out dated. Make an opinion on the game and not the numbers that come out the next day.

[Spinner]

And in other breaking news.


I DONT rate Seaby AT ALL.

[Oh When the Saints]

How much game time does he get compared to Rix and what is his % of hit outs to advantage? Those would be that stat into some more realistic context.

Rix averages around 40% gametime ... not sure what Seaby would average, but I suspect it would be more than that.

Seaby would have more hitouts to advantage ... but of 12 hitouts, you are only talking an extra 1-2 to advantage.

[Oh When the Saints]

etc.

I am exactly of the same opinion as GT on this issue.

I rate GOOD ruckmen.

Not ruckmen who can stand in the middle of the ground, get 30 hitouts and contribute 3 handballs in general play.

I rate Dean Cox, Brendon Lade and Justin Koschitzke.


I don't rate Darren Jolly or Matthew Clarke.


Or Mark Seaby.


Seaby is ineffective with the ball and his only strength around the ground is his occasional ability to take a strong grab.



If you asked me who I would take ... Darren Jolly who directly gives his midfielders 3-4 clearances which set up goals ... or Justin Koschitzke who kicks 3-4 goals himself ... I would take Kosi every day.


Seaby is a GOP, an average ruckman made to look good in a poor team.


He is over-rated, over-valued and not worth anything better than a 4th round pick.

[Unforgiven]

The stats look pretty and all that but I don't really take them into that high reguard. Seaby aint as good as everyone thinks, but I think he is a bit better than what your selling him for. Looking at past games Seaby doesn't get that much of a go, it's really the Cox show.

Seaby has stood up in games of the past from memory when Cox was wout to have 20+ hit out games(or there abouts).

I agree the price is too high(1st round draft pick). But Seaby is a far superior player than Rix and credits due where credit is due.

[Oh When the Saints]

He's better than Rix.

But fair dinkum ... if anyone thinks having Mark Seaby in our current side would have allowed us to win more games in 2007 ... then they are very far from the truth IMO.

[Otiman]

Haven't we learnt our lesson over the past three years? You don't use draft picks on recycled GOP's who get cut three years later.

Draft the kids or fail as a club.

This.

Don't trade for GOP's, unless it's in a birss/gardiner style trade like last year where we gave up basically nothing for 2 players.