Changes. Rd 21 !!

[luckysaint]

if the players that are deemed 'unlucky' haven't been given a chance by now, they won't ever be

[Dan Warna]

Of Birss 15 possessions 4 were clangers, TOG, 73%

as for CJ, let the club decide, but from what we've seen IMO he is in the side on potential only.

[meher baba]

Obviously CJ is more popular than I had thought. But posters should not delude themselves with the idea that we should be excited about him because of his "potential": he's actually older than Mark McGough FFS!!

I think everyone (including the selectors and Ross Lyon) should be careful when looking at CJ and Attard that they forget about where they came from and only concentrate on what they are able to do now in comparison with the other 36 or so players on our senior list.

People who go on about what "finds" Attard and CJ were, or how well they are going for unfashionable rejects from other clubs, etc, etc. sound to me a bit like people who go into serious credit card debt because there were all these bargains that they couldn't resist buying.

Nothing that Jones does on the playing field suggests to me that he is of AFL standard. Seriously, I thought McGough or Murray or Schwarze were a fair bit better.

[plugger66]

Ins will definatly be Ferguson, Kosi if fit and either Attard or CJ. Outs will be Harvey, Maxy and maybe M Clarke. they will not pick players who played yesterday unless there are more injuries than we hope for. They are not going to rest players and not give them a chance to shine for Scorps and not play those players first.

[saintsRrising]

Obviously CJ is more popular than I had thought. But posters should not delude themselves with the idea that we should be excited about him because of his "potential": he's actually older than Mark McGough FFS!!

.

I am not considering the bea possible gun...

But rather that he can add to our depth and be part of our fringe who will play some games as part of the bottom six....but if everyone is up and firing is squeezed out.

We play poorly away from Docklands...and one factor is lack of pace on big grounds.

[Oh When the Saints]

IMO we don't need to replace Hudghton with a defender ... flawed thinking.

Lynch - Maguire
Hansen - Gilbert
Staker - S. Fisher
Cox/Seaby - Blake


We can cover their forward options with out much sweat ...


For mine:

OUT: M. Hudghton, R. Harvey
IN: J. Koschitzke, J. Attard

[Otiman]

Obviously CJ is more popular than I had thought. But posters should not delude themselves with the idea that we should be excited about him because of his "potential": he's actually older than Mark McGough FFS!!

McGough had plenty of opportunity under AFL coaching and development, fitness regimes, and so on.

This is CJ's first season at an AFL club, and showed some promise early in the season.

[carn_sainter]

Clint Jones will not improve his kicking

in my estimation, his style is so incongruent with a nice kick, that he just won't be able to improve it much

there is still value he can add...if he can work on his hands and win the ball in close or become more of a tagger type then that is good

he has the speed of a 21st century wingman but the foot disposal of a 50's FB...

kicking is the most fundamental skill in the game and he is a liability...

maybe he can turn himself into a harvs 30m maximum type of player and his kick would be serviceable

but he just lacks the number one thing a wingman needs...to be damaging in open space

so, whilst there is room for improvement, i doubt he'll ever be any more than a liability by foot and that is bad


as for this week, i think attard will come in for harvs so ross can tag with him

max is out and probably for a running type, though ferguson could be the in-between that gives us flexibility

kosi in for doc as well

[duckduckduckgoose]

im staggered that coming up to a MUST WIN game against the reigning premiers people are entertaining the thought of giving CJ a game.
This is no time to be screwing around with "project" players.

[TimeToShineFellas]

Well I disagree with you, I think CJ will become a great player for us, I love his pace and aggressive tackling...

Dude, it's not going to happen.

He doesn't really lay that many tackles, and his pace is not what people hype it up to be.

He can't kick or dispose of the football in any meaningful form - a huge issue at this level. He's also a lightweight, and at 23, he's not going to improve.

He'll be delisted at the end of the year and rightly so.

I respectfully disagree on all points, I think he will not only be retained but elevated to the senior list....the only down side on his game at this point is his disposal which can be worked on at training, he is a good find IMO

I respectfully agree with evertonfc and respectfully disagree with yourself saintlee........

23 years of age and he STILL needs to work on his disposal? That is a huge worry.

Just a quicker version of McGough. We cannot afford him to cough up the ball in such a crunch game against West Coast. This week is definitely no week to have an inclusion such as Jones....

imo....

I reckon the changes might be:

Out: Max, Harvey (at this stage)
In: Koschitzke, Attard

[midas_touch]

In: Kosi, Attard
Out: Harvey, Hudghton

Agree with most people here regarding CJ. Whilst he is 23, its his first year of AFL, and so he is still very raw despite being a 'mature age' recruit. His age is irrelevant. We cannot afford to play him in such a high stakes game, where we have at least three other players that would offer more than him at this stage (Armo, Mini and Attard).

[awesome_days]

IN: Kosi Ferguson McQualter*
OUT: Hughton Harvey Baker

B: LFisher Maguire R Clarke
HB: Gram SFisher Ferguson
C: Gilbert Ball Montagna
HF: Fiora Riewoldt XClarke
F: Milne Koschitzke Gherig
Foll: Blake Hayes DalSanto

Int: Birss Voss McQualter MClarke

Maguire - Lynch
SFisher - Staker
Ferguson - Hansen
Blake - Cox
Ball - Kerr

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I think everyone (including the selectors and Ross Lyon) should be careful when looking at CJ and Attard that they forget about where they came from and only concentrate on what they are able to do now in comparison with the other 36 or so players on our senior list.

People who go on about what "finds" Attard and CJ were, or how well they are going for unfashionable rejects from other clubs, etc, etc. sound to me a bit like people who go into serious credit card debt because there were all these bargains that they couldn't resist buying.

I see where you're coming from with CJ, I would disagree that at 23 he's at a "what you see is what you get" stage of his career... at the least, it does take some time to adjust to AFL. Rix is older, and while he'll never amount to much, he's certainly improved as time as gone by. That said, CJ's disposal is what's kept im from AFL ranks to date, and it's highly questionable this can be corrected.

For all the early optomism, his kicking efficiency is something like 56%... which is nowhere near AFL standard. After 3 games (when he got injured and had been looking pretty good) he was at around 67% - which is way below average, but acceptable if he wins enough of his own ball to justify errant kicks. Obviously, in 2 games where he's dropping his KE from low to off the radar, he's been a liability... the trouble with CJ is that while it's no more fair to judge him on his last two games than his first 3, at 23 years old, there isn't the same room for patience as there would be with an 18 year old.

As for Jayden Attard, I think people are well justified in being happy with him as a find. he's 21 years old, was a 2004 draft pick, and games wise is exactly where you'd expect a mid-tier prospect to be (couple less than desirable over first two years balanced by more than expected this year). He doesn't look like he'll ever be a star, but if he can get enough games under his belt playing defense first and hard at the ball as his main assetts, he gives himself plenty of chance of rounding out into a player. 200+ game star he won't be, but as a rookie list find, I'd call him a resounding success and think the kid has probably saved his AFL career, provided he does continue to improve. IMO, he's worth a 2 year deal at years end, and I expect him to play most of his games in the seniors over the length of that. GOP.

[mad saint guy]

Now that Hudghton, Harvey and Baker are confirmed outs, it looks like Kosi and the two midfielders who didn't play for the Scorps will come in (though I would prefer Ferg over Jones).

OUT: Hudghton, Harvey, Baker
IN: Koschitzke, Jones, Attard

B: Gilbert, Maguire, L.Fisher
HB: Gram, S.Fisher, R.Clarke
C: Attard, Hayes, Montagna
HF: X.Clarke, Riewoldt, Fiora
F: Voss, Gehrig, Milne

Foll: Koschitzke, Ball, Dal Santo
Int: Birss, Blake, M.Clarke, Jones

Maguire v Lynch
S.Fisher v Hansen
Gilbert v Staker
L.Fisher v LeCras
R.Clarke v Judd

Attard v Braun

Milne v Wirrpanda

Hayes and Ball to go head-to-head with Cousins and Priddis in the middle, while Stenglein will tag Dal Santo. Fletcher head-to-head with Montagna.

Glass v Gehrig
Hunter v Riewoldt
Schofield v Koschitzke
Selwood v X.Clarke
B.Jones v Voss

Stenglein v Dal Santo