I hate .....

[Joffa Burns]

Watching St Kilda play football in their current style.

I am perhaps a fair weathered fan, but I am a purist when it comes to sport.

When I watch footy I love a contest, I like seeing long kicks into big forwards who mark and goal. I like hard hits, strong tackles and guys grabbing the ball and taking the opposition on. I want to see goals kicked. I repeat GOALS!!!!

When I watch boxing I want to see they guys trade punches not wrestle or dance around the ring.

When I watch cricket I want to see guys playing shots and bowlers trying to take wickets not bowl a foot outside off stump with a crowded off side field.

I watch sport for the enjoyment, the entertainment, the battle and the admiration of sportsman who can perform feats I could only dream of matching.

The saints are currently not an entertaining team to watch. I hate the crabbing, the tempo play, the kicking backward and most of all I hate it when they break from the back half and have nobody in the forward line to kick it to.

The best saints game of football I have seen in the past 7 years was V Brisbane 2004 the TS 40 game. Rightly or wrongly I’d rather watch that game and us lose than a match such as the game we played V the Bulldogs and win (I know we drew!).

I just don’t enjoy watching us play like this!

Am I alone?

[Selhurst Saint]

I agree, I hate our current style. Watching us play is now agonising.

I think we needed a slight defensive tweak to game plan from previous years but what we have now is negative, boring, and unsuccessful.

[joffaboy]

Watching St Kilda play football in their current style.

<snip>

I just don’t enjoy watching us play like this!

Am I alone?

No you are not alone.

I was prepared to giove the Saints the benefit of the doubt when they had an injury crisis early in the year.

However I have not been excited by them since the WCE match. Even the Hawthorn match was a bore to me.

I am losing my interest in this tawdry boring keepings off game and flooding (I dont care what you call it).

I find I want Geelong to win the flag because they are at least playing attacking attractive footy.

Saints have a multitude of talent on the field and they play boring s.hite football.

[plugger66]

What I hate about the game plan at the moment is as soon as we lose possession in the forward line the players all run back past the centre and give the other side free possession to the middle of the ground. We then zone off and if the opposition are good kicks we are not man on man and they can still hit targets.

Of course against poor sides this is fine as they will miss targets but against a Sydney or WCE they will hit their target which means they have a shot at goal with no pressure having been put on them from the backline.

[jonesy]

What I hate about the game plan at the moment is as soon as we lose possession in the forward line the players all run back past the centre and give the other side free possession to the middle of the ground. We then zone off and if the opposition are good kicks we are not man on man and they can still hit targets.

Of course against poor sides this is fine as they will miss targets but against a Sydney or WCE they will hit their target which means they have a shot at goal with no pressure having been put on them from the backline.

Yep,agree. Watching all the games on tv this year cos i'm up north,but last week was my first game Live for the year and it was alarming!!!! As soon as they get possesion there is not one ounce of pressure and we all floodback! Sh#thouse!!

Roos,Lyon, possibly the two most boring coaches in the league of all time!!!

[SENsei]

In total agreeance with you Joffa, and joffa, and plugger (who was spot on with his Beva mail by the way)

I hate watching our game style at the moment. It will turn, granted, but at this point in time, I am not entertained.

But in the grand scheme of things, is my entertainment important? Probably not. Does Rossy care about my entertainment? Definitely not. Would I rather win games in an unentertaining way? Sure thing.

Have I caught Ross Lyon fever with my questions? Possibly so.

[didzee]

Win the ball in the centre kick it to Frase,Roo,Milney in the forward line not the wing or half back.... Goal
Do it as much as you can per game.
Is it that hard.
Im with JB.
even when we win i dont race home anymore to watch the replay or tape the game
can see the whole match highlights on the winners.

[plugger66]

Win the ball in the centre kick it to Frase,Roo,Milney in the forward line not the wing or half back.... Goal
Do it as much as you can per game.
Is it that hard.
Im with JB.
even when we win i dont race home anymore to watch the replay or tape the game
can see the whole match highlights on the winners.

That is the problem you cannot kick it long to our forwards because they are outnumbered because most of them have flooded back so we have to retain possession until we have the numbers. That is why we kick it sideways.

[joffaboy]

But in the grand scheme of things, is my entertainment important?

I would totally disagree with this SENsational.

Be selfish, be arrogant, be self centred about it, after all you shell out your hard earned to "be entertained".

The AFL and STKFC have to realise that they are in competition from other entertainment for my $. Now they rely on blind passion and rusted on supporters for the comp to continue to flourish.

However the corruption and injustices add up to first bewilderment, then resentment, to finally apathy.

Add this to the terrible game style ATM and I ask myself "do I need to waste my time watching this dross?".

Like JoffaBurns, I might get accused of being a fair weather supporter, but so be it.

There is only so long you can take AFL corruption and cheating, incompetent umpiring, and terrible gameplans and boring games until you lose interest.

Sorry but that is what is happening.

Mabye if the Saints were sitting where Geelong are I might feel better, however if they had have played like they have I probably would not be as excited as I was once upon a time. Hence my hope of a Geelong GF win.

[Dan Warna]

I should trade mark "chippilotto"

I firmly believe the quality of our list is better than our position on the ladder.

[meher baba]

The new style would be just fine with me if we were winning most of our games.

The dwindling handfull of fans of the new style on this forum tend to argue that - once the players get used to it, once we have a proper pre-season, once RL gets to shape the list the way he would like, etc, etc - we will start to win lots of games, including high pressure games like finals.

The last two weeks have been particularly disillusioning in terms of this point of view. Our injury situation has improved, our coach has had enough time to get some of his key messages across and the players now seem to be better drilled in the new tactics than was the case earlier in the season. But, in two finals-type games in which - on the basis of what we have seen - we had the more talented group of players on the park, we have failed to get on top of our opponents in the first quarter and have then been blown away in the last quarter. Sure, we got a rotten go from the umps in both games, but isn't that part and parcel of a high pressure game (an "arm wrestle" if you like).

Perhaps things will be different next year, but so far the new style seems to make us less effective at what we used to be really good at (attacking the ball in midfield, moving the ball forward quickly and marking inside the forward 50) and, at best, about as effective at the things that we were only reasonably good at in the past (clearances, defending against their attacks, etc.)

I sure hope I'm proven wrong in the long run, but every week that goes by.............

[saintsRrising]

Win the ball in the centre kick it to Frase,Roo,Milney in the forward line not the wing or half back.... Goal
Do it as much as you can per game.
Is it that hard.
Im with JB.
even when we win i dont race home anymore to watch the replay or tape the game
can see the whole match highlights on the winners.

That is the problem you cannot kick it long to our forwards because they are outnumbered because most of them have flooded back so we have to retain possession until we have the numbers. That is why we kick it sideways.

agree...

and also agree that foory is not as good to watch as it was.


However Neesham brought to The AFL what was being done in other sports such as Hockey and Basketball......and even though the Dockers could not mater it...other coaches took note and the game change from contests to possession.

aesthetics went out the door....but unfortunately possession gives youa higher chance of winning.




And before someone quotes the Cats....they are playing possession football too...but because they are confident and quick with the ball it is better to watch.


The upside is the thae sainst will also become better to watch as things click into place.....however no time soon wil the game be as exciting to watch as in the days Barker patrolling the skies...or Plugga the goal square.

[jonesy]

Now they rely on blind passion and rusted on supporters for the comp to continue to flourish.



There is only so long you can take AFL corruption and cheating, incompetent umpiring, and terrible gameplans and boring games until you lose interest.

Correct!

It's only because of the brainwashing i recieved from when I was one,and the deep embedded passion of the club from the Moorabbin days that keeps me going...the memories!

The game has been diluted into a joke compared to what it once was.
Hopefully time will cycle the game back to what it was. If it wasn't for Melbourne's ridiculous passion the game would be on the way out

[yipper]

It is tough - and I love watching footy!!

It didn't really occur to me how slow our game is until I watched the pussies play against the Crows last weekend. They are exciting, and have skills and pace.

I'm sure it is only a trend - and I think, once the coach has the list of his choice - there will be a shift to a more interesting GP. It was still quite exciting watching them play against WCE, Crows and Dorks recently - but the game on Saturday was just so hard to watch. Back at the Dome this week, playing an elim final - I'm hoping they'll be a bit more daring.

Dare to win saints.

[plugger66]

Win the ball in the centre kick it to Frase,Roo,Milney in the forward line not the wing or half back.... Goal
Do it as much as you can per game.
Is it that hard.
Im with JB.
even when we win i dont race home anymore to watch the replay or tape the game
can see the whole match highlights on the winners.

That is the problem you cannot kick it long to our forwards because they are outnumbered because most of them have flooded back so we have to retain possession until we have the numbers. That is why we kick it sideways.

agree...

and also agree that foory is not as good to watch as it was.


However Neesham brought to The AFL what was being done in other sports such as Hockey and Basketball......and even though the Dockers could not mater it...other coaches took note and the game change from contests to possession.

aesthetics went out the door....but unfortunately possession gives youa higher chance of winning.




And before someone quotes the Cats....they are playing possession football too...but because they are confident and quick with the ball it is better to watch.


The upside is the thae sainst will also become better to watch as things click into place.....however no time soon wil the game be as exciting to watch as in the days Barker patrolling the skies...or Plugga the goal square.

All sides want to retain possession and of course the Cats do that but what they do not do is flood back to half as soon as they lose possession. They at least put pressure on the ball carrier which creates turnovers and you the still have a forward line structure. Same with most sides except probably us, Swans and Hawks and what is the common theme there, they have been involved in the worst games this year. Most others are entertaining.

[Dan Warna]

Dare to win saints.

i hope so

[Stephen Theodore]

Dan Warna wrote:
I firmly believe the quality of our list is better than our position on the ladder.


SO DO I

[Joffa Burns]

Why have I enjoyed watching Gilbert play this year?

Because he plays uninhibited football, he grabs it and runs and takes on the opposition.

Have I caught the Ross Lyon (or is that Roos Lyon because of his game plan) disease of asking a question and answering it myself - I think so!

[StSteven]

Yes it is a pain. But if the Cats win everyone will be emulating them and we will be back to football worth watching.

This year's finals will be very interesting to see what style of play is triumphant.

I cannot get excited about kicking sideways, backwards etc.

If you have Foxtel watch a few old matches. May not have been as fast and as skillful but sure is fun to watch.


PS Two things hit me watching '80s matches is that

a) players DO NOT TOUCH THE BACK of players but take just as many hangers....and

b) they don't remonstrate with umpires.

It is much better to watch in many ways. Combine that competitiveness with today's athleticism and it could be fun again.

[bigcarl]

Would I rather win games in an unentertaining way? Sure thing.

so would i and winning is the bottom line. but is what we are serving up really the way forward? i think we have shown in the recent past ... and geelong is showing this year ... that there are other ways to win games

this ultra-defensive, numbers behind the ball, "accountable", negative mindset has infected an entire team which is playing without confidence or passion.

it also hands far too much respect to many of the opponents we have faced. in fact it drags us down to their level of talent.

blokes are more worried about their opponent's stats than their own; they seem too scared to take risks lest they make a mistake and are dragged.

it's all about match-ups, i can hear RL saying.

what about making them match up on us! we do have some talent out there.

[Mr X from the West]

As Plugger said in another post, our game plan keeps the opposition in all of our games because of the lack of scoreboard pressure we create.

Before each game we play we all know it's going to be close. We never get the opportunity to consider the prospects of a blow out win because we know our game plan doesn't allow for it.

I hate watching the Swans play and I see a lot of them in the way we play. It's s***.

[plugger66]

As Plugger said in another post, our game plan keeps the opposition in all of our games because of the lack of scoreboard pressure we create.

Before each game we play we all know it's going to be close. We never get the opportunity to consider the prospects of a blow out win because we know our game plan doesn't allow for it.

I hate watching the Swans play and I see a lot of them in the way we play. It's s***.

You right but even the swans blow away sides. We were winning by more earlier in the year when we probably had a bit of last year and this years style but now it is a hard slog.

[JeffDunne]

I must admit for the first time ever I nodded off briefly during the game on Saturday night. It might be my age but I watch sport at all odd hours and have never fallen asleep doing so. Our season was on the line but I found it hard to really muster any passion.

The preseason NFL game I watched Saturday morning was far more interesting even with 3rd stringers playing.

What really is despressing watching the team atm is that most of players look as bored as I feel watching it.

[rogerwa]

hear ya joffa...in 6 months we have been reduced to a rabble & there's worse to come imo

not only do we not like whats going on but the chyt will hit the fan next yr where it counts

with the crap thats been dished up the $'s will dry up just as quick

look to 27-28 thousand members
merchandise down
marketing down
no more fri night blockbusters..the tv networks are not going to put our crap on at prime time = less sponsorship

if things stay the way they are onfield next yr the $'s will force the removal of lyon after 2 yrs...we cant afford to go backwards financialy

imo(hope i'm wrong) we have picked up the greatest dud along with tony jewell in our clubs history

[karnaby]

I don't know what gen Y thinks about it but this baby boomer thinks our footy sucks.

I think that if their isn't a significant turnaround in the next few weeks (which I still think is possible) we're going to have very real problems with membership numbers next year. The disenchanted WILL take their dollars elsewhere.

I think RL looks like he might well be a good coach for us over time & I sincerely hope that proves to be the case, however, of late I have repeatedly wondered how a bloke, with what seems a very negative style & certainly a negative gameplan, was seen as a good fit for our playing group.

Plenty of people on here with their amazing 20:20 hindsight go on about how we wasted opportunities in 2004 & 2005 in particular, well what I reckon I'm seeing is a wasted opportunity flying out the window RIGHT THIS MOMENT!

I firmly believe that we are good enough to still have a decent chance this year. For once a team that finishes 5-8 might have a chance of getting to the GF, and they might even be able to avoid having to go away from Vic to play a Final. We can still possibly be the beneficiaries of that sort of luck but somehow we have to play as if we still want to grasp our chances, frustratingly, that doesn't seem to have been the case over the past few weeks.