Honest opinions

[MCG-Unit]

36 - Robert Harvey................ Retire
34 - Andrew Thompson.......... Retire
34 - Matthew Clarke............... Retire
31 - Fraser Gehrig.................. Retire
30 - Aaron Hamill................... Maybe
29 - Michael Gardiner............. Maybe
29 - Brett Voss...................... Retire

[Joffa Burns]

36 - Robert Harvey................ NO, hope he goes out on a high
34 - Andrew Thompson.......... No- has passed him by
34 - Matthew Clarke............... No- was always a punt
31 - Fraser Gehrig.................. Yes- if he is mentally right to go
30 - Aaron Hamill................... No- has passed him by
29 - Michael Gardiner............. No- body seems incapable of holding up
29 - Brett Voss...................... No- has slowed and pace is becoming an even more valua ble comodity

The above is only the opinion of ther writer!

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Hard questions. A lot of well deserved sentiment in this thread.

Sad to say, but I really wouldn't be surprised if the only one of those guys who goes around next year is Gardiner (Hamill will at least make an effort, but another setback may well be the last one).

The vets are going to have some hard decisions to make. The club on the back of those decisions will also have some hard decisions to make.

Most of the nucleus of the Saints is still quite young. There's also a lot of players who are at the make or break stage of their careers, whose futures may hinge on the decisions of the veterans. A decision to reture now may well hurt less next year than a decision to go for one more might in two years time.

For Harvey and Gehrig, I believe the question will be can 2008 be the year - you could make the case, but it will take faith. For Voss and Thommo, I beleive there's no room for sentiment. If Voss really wants to play on, perhaps work with him to try and trade him.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Why trade/delist if you're gonna bring in players from the 2s who can't get a game now. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Why not delist/trade Brooks, Watts and their ilk.

Personally, I don't buy into a sentiment these guys haven't had a fair go... they haven't had much of a go, but IMO, that's fair considering form, skill, role etc. based on selection committee criteria which they haven't met.

However, moving forward, there's more chance of say, Brooks being around in 2 years than Matty Clarke. So I'd rather exit Clarke, play Brooks, and be sure when I'm making the decision next year.

Equally, more chance of Watts in 3 years than G, so while if G wants to play next year, it's his spot, if he's in doubt, then opening it up to Brooks/Watts means that rather than drafting and hoping, we've got someone pushing Brooks/Watts rather than thrown to the wolves because Brooks/Watts were delisted and then G retired at the end of next year.

The Saints will be better in the short term if Harvey and G play on. However, with the rest of the player st. mart listed, one has to question whether the sort term benefit really compares to the long term risk.

[saintsRrising]

The Saints will be better in the short term if Harvey and G play on. However, with the rest of the player st. mart listed, one has to question whether the sort term benefit really compares to the long term risk.

And there is the rub....


What is best to try and win a flag this year

What is best to try and win a flag in 2008

What is best to try and win a flag in 2009 are all different things

[Otiman]

Without looking at others answers to sway me...

36 - Robert Harvey................STAY (IF HE WANTS TO)
34 - Andrew Thompson..........GONE
34 - Matthew Clarke...............GONE
31 - Fraser Gehrig..................STAY
30 - Aaron Hamill...................GONE
29 - Michael Gardiner.............STAY
29 - Brett Voss......................STAY

[meher baba]

Reading through this thread again, I must say that I am disappointed that only I and a couple of other posters see any sort of a future at the club for Vossy, even as a backup player.

He's only 29 FFS, which makes him the same age as, or younger than, the likes of Kirk, Hall, O'Loughlin, Milburn, Braun, Cousins, Chick, Farmer, Clement, Licuria, A Rocca and many more who will surely play on for 1, 2 or more seasons into the future.

He's given great service to the club and still looks like an AFL player to me. People say he's slow, which apparently makes him a less attractive proposition to the likes of C Jones or J Attard. Fair enough, he is different to Jones and Attard in a number of ways: eg, he knows how to get his hands on the ball and also how to dispose of it well!!!

Gee there's a nasty pack mentality on this forum. Lots of posters have gotten a sense that Lyon has it in for Voss, so they move in for the kill.

If the Lyon style of footy means that there is a huge future for the likes of Jones, Attard, Blake and for Leigh Fisher playing in the midfield, but not for the likes of Voss, then personally I'm far from impressed.

[riccardo]

Are the following FINISHED??????

or can they play a role in 2008????

Yes or No answers

36 - Robert Harvey................YES
34 - Andrew Thompson..........NO
34 - Matthew Clarke...............NO
31 - Fraser Gehrig..................PROBABLY
30 - Aaron Hamill...................NO
29 - Michael Gardiner.............PROBABLY NOT
29 - Brett Voss......................NO

[Dal_Santos_Gal]

Gehrig - If his lack of passion is anything to go by then I can't see him going on, agree with OWTS, not apart of our next flag.

lack of passion...?

playing with injured hand, injured foot, working his backside off defensively whilst getting 0 help offensively and he is dispassionate?

what are you basing your observation on?

It is my opinion in some games he really does appear disinterested, Dropping the head and looking like he does not really want to be out there. You know when Fraser means business he looks like an angry man who is ready to take on the world. IMO we don't see that everyweek

When fraser "looks" like he is sooking 9 times out of 10 we lose.

As I said its opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

[bigcarl]

Gee there's a nasty pack mentality on this forum. Lots of posters have gotten a sense that Lyon has it in for Voss, so they move in for the kill.
.

i've had a second thought about voss and decided i should have said "gone ... as long as the coach doesn't believe in him"

[jonesy]

Harvey- 3-4 weeks ago i would of said must play on,but the last 3 weeks have been the consecutively worst games he's ever played. I don't want him to go out like that next year,so I think it's time to go for the great man.

F.Gehrig- Has to play on for another year. Been pretty good apart from the last couple,which is due to the team playing like mud and a hand injury.

As for the rest,thanks,but time to go.

[Teflon]

Gee there's a nasty pack mentality on this forum. Lots of posters have gotten a sense that Lyon has it in for Voss, so they move in for the kill.

See iots silly comments like this above that get you in strife I reckon.

I could care less what Lyon think of Voss - he could say "I want Voss to stay"....IMO hes gawn.

He doesnt alwyas "get his hands on the pill" infact this year at times he been very quiet in games and yes at times looked like he struggled with the pace aspect.

IMO Voss's only hope was as a goal kicking HF - he has good hands for size and can kick a distance - BUT you could run off him aka Gehrig and we have enough icebergs in our fwd line at present.
As for backline - he provides aboslutely NO run from defence and while hes tough and courageous again a smaller size fwd with zip would cut him up. However, Voss can play tall......so he may have certain games where a match upis suited - enough to keep his spot? Nup.

As for ass-uming the rest of this forum simply has it in for Voss because you PERCEIVE Lyon does...........thats insulting the intelliegence of every poster and suggestive that YOU are the only forumite capable of independent thought.

Ive read enough of your stuff to know that aint right.

[evertonfc]

Reading through this thread again, I must say that I am disappointed that only I and a couple of other posters see any sort of a future at the club for Vossy, even as a backup player.

He's only 29 FFS, which makes him the same age as, or younger than, the likes of Kirk, Hall, O'Loughlin, Milburn, Braun, Cousins, Chick, Farmer, Clement, Licuria, A Rocca and many more who will surely play on for 1, 2 or more seasons into the future.

He's given great service to the club and still looks like an AFL player to me. People say he's slow, which apparently makes him a less attractive proposition to the likes of C Jones or J Attard. Fair enough, he is different to Jones and Attard in a number of ways: eg, he knows how to get his hands on the ball and also how to dispose of it well!!!

Gee there's a nasty pack mentality on this forum. Lots of posters have gotten a sense that Lyon has it in for Voss, so they move in for the kill.

If the Lyon style of footy means that there is a huge future for the likes of Jones, Attard, Blake and for Leigh Fisher playing in the midfield, but not for the likes of Voss, then personally I'm far from impressed.

To be fair, I'm a massive fan of Voss, but being in and out of the team hasn't helped him. I think he'll stay on.

One thing for sure though, he's 20x times the player Jones is and 10x the player Attard is - I could never have either picked ahead of Voss.

Voss is too valuble to be chopped, I think. He's a great utility for reliability - an excellent extra option in defence or attack. Great user of the footy and superb under pressure. 2007 has seen a slight dip in his reliability and pace, but he is a damn handy player.

Deserves a go ahead of Blake, Birss and the above two, surely. I hope he's promoted this week and he stays in for the rest of the year.

[Sxc_Sainter]

Are the following FINISHED??????

or can they play a role in 2008????

Yes or No answers

36 - Robert Harvey................YES can play a role, but rumour has it that he is strongly considering retirement. Has been tagged the last few weeks which really say something, at his age.

34 - Andrew Thompson..........Possibly could play a role, but doubtful given the lack of game time he has received this year. Sadly, i believe this is thommo's last year. Fantastic veteran for the club though.

34 - Matthew Clarke...............Depending on recruiting and how Van Rheenan finishes off the season. Based on ability, yes should retire doesnt seem to do enough. However if we have no other option, might still see him through next year.

31 - Fraser Gehrig.................Definitely can play a role in the side. However, the poor midfield deliveries, might see Fraser retire. Would love for him to be in the side.

30 - Aaron Hamill...................Can play a role. Doubtful to the degree to which he might have an impact. Been out for a long time and the degenerative knee is a real worry. Last chance in 2008.

29 - Michael Gardiner.............Can play a role in 2008. and will def be there in 08.

29 - Brett Voss......................Can play a role. been pushing for selection so he will be there in 08 as well.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

The Saints will be better in the short term if Harvey and G play on. However, with the rest of the player st. mart listed, one has to question whether the sort term benefit really compares to the long term risk.

And there is the rub....


What is best to try and win a flag this year

What is best to try and win a flag in 2008

What is best to try and win a flag in 2009 are all different things

That depends on a few thing though.

Given the desire, G's got another 2/3 seasons in him. That gives time to draft and develop someone for the spot. You can also move someone else between positions - right now we view Gwilt as a back, but Sam Fisher was drafted as a forward, and Gehrig himself was recruited as a fullback.

Harvey I don't think really occupies a spot that is getting in anyone's way. Midfield guys have been able to push in and get a go, they just haven't been able to hold the spot.

As Meher Baba put it, a lot of this discussion is (while interesting) moot. What I would like is for the Saints to be asking Gehrig, come years end, whether he's got enough passion left for 3 years.

I would say that now, 2008, and 2009 aren't that different in approach to target a flag. Now, 2010, and 2012 (as the current core starts to contemplate their life after football) possibly are.

[saintspremiers]

36 - Robert Harvey................not finished
34 - Andrew Thompson..........gone
34 - Matthew Clarke...............gone
31 - Fraser Gehrig..................gone
30 - Aaron Hamill...................gone
29 - Michael Gardiner.............not finished (1 more season)
29 - Brett Voss......................gone

+ Barry Brooks = dud