Same old story - can't kick well enough

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Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973269Post older saint »

Geelong are flying and better so no surprise we lost IMO.

What stands out and has for a few weeks now is the inability to hit a target under minimal pressure. Last 3 years including now it has been noticed with goal kicking but that just one aspect of the overall problem inability to kick the ball to a target.
Geelong score off turnover was around 2/3rds of the total.

It started with WB game where field kicking was the not up to AFL level and has continued from there. uncontested kicks from a mark or free missing the target by 3 metres is just not good enough. Hill missed targets multiple times, and there were so many others especially in the 3rd qtr. I recall one Long was 5 mtrs clear in the middle , Ball was kicked from the wing to him, missed by 3 mtrs straight to Geelong- Goal at other end.

I hope the guy from collingwood is a magician as this is the biggest handbrake this squad has at the moment.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973274Post Vortex »

Talant and Class.

Talant and Class

Talant and Class

We are well short of it to becoming a sustainable top 4 side.

It will be another 2 or 3 years before we know if this years recruits can become top 4 finals type players.

And we need another 2 to 3 years of successful recruiting.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973276Post Teflon »

Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:48am Talant and Class.

Talant and Class

Talant and Class

We are well short of it to becoming a sustainable top 4 side.

It will be another 2 or 3 years before we know if this years recruits can become top 4 finals type players.

And we need another 2 to 3 years of successful recruiting.
Agree
And they need to get rid of Sharman he’s no good


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973278Post WellardSaint »

The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973279Post Teflon »

WellardSaint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:03am The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish
Geez don’t start us Hill missed multiple targets last night
Paton banging it in the boot kick n hope style from defence straight to cats
There were times where we went forward had a 3-1 situation in favour of saints against cat player …and hit the cats player ???? Wtf is that at afl level?
The players do not know what to do taking the ball forward they look lost
That’s game plan
What are they training down there ffs?


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973285Post Vortex »

Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:57am
Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:48am Talant and Class.

Talant and Class

Talant and Class

We are well short of it to becoming a sustainable top 4 side.

It will be another 2 or 3 years before we know if this years recruits can become top 4 finals type players.

And we need another 2 to 3 years of successful recruiting.
Agree
And they need to get rid of Sharman he’s no good
Hopefully Jack Hayes can return to consistently deliver the standard he was in his first few games because he is our next best option for a forward/ruck option. Sharman is way off the pace and fortunately has been given 2 years to learn the craft. Could possible become a piece of the puzzle but he isn't AFL grade just yet and only time will tell if he can make it.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973288Post Teflon »

Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:15am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:57am
Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:48am Talant and Class.

Talant and Class

Talant and Class

We are well short of it to becoming a sustainable top 4 side.

It will be another 2 or 3 years before we know if this years recruits can become top 4 finals type players.

And we need another 2 to 3 years of successful recruiting.
Agree
And they need to get rid of Sharman he’s no good
Hopefully Jack Hayes can return to consistently deliver the standard he was in his first few games because he is our next best option for a forward/ruck option. Sharman is way off the pace and fortunately has been given 2 years to learn the craft. Could possible become a piece of the puzzle but he isn't AFL grade just yet and only time will tell if he can make it.
Yep should be cut for sure


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973293Post Vortex »

Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:16am
Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:15am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:57am
Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:48am Talant and Class.

Talant and Class

Talant and Class

We are well short of it to becoming a sustainable top 4 side.

It will be another 2 or 3 years before we know if this years recruits can become top 4 finals type players.

And we need another 2 to 3 years of successful recruiting.
Agree
And they need to get rid of Sharman he’s no good
Hopefully Jack Hayes can return to consistently deliver the standard he was in his first few games because he is our next best option for a forward/ruck option. Sharman is way off the pace and fortunately has been given 2 years to learn the craft. Could possible become a piece of the puzzle but he isn't AFL grade just yet and only time will tell if he can make it.
Yep should be cut for sure
You really should address your hysteria, didn't you hear he was given a 2 year contract so he has plenty of time to develop and learn the craft but right at the moment he is way off the pace. And there is no shame in that, not everyone can be Wayne Carey from game 1.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973302Post older saint »

Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:07am
WellardSaint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:03am The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish
Geez don’t start us Hill missed multiple targets last night
Paton banging it in the boot kick n hope style from defence straight to cats
There were times where we went forward had a 3-1 situation in favour of saints against cat player …and hit the cats player ???? Wtf is that at afl level?
The players do not know what to do taking the ball forward they look lost
That’s game plan
What are they training down there ffs?
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973329Post Teflon »

Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:27am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:16am
Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:15am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:57am
Vortex wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 10:48am Talant and Class.

Talant and Class

Talant and Class

We are well short of it to becoming a sustainable top 4 side.

It will be another 2 or 3 years before we know if this years recruits can become top 4 finals type players.

And we need another 2 to 3 years of successful recruiting.
Agree
And they need to get rid of Sharman he’s no good
Hopefully Jack Hayes can return to consistently deliver the standard he was in his first few games because he is our next best option for a forward/ruck option. Sharman is way off the pace and fortunately has been given 2 years to learn the craft. Could possible become a piece of the puzzle but he isn't AFL grade just yet and only time will tell if he can make it.
Yep should be cut for sure
You really should address your hysteria, didn't you hear he was given a 2 year contract so he has plenty of time to develop and learn the craft but right at the moment he is way off the pace. And there is no shame in that, not everyone can be Wayne Carey from game 1.
WHAT!!
Outrageous!!
I’m just agreeing with the great Vort who wrote the kid off after 7 games !!!!!!!
And if he isn’t AFL ready now compared to some of the other hacks getting games for us I’ll eat my hat!
Clearly club think he’s AFL ready
But you know football right?? :D


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973330Post Teflon »

older saint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:39am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:07am
WellardSaint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:03am The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish
Geez don’t start us Hill missed multiple targets last night
Paton banging it in the boot kick n hope style from defence straight to cats
There were times where we went forward had a 3-1 situation in favour of saints against cat player …and hit the cats player ???? Wtf is that at afl level?
The players do not know what to do taking the ball forward they look lost
That’s game plan
What are they training down there ffs?
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"
I think your missing the point
Great coaches train that skill/game plan under pressure
Again, go watch Sam Mitchell YouTube on it - his view is skill improvement is a CORE responsibility of the coach who has to pinpoint and out the training regime in place to practice and execute skills under pressure
Also a big part of being able to execute under pressure is having a predictable gane approach that players know - Cats I instinctively know where their players will be
Our bsll movement forward is a chook raffle !!
We are poorly drilled
Yes we can recruit skilled players but right now Brad hill looks like Dunstan ….why???????


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973337Post Sanctorum »

Exactly, in all of the games St Kilda has lost this year the sub-standard level of kicking has been a major factor. Last night Kingmarked the ball on the wing and in a brain fade hit it straight on the chest of a Geelong defender with not a Saints player within 5 metres - talk about coach killers! These stuff-ups have been about the only consistent thing the team has done this year :cry:

It really comes down to the critical lack of quality players on the list.

The way Geelong came out after half time to knock the Saints out of the contest was awesome but oh so hard to watch. It once again demonstrated how far off the pace St Kilda's is this year.

It would be interesting to know how the players themselves account for the huge slump in the performance of the team after the bye round when they were sitting 4th on the ladder having won 8 from 11 games. To put it down simply to poor game plan or lousy coaching seems illogical to me.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973339Post Sanctorum »

Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:17pm
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"

I think your missing the point
Great coaches train that skill/game plan under pressure
Again, go watch Sam Mitchell YouTube on it - his view is skill improvement is a CORE responsibility of the coach who has to pinpoint and out the training regime in place to practice and execute skills under pressure
Also a big part of being able to execute under pressure is having a predictable gane approach that players know - Cats I instinctively know where their players will be
Our bsll movement forward is a chook raffle !!
We are poorly drilled
Yes we can recruit skilled players but right now Brad hill looks like Dunstan ….why???????
Yes Teflon, you're quite right about the woeful ball movement and forward entries by the St Kilda players, they've been dreadful and not up to AFL standard let alone the top teams.

But what makes you think that the St Kilda coaching panel is not doing exactly what you say Sam Mitchell advocates in that video, it's not as though it is something he has invented, it's hardly novel or radical is it?

Don't you think that the massive disparity between the qualities of Geelong and St Kilda players lists is a more likely explanation?

And yes, Bradley Hill is miles off his best form and that could be due to a range of things both on and off the field, we'll never know.


The essence of philosophy is that a man should so live that his happiness shall depend as little as possible on external things.

"No man is free who is not master of himself."

Epictetus, Greek Stoic Philiosopher (c. 50 – c. 135 AD)
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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973340Post older saint »

Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:17pm
older saint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:39am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:07am
WellardSaint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:03am The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish
Geez don’t start us Hill missed multiple targets last night
Paton banging it in the boot kick n hope style from defence straight to cats
There were times where we went forward had a 3-1 situation in favour of saints against cat player …and hit the cats player ???? Wtf is that at afl level?
The players do not know what to do taking the ball forward they look lost
That’s game plan
What are they training down there ffs?
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"
I think your missing the point
Great coaches train that skill/game plan under pressure
Again, go watch Sam Mitchell YouTube on it - his view is skill improvement is a CORE responsibility of the coach who has to pinpoint and out the training regime in place to practice and execute skills under pressure
Also a big part of being able to execute under pressure is having a predictable gane approach that players know - Cats I instinctively know where their players will be
Our bsll movement forward is a chook raffle !!
We are poorly drilled
Yes we can recruit skilled players but right now Brad hill looks like Dunstan ….why???????
But we are missing them not under pressure .
its the 1/10/10000 theory. 1 minute to be shown a skill, 10 minutes to be able to do that skill, 10000 minutes to master the skill. Some of our players have got somewhere down the 10000 path and are happy with that.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973345Post Templar »

We typically lack movement when one of our players has the ball or has a free kick. So most of the time the choice is a high pressure kick to a one out or kick to a pack. Both options potentially result in turnover and against good teams this means goals against.

So we end up playing nervous football across the board as a team. Does nothing for kicking confidence. Even for gun players. Its like a virus.

If our players swarmed when we have the ball creating easier passing options for the kicker and positive movement we might get a flow on and not be so terrified of turning it over.

But we are generally stationary and the kicker is left scratching his head nervously. Then kicks to a pack. A low % play.

The other thing that would help is kick to first best option. Results in fast, clever ball movement and instinctive play.

Recruiting two KPP guns is not going to fix this. And besides, earlier in the year when we did have flow many were going on about how much depth we have. Three months later and now we don't have the cattle!

Players need to swarm in all directions when we take possession. The kicker then takes first best option. Rinse and repeat. I really think it is as simple as that.

If players are not willing to move for the kicker then blast them. Drop them. The occasional clanger is to be expected. Happens to the best. But nervous footy across the group is a coaching issue.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973349Post The Fireman »

Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:17pm
older saint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:39am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:07am
WellardSaint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:03am The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish
Geez don’t start us Hill missed multiple targets last night
Paton banging it in the boot kick n hope style from defence straight to cats
There were times where we went forward had a 3-1 situation in favour of saints against cat player …and hit the cats player ???? Wtf is that at afl level?
The players do not know what to do taking the ball forward they look lost
That’s game plan
What are they training down there ffs?
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"
I think your missing the point
Great coaches train that skill/game plan under pressure
Again, go watch Sam Mitchell YouTube on it - his view is skill improvement is a CORE responsibility of the coach who has to pinpoint and out the training regime in place to practice and execute skills under pressure
Also a big part of being able to execute under pressure is having a predictable gane approach that players know - Cats I instinctively know where their players will be
Our bsll movement forward is a chook raffle !!
We are poorly drilled
Yes we can recruit skilled players but right now Brad hill looks like Dunstan ….why???????
Was about to say the same. You beat me to it
Good coaching hones skills
I now fear our young blokes may not develop as well as they could
We are 2 years off a competitive side if we shed the old blokes pick up a couple of guns and properly develop some our young players who are showing heaps potential
Unfortunately that 2 years may have been compromised by an early resigning


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973357Post Teflon »

Sanctorum wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:49pm
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:17pm
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"

I think your missing the point
Great coaches train that skill/game plan under pressure
Again, go watch Sam Mitchell YouTube on it - his view is skill improvement is a CORE responsibility of the coach who has to pinpoint and out the training regime in place to practice and execute skills under pressure
Also a big part of being able to execute under pressure is having a predictable gane approach that players know - Cats I instinctively know where their players will be
Our bsll movement forward is a chook raffle !!
We are poorly drilled
Yes we can recruit skilled players but right now Brad hill looks like Dunstan ….why???????
Yes Teflon, you're quite right about the woeful ball movement and forward entries by the St Kilda players, they've been dreadful and not up to AFL standard let alone the top teams.

But what makes you think that the St Kilda coaching panel is not doing exactly what you say Sam Mitchell advocates in that video, it's not as though it is something he has invented, it's hardly novel or radical is it?

Don't you think that the massive disparity between the qualities of Geelong and St Kilda players lists is a more likely explanation?

And yes, Bradley Hill is miles off his best form and that could be due to a range of things both on and off the field, we'll never know.
On what logical basis can you seriously suggest st Kilda are coached well and that’s not playing a factor I to poor skill execution ???
Football pundits have noted our deplorable , stagnant, over possession gane style and lack of cohesion with the forwards and you’re telling me that’s all skill level?
How can players hit targets to be 8-3 and suddenly be so devoid of skills they’re now a bottom 2 side????
It doesn’t stack up
Need proof????
Go watch what McCrae has done at Pies - did you have them too 2 after Buckleys disaster re recruiting???
I don’t go to St Kilda training sessions (match day bad enough) but I read those who do who have stated we practice the long bomb to forward 50, deep entry to get smalls free …..players don’t make this up themselves we’ve played that way now 3 years under Ratten ??
And last one - where was “the massive disparity” between Geelong and St Kildas list when we beat them earlier this year ?? ??? Have Cats recruited since then??


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973358Post whiskers3614 »

Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:17pm
older saint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:39am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:07am
WellardSaint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:03am The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish
Geez don’t start us Hill missed multiple targets last night
Paton banging it in the boot kick n hope style from defence straight to cats
There were times where we went forward had a 3-1 situation in favour of saints against cat player …and hit the cats player ???? Wtf is that at afl level?
The players do not know what to do taking the ball forward they look lost
That’s game plan
What are they training down there ffs?
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"
I think your missing the point
Great coaches train that skill/game plan under pressure
Again, go watch Sam Mitchell YouTube on it - his view is skill improvement is a CORE responsibility of the coach who has to pinpoint and out the training regime in place to practice and execute skills under pressure
Also a big part of being able to execute under pressure is having a predictable gane approach that players know - Cats I instinctively know where their players will be
Our bsll movement forward is a chook raffle !!
We are poorly drilled
Yes we can recruit skilled players but right now Brad hill looks like Dunstan ….why???????
Please don't insult Dunstan!
Hill plays like a less skilled more faint hearted Fiora!


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973360Post Teflon »

The Fireman wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 3:59pm
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:17pm
older saint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:39am
Teflon wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:07am
WellardSaint wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 11:03am The one with Long, it was Sharman missing Long and putting it straight to a Cat.
Disgraceful.
Another was in last qtr with 11 mins to go, Hill had kicked perfectly to Skunk, who turned, and under zero pressure, kicked it to a Cat who was 5m in front of Windy. Skunk shoulda kicked to Windy's advantage. It was rubbish
Geez don’t start us Hill missed multiple targets last night
Paton banging it in the boot kick n hope style from defence straight to cats
There were times where we went forward had a 3-1 situation in favour of saints against cat player …and hit the cats player ???? Wtf is that at afl level?
The players do not know what to do taking the ball forward they look lost
That’s game plan
What are they training down there ffs?
Can't surely blame the coach for the player not bein able to execute a kick?
You said yourself 3-1 and we hit the Geelong guy on the chest.
May be issues with plan but lack of foot skills like last night or WB game - you could have Clarkson/Blight/ Sheedy or any other great coach in charge and it wouldn't matter. As the great Allan Jeans said" you cant polish a turd"
I think your missing the point
Great coaches train that skill/game plan under pressure
Again, go watch Sam Mitchell YouTube on it - his view is skill improvement is a CORE responsibility of the coach who has to pinpoint and out the training regime in place to practice and execute skills under pressure
Also a big part of being able to execute under pressure is having a predictable gane approach that players know - Cats I instinctively know where their players will be
Our bsll movement forward is a chook raffle !!
We are poorly drilled
Yes we can recruit skilled players but right now Brad hill looks like Dunstan ….why???????
Was about to say the same. You beat me to it
Good coaching hones skills
I now fear our young blokes may not develop as well as they could
We are 2 years off a competitive side if we shed the old blokes pick up a couple of guns and properly develop some our young players who are showing heaps potential
Unfortunately that 2 years may have been compromised by an early resigning
Yep
I’m actually starting to wonder if the old curse “saints can’t develop players” is purely coming down to saints can’t pick a coach who knows how to train skill execution under pressure
Again, fascinating read on BF from a respected international soccer coach who was stating lots of coaches run drills etc but great coaches actually develop training /drills and pinpoint the skill level under pressure they’re trying to emulate in a game. Then they train it deliberately.
I was a bit shocked to read it cause I thought at AFL level coaches would all know this and be on to it but his comments were this attention to detail sets aside great coaches from average
No surprise Clarkson studies so many other sports .. he’s a sponge
But we’ve got Brett who honestly is a top fella but looks lost beyond “swing Membrey back”
You can’t keep having heart to hearts - after a while the players stop listening and believing and I suspect since the bye they have.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973363Post The Fireman »

Actually are we de skilling players ? Brad hill was a beautiful kick when he came to the club
Now he can’t hit The broad side of a barn


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973365Post Teflon »

The Fireman wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 5:13pm Actually are we de skilling players ? Brad hill was a beautiful kick when he came to the club
Now he can’t hit The broad side of a barn
It’s a fair question isn’t it?
He looked a liability last night
Was a weapon for Hawks ….
Looks lost


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973369Post Waltzing St Kilda »

THere's another factor to this.

When a great player is the recipient of a bad kick, HE MAKES THE KICK LOOK GOOD.

By trying extra hard to get the pill and let his teammate off the hook.

Saints don't. They mentally check out. They've got an excuse, you see.

Then they glare down the field.


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973370Post Teflon »

Sanctorum wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:34pm Exactly, in all of the games St Kilda has lost this year the sub-standard level of kicking has been a major factor. Last night Kingmarked the ball on the wing and in a brain fade hit it straight on the chest of a Geelong defender with not a Saints player within 5 metres - talk about coach killers! These stuff-ups have been about the only consistent thing the team has done this year :cry:

It really comes down to the critical lack of quality players on the list.

The way Geelong came out after half time to knock the Saints out of the contest was awesome but oh so hard to watch. It once again demonstrated how far off the pace St Kilda's is this year.

It would be interesting to know how the players themselves account for the huge slump in the performance of the team after the bye round when they were sitting 4th on the ladder having won 8 from 11 games. To put it down simply to poor game plan or lousy coaching seems illogical to me.
Here’s another take from BF I think sums it up well:


I know our list isn’t stacked with stars or top 4 material, but whatever has transpired after bye has been abysmal. I don’t want to put the blame onto one person because that is usually a cop out, but our coach is a dud. He’s a nice guy but nothing gives me confidence that he knows what he is doing.

Big red flags were raised – I presume for most of us – when he admitted that he thought it was a good idea to let our players take responsibility for their own preseasons last year. I still don’t understand how a man who was senior coach for 5 years and assistant to Clarkson for another 6 decides that is a good idea.

Then there was some of his comments after our win last week, where he wanted people to say “well done” and praise us. This is after he himself attacked the playing group after the Bulldogs thrashing. Suddenly, after crawling past the struggling Eagles and Hawks, all is good to him. No wonder our players seemingly take things so easy.

He also doesn’t seem to have learnt after what he did to Josh Battle? Battle dominated the back line when Ratten was St Kilda’s head assistant coach. So what does Brett do when he comes head coach? Decides Josh needs to play on the wing and become a swingman. Bereft of confidence, Josh almost leaves St Kilda.

Last year we had Cooper Sharman come in and impress as a forward. Might be an exaggeration, but it was the first time in years that a young St Kilda debutant showed not just potential but actual output. Skip to Round 18 2022 and Cooper Sharman is playing his first game as key defender after one week in the VFL. Surely he has received specialized training and not been thrown to the wolves? Nope. Ratten encouraged him to “trust his instincts” and to learn “on the fly”, as per the propaganda piece on saints.com.au. Wow. Maybe I should be senior coach. In spite of all this ‘coaching’, Sharman actually plays well as a backman. What next? Round 21 2022 and Sharman is tossed between ruck, key forward and key defense mercilessly as we get belted.

At this point Ratten must be trolling us because, in the same match, he decides Josh Battle is a swingman again. This comes a few days after Battle is re-signed and can no longer leave. Somehow after almost destroying Battle’s career, he not only not learnt from his mistake but decided to double down…

I’m sorry about the rant but I’ve honestly had no faith in the man since about the middle of last year. He just has no idea and I worry that having him on board means we’re going to waste 2023 too.
* every time I blinked Sharman was in a different position the poor bloke. Battle too


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973373Post Teflon »

Sanctorum wrote: Sun 07 Aug 2022 2:34pm Exactly, in all of the games St Kilda has lost this year the sub-standard level of kicking has been a major factor. Last night Kingmarked the ball on the wing and in a brain fade hit it straight on the chest of a Geelong defender with not a Saints player within 5 metres - talk about coach killers! These stuff-ups have been about the only consistent thing the team has done this year :cry:

It really comes down to the critical lack of quality players on the list.

The way Geelong came out after half time to knock the Saints out of the contest was awesome but oh so hard to watch. It once again demonstrated how far off the pace St Kilda's is this year.

It would be interesting to know how the players themselves account for the huge slump in the performance of the team after the bye round when they were sitting 4th on the ladder having won 8 from 11 games. To put it down simply to poor game plan or lousy coaching seems illogical to me.
I’ll add 1 more to this
Who was it that when they took over senior coaching at saints said
“If you can’t kick you don’t play”
Brett Ratten
Dismal failure 3 years in
Gone backwards every year
Given 2 year extension
Only at Saints


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Re: Same old story - can't kick well enough

Post: # 1973383Post Teflon »

This interesting from bf not a bad idea

We should seriously look at Rath. I have heard that three different players have expressed concerns with our game plan. One is one of our best players.
?"

To me you have David Noble who literally turned the Lions from one of the worst sides in footy, lost in the wilderness for years and made them a pro club. He's sitting there available and a club like us would never usually get access to such a highly rated operator. Chuck him in as director of footy ops.


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